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Mind Phantom

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Reply with quote  #1 
Hello,

Please list your favorite " old school " & " new school " Mentalists. And oh, you don't have to be a mentalist to do this.

Old School // Kreskin, Richard Osterlind, Orson Welles.

New School// Derren Brown, Jerome Finley, EE, Kenton Knepper

Or, which do you prefer ?

Logan,
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Anthony Vinson

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Reply with quote  #2 
I like both. If it's entertaining, I approve. I loved Kreskin and love Derren Brown.
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Waterman

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Reply with quote  #3 
Several family and friends (all muggles) recently attended a local magic show..."Old School" mentalist Richard Osterlind had them convinced that mind reading is a reality!
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Robin Dawes

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Reply with quote  #4 
I have to confess to not perceiving the distinction between Old School and New School Mentalism.  Can you give examples that characterize the two schools?
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EVILDAN

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Reply with quote  #5 
Yeah, I haven't answered because I'm not sure what defines either school.
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Mind Phantom

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Reply with quote  #6 
Old school would be ;

Billets~
ESP cards~
Q & A~
Book Tests~
Props i.e Mental Epic and such~
Things that are in 13 Steps~
Psychic Revelations~

New school would be ;

NLP~
Reading body language~
Reading poker tells~
How to tell if someone is lying~
All the things that Derren Brown does~
how to control others thoughts and actions~

This is just my take on Old vs New School, I am sure others will have their opinions on this.

I am very much old school btw.

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EVILDAN

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Reply with quote  #7 
And what time frame would you give for the start of New School?
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Mind Phantom

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Reply with quote  #8 
Humm..I don't know. Whenever this whole body language/NLP started to show up in people's routines, maybe late 90's ?

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Anthony Vinson

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Reply with quote  #9 
Not certain about your demarcation, Logan. Didn't Kreskin use body language when he had his check hidden somewhere in the auditorium and was paid only if he was "led" to it? And didn't Geller "control" thoughts and actions with some of his automatic writing routines?

For me what you appear to refer to as old school, not that I agree with the term, was lower key and less spectacular than some of today's performances. Derren Brown is certainly more dynamic than Kreskin or Geller or, even say, Banachek. Luke Jermey is bolder, but only a a degree.

I think, like all art forms, mentalism has evolved to meet the needs and expectations of the audience. Today's performers have to be hipper and more dynamic to stand out. Just my thoughts. I'm open to others.

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Mind Phantom

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Reply with quote  #10 
Maybe there are better terms out there than " old & new school ". I just thought that this was something we all took for granted.

Learn something new everyday.

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Nathan_himself

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Reply with quote  #11 
I always feel like I'm one of the younger guys here. So when I hear old school, I think of classical mentalism techniques. I think of pocket writing, billet switches, and slate work (mental epic).

I think the old school is so valuable to get the fundamentals. They are so useful. That being said, there is a lot of disadvantages.

New school makes me think of bold, propless, and sometimes unreliable methods. They allow more freedom, but lose the ability to be 100%.

At least, that is my interpretation of "new school".

Personally, I draw inspiration from both sides. I use close up spirit slates after watching Bob Cassidy. But I also do routines from Fraser Parker and his propless name guess.

Here is a short list of mentalist that inspire me: Kenton Knepper, Pablo Amira, Richard Osterlind, Max Maven, Peter Turner, Red Devil, Jerome Finley, Luke Jermay, and Banachek.

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Mind Phantom

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Reply with quote  #12 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nathan_himself
Here is a short list of mentalist that inspire me: Kenton Knepper, Pablo Amira, Richard Osterlind, Max Maven, Peter Turner, Red Devil, Jerome Finley, Luke Jermay, and Banachek.


That's a pretty good list of mentalist's there..I don't know who Pablo Amira is & Red Devil those guys must " new school " lol.

I am a big fan of Jerome Finley, do you know if he still posts at the Green Place ? He used to be on a couple of private mentalist's message boards that I was on as well. Jerome's posts were loaded with wisdom, wit and know-how.

It's too bad I couldn't purchase some of his e-books, I understand him asking prices like $350, $400 per book, I am sure coming from him it's worth it.

Do you have any of his ebooks ? I am interested in his Guardian Angel routine.

I totally wasn't into Max Maven when he first came out, but, Max has become more friendly then being aloof like he used to be. Richard Osterlind is great, and I like the rest of your picks.

Best,



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Nathan_himself

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Reply with quote  #13 
Pablo is a student of Kenton Knepper. His material is minimalistic and super powerful. He's someone I consider a friend and mentor. Pablo is a top notch guy. I can't speak more highly of him.

Red Devil is the pen name of a great thinker in our art. I wouldn't classify him new school, but he is a new name. His material is reliable, entertaining, and strong. I highly recommend Operation Gemini if you want something that looks like real mind reading.

I never was and never will be a member of the green place, so I don't know if he posts there.

I do know that Jerome went through a hardship a while back and was actually selling some of his books for a quarter of there original price. This upset some people, but I don't think that it's any of their business.

Unfortunately, I only own one of his books, but it changed how I view the art. Random Acts of Kindness is a fantastic little book on how to make our art meaningful. But I'm a huge fan of Jerome. I think the people that don't like him simply misunderstand the direction he wants to take the art.

I love Max Maven. I think he's a genius. One of my goals is to perform for him one day.

One name I left off of my list because I'm forgetful is Lewis Le Val. His material is seriously underrated. I'm a huge fan of his material.


Maybe one day I'll be on someone's list haha

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Mind Phantom

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Reply with quote  #14 
I am going to check out this Red Devil guy. Anybody who calls themselves Red Devil has got to be the goods ~

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DJ

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Reply with quote  #15 
Logan Five, I just received the Lybrary.com newsletter and it mentions Red Devil ebooks.  I'm assuming this is who Nathan_himself was referring to.  I wouldn't have thought anything about it but I remembered the name because of this thread.  Looks like this week will be the last week to get the ebooks.  Just thought I'd pass along the info in case you wanted to take a look.  Link below:

https://www.lybrary.com/reddevil-m-342489.html



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EVILDAN

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Reply with quote  #16 
Last day for RedDevil books is Feb 14th according to the newsletter.
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Mind Phantom

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Reply with quote  #17 
Thanks for the heads-up DJ, I'll check it out!
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MagicOrthodoxy

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Reply with quote  #18 
Old books and Old performers? That I understand .... but "old school?" I mean you watch / read anything from Peter Turner and this guy has built an entire "modern" mentalist career from Theodore Annemann. But in his work he always says "read the old stuff and then just adapt it to a modern audience."

Obviously we can't look through key holes anymore. But ... we can use security cameras and baby monitors. Same trick, same method ... new approach.

Ecclesiastes 1:9
What has been will be again, what has been done will be done again; there is nothing new under the sun.

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Jake07712

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Reply with quote  #19 
Reading this, I still don’t know what old school and new school is. There are mentalists of bygone years, and mentalists who have more updated acts, but each has to be taken in the context of when they performed. Dunninger, Kuda Bux, Myrus , were all up to date for their time, and I have no doubt would astound any audience today without changing their act too much, if at all. (I would have included Keskin in that list, but to me, he still is “today”)

By the way, method, (billets, pocket writing, etc,) does not make an act. The only thing that makes an act old or new is the routining and presentation.

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Paul Hallas

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Reply with quote  #20 
It was pretty much Derren that started all the NLP themed stuff and younger mentalists tried to follow suit.

Geller started the metal bending phase of mentalism (he wasn't the first to do it, but pretty much introduced it to the world at his height and inspired mentalists to come up with their own procedures to imitate him).

I don't think there's really a new style, just updated presentations.

Personally, I wouldn't want to see an act full of psychological stuff where on a bad night over 50% of the demonstrations might fail. 

Chan Canasta did a lot of 'risky' stuff too before what you might consider the 'modern' style.
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Jake07712

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Reply with quote  #21 
Paul, I saw Peter Hurkos do such an act in a nightclub in upstate NY. He was a 100% failure, and the act was awful. It was all pretty much cold readings without a single hit. However, he had a line of people waiting for him to get appointments for private readings, which was what he was primarily interested in.
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Mind Phantom

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Reply with quote  #22 
Great story Jake!

With my next open house event I am going to offer a palm reading to the people that come to my open house as a way of getting more people to my open house. I plan to door knock and hand out flyers.

I'll see what kind of traffic I get.

Logan,
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Jake07712

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Reply with quote  #23 
Logs, I was taught to do house parties by Bob Nelson when we met on vacation in Miami.
Fortune telling for Money was notlegal in my state, so I offered free readings for each one attending the ESP party. Someone always sponsored them in her home. The biggest problem was that you could only do a specific number of people before you fizzled out. The parties were in so much demand that I could work them every night if I wanted to.
One thing you should think about is a back of room sale. Book? Horoscope? I used horoscopes and would mail them out a few days later.

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Paul Hallas

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Reply with quote  #24 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jake07712

One thing you should think about is a back of room sale. Book? Horoscope? I used horoscopes and would mail them out a few days later.


Did you use the old Horoscope Charts that Nelson sold, Jake?
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Jake07712

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Reply with quote  #25 
Nelson sold a number of different charts. The one that I used was called “your Personal Horoscope”. It had a page for each month. I used a system from Jean Dixon’s book, Sun Signs. It was a system developed by Ray Norman. I don’t remember how It worked. I’m sure that the sheets available today look a lot better.
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Tom G

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Reply with quote  #26 
I'm not a mentalist, but I enjoyed old school.  Dunninger used to have a tv show and I watched that. His command and presence from being a stage magician added to his work.  While Kreskin is still out there, he's old school and still wowing the crowds.  I think the Dunninger show is on Netflix or Hulu.  Would probably come across as very dry now.  Would love to see some of the other names on film or video. 
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Jake07712

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Reply with quote  #27 
Dunninger was very dramatic, and if he presented his same act, without rewriting, it probably would not hold up today. I remember how everyone talked about his show the day after it aired. He was thoroughly believable. Btthe act that I most admired was Myrus. Held an audience for 90 minutes with not much more than 3X5 billets, a fishbowl, on a stand. He worked once a week at the Fountainblu (sp), and the some of the same people came week after week to see him.
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Paul Hallas

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Reply with quote  #28 
Now, you might consider this "old school" but reading the advertising might change your mind. There is ONE seat left on this 3 day master class.

http://www.richardbusch.com/teaching-master-class/


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ZAVIADELITA

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Reply with quote  #29 
I like old school The Busch peek is simply the best. Wish the seminar comming up was closer to me.
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