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KenTheriot

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Reply with quote  #1 
I have been working on the Aronson stack as my first memorized deck (never done memdeck work before). I'm using Harry Lorayne's card memory system and the mnemonic system in his books for this, which is what both Simon Aronson and Michael Close recommended too.

I was able to memorized the deck (remember, this is my first time trying this) in about 24 hours, just studying while not working - i.e., watching TV, etc.

Though you could sit me down at that point with a p;iece of paper, and I could write out the stack order, I couldn't immediately (like in 1 second) give you a position given a card, or vice-versa. THAT (even according to Aronson and Close) takes at least a couple of weeks. 

I made a deck of flash cards to help me bridge the gap and have been working with that daily. But last night I discovered something that really kicked things up a notch. It's an iOS app called the Aronson Stack Trainer, which turns this final process of learning each card and position COLD into a game!

It's terriffic fun and should (I'll report back tomorrow) super-charge this last phase for me. Oh, and BTW, I have absolutely no affiliation with whomever created the app. I just wanted to let others know about it.

Check it out in the app store. It's a paid app, but only a few bucks. 

Cheers!

Ken
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luigimar

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Reply with quote  #2 
Hi Ken, I don't know if you have seen this: It may help you when you're on your computer... and you can customize it...

http://www.stackview.com/download.html

I think it has been discussed here on the forum before...

I hope this helps.



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KenTheriot

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Reply with quote  #3 
Oh wow. Sheesh. I Just spent a goodly couple of hours creating my own sort of stack view thing with Photoshop. I figured having a graphic to look at would also be a good aid to learning a stack cold. Well, I suppose you can never have too many things to help. 

Thanks for this awesome resource, Luigimar. Though I just noticed it only works for PCs and not Macs:-P.

Ken
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luigimar

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Reply with quote  #4 
You are welcome Ken.

And yes, it is just for PCs...

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Mark Goldstein

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Reply with quote  #5 
There is also a Mnemonica Stack Trainer App and a General Stack Trainer app which allows you to load your own stack or stacks into the trainer. They are all by the same developer. The Aronson and Menomica ones are pre set without the ability to change the assigned order but otherwise they are all the same. And yes it is an addicting game.

The same developer has also released a similiar app which allow you to set any relational pair ( peg system, etc ) up to allow for a memory trainer of any list you wish. So anagrams, two person act codes, etc.
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Mark Goldstein

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Reply with quote  #6 
The Aronson Stack Trainer by Samuel Gherman
https://appsto.re/us/BHWY6.i

Learn Mnemonica: The Ultimate Mnemonica Trainer by Samuel Gherman
https://appsto.re/us/1Qvq6.i

He also bundles Aronson and Mnemonica together

The Ultimate Memorized Deck Trainer Bundle by Samuel Gherman
https://appsto.re/us/9wXr-.i

This is the assignable one

The Ultimate Stack Trainer by Samuel Gherman
https://appsto.re/us/S6IPab.i

And this is the memory system trainer

Ultimate Major System Trainer by Samuel Gherman
https://appsto.re/us/1dIlbb.i

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Rudy Tinoco

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Reply with quote  #7 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Goldstein


Learn Mnemonica: The Ultimate Mnemonica Trainer by Samuel Gherman
https://appsto.re/us/1Qvq6.i



I just bought this and really like it!

Kinda wish that it had some sounds, but otherwise fantastic!

Thanks for mentioning this [smile]

Rudy

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MatthewOlsen

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Reply with quote  #8 
I haven't used a memdeck in a while so I'm a bit rusty but I originally got the stack down cold by creating a solitaire game.  It's a simple thing where when you deal out the deck you just have two or three face down cards in each stack and instead of organizing according to card value I would do it according to the stack numbers.  Playing that for a while really got me associating the stack numbers with the cards really quick and improved my speed recalling the cards.  It helped me over the hump of transitioning from the mnemonic to recalling the numbers without the intermediate step.
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Claudio

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Reply with quote  #9 
If you have an android device you could use this free app (and ads free too) : MemDeckPro. It comes configured with a few stacks (Aronson, Mnemonica etc.) and switching between them is easy.
You can add your own stack if you wish to.
It has visual and audio training.
You can add mnemonics to your stack and practice them.
You can use your own language - default's English.
And many more settings.
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Tom G

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Reply with quote  #10 
MemDeckPro is definitely worth looking into, Claudio did a great job with it.
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Claudio

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Reply with quote  #11 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom G
MemDeckPro is definitely worth looking into, Claudio did a great job with it.


Thanks Tom. You were one of the very first people to use the app. Nearly 800 magicians now use it. Very modest number in the large scheme of Android apps, but quite respectable if you think how tiny the memdeck market is [smile]
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Joey Ace

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Reply with quote  #12 
I've used Mnemonica. Recommended. $3
It's nice to have something I can use to practice without drawing attention while I'm waiting for an appointment or whatever.
Folks think I'm texting.
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John.W.Stevens

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Reply with quote  #13 
Thank you for the above links.  These all look to be quite helpful!

John
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alexandercrawford

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Reply with quote  #14 
My hope is that readers on this forum won't spend too long worrying about which way to learn the stack. My fear is that for most people that's a way to procrastinate and avoid actually getting down to doing it.

I don't really get why so many magicians seem to fear learning a stack as it's really not that difficult. To put it into context:

- it takes WAY less time than learning to do a good double lift
- the amount of information (and difficulty in remembering it) is not much different from the moves in 2 or 3 multi-phase routines

As a return on investment:

- it allows for incredibly powerful magic, particularly if you have switched in a stacked deck late in a set
- it impresses magicians (unaccountably so as noted above) - we may pretend this isn't important to us, but....
- if well disguised it fools magicians also (clearly depends on the trick here) - again shouldn't matter to us, but...
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Harry Lorayne

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Reply with quote  #15 
        All "accordingly" ... since I never carry my own deck - doesn't work for me. Not a problem --- I've written about this a few times...decades ago, when I wanted to bother, I'd excuse myself to go to the bathroom, casually take the shuffled deck in use with me - and memorize it in a couple of minutes. Yes; that's what I teach and have taught in my books for a few decades.

        I haven't bothered for decades because the stuff I do "impromptuly" and that I've taught in my magic books for decades is as strong as any memdeck effect IF NOT STRONGER. I'm not putting down memdeck stuff - just...to each his own.
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Blathermist

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Reply with quote  #16 

I have nothing whatsoever against memdecks, they’re simply not for me.

I do use Stebbins from time to time. When strolling I have a Stebbinised pack as a spare and when (I mean if) the occasion arises, I switch it for the regular pack-in-use. Then switch it it out again. More often than not, conditions mitigate against its use. So I don’t bother.

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Blathermist

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Reply with quote  #17 

For What It’s Worth Department

Who Said This?

"My advice at this point would be to read no further, to throw this book away and to start practicing and working out your patter, subtleties and presentation for this miraculous routine."

It sounds like the sort of comment a reviewer might make. "If you get nothing else out of this book, then you’ve got your money’s worth." Or possibly, "This routine is worth the price of the book."

Anyway, in this particular "miraculous routine" the magician has a card selected and then names it. Familiar? Of course. Standard procedure. Any deck, anytime, anywhere.

Similarly it will also work with any stack, memdeck of otherwise. Si Stebbins and Eight-Kings for example.

Miraculous? Well, perhaps, or maybe not quite, but given the respect it deserves this simple revelation is very powerful.

During the few years I’ve been drifting on the fringes of Magicdom I discovered that this simple act of having a card selected, learning its identity in any one of umpteen ways and then simply revealing the card could actually be very strong. Of course a bit of brow-furrowing and similar add to the effect, but the general concept remains strong.

Relevance? Who’s to say. Anyway, this "throw this book away" remark is not a comment by a reviewer or a critic, but by the author of the book in question.

Almost forgot….Some memory. It appears on page 81 of the Juan Tamariz book, Mnemonica.

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alexandercrawford

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Reply with quote  #18 
Quote:
when I wanted to bother, I'd excuse myself to go to the bathroom, casually take the shuffled deck in use with me - and memorize it in a couple of minutes.


Deeply impressive (and beyond me to do reliably), but I'm not sure once you've got the deck in the bathroom alone, there's any difference in effect (or visible method) in re-stacking it to a pre-memorised order vs secretly memorising a shuffled deck in use(ish).

I agree completely with Harry however that impromptu magic can be extremely strong (and its impromptu nature in some ways gives it an inherent advantage over using a memorised deck magic).

I just think that the mem deck is a powerful tool underused by many (albeit also over-adulated by others). There was great magic done with "classic" tools such as the top change vs more "modern" tools such as the double lift, but that doesn't mean the double lift should be abandoned.



PS Somewhat nervous about this post, since the last time I commented on the fact of what worked for me with memorising a deck, I got blasted (in a manner reminiscent of the sorts of magic forums I try to avoid) with the opinion that I was wrong (it seems unlikely that anybody else would know what worked for me better than me) and that it wouldn't sell any books (which I hadn't been trying to do). Ah well ... must get a thicker skin!

PPS and I am fully aware that memorising a deck is in no way modern!
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