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KenTheriot

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I am having a lot of trouble doing a top palm. I am trying to follow the instructions in Card College 2. But I'm still not getting it.

Does anyone else have suggestions for someone like me who doesn't seem to be picking up on this?

I have unusually large hands and long fingers. Not sure if that is a factor or not.

Thanks!

Ken
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MorrisCH

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Reply with quote  #2 
for video source - I highly recommend Bob White Practical card palming
for book source - you cannot go wrong with Vernon Topping the deck, which can be found at Dai vernon book of magic
I'm also a big fan of Ron Bauer's Riffle palm, but I will suggest familiar yourself with palming method  before trying riffle palm
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Chi Han

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Reply with quote  #3 
Can I ask is there anything in particular you are having trouble with?  Is it holding the card once you've palmed it?  Is it speed?  Is it angles?  Some of these things really do just require a lot of practice and self adjustment.  If you can pinpoint your problem, I might be able to offer specific advice or pointers.  But honestly, a lot of practice should not be underestimated.
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KenTheriot

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Reply with quote  #4 
Thanks Morris! I've noted all that down.

ScreenguardGuy - Once it's palmed, I'm fine. the large hands are a boon in this area. And I know the correct hold. It's the process of getting it into position that I just can't seem to get. As a coin guy, I am quite familiar with how much practice a move can require. I'm not saying I've put 1,000 hours of practice in on this (like I have with a few coin things), but I've put in enough to know that I'm missing something somewhere somehow.

It goes wrong in so many ways. Yes, angles are a part of it. Sometimes it goes to far over to the right and flashes out that side (palming with the right hand). Sometimes it doesn't go far ENOUGH to the right, so it flashes on the left side of my hand. Sometimes it doesn't arch high enough. Speed is also part of it I guess. but I can't even do it reliably when I go very slow.

That's why I'm looking for different explanations and different methods. I'm thinking that if I try many, something will work better than something else. 

I just downloaded a couple of videos - one by Steven Youell on the Erdnase Palm and one by Allan Ackerman on the Vernon top Palm. I'll also check out Morris' suggestions.

Thanks again!

Ken
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Chi Han

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Reply with quote  #5 
I really hope I'm not stepping on any toes, but to be honest, a lot of those problems could just be issues with practice.  Developing a comfortable 'rhythm', as opposed to speed really helps with the palm, and a familiarity with how much strength to use and what parts of the card should be moving really help.

That said, Jason England does a video on palming which I feel is probably the best instruction out there on a lot of standard palms.  Brian Brushwood also shows a lot of easy ways to palm a card.  Steve Valentine has a fantastic series all about card to wallet effects and he covers the palm in detail.  I use a combination of all of these depending on the situation to top palm.  There are also a lot of small details that make it much stronger when you are more comfortable with palming, Bill Malone often talks a lot about small subtleties used by Bob Stencel, doing things like holding the cards sideways when palming, and of course always doing the palm on the offbeat.  (I do occasionally palm on the on beat, but in those scenarios I direct attention to the opposite hand e.g. doing a top palm when palming from the bottom.)
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Jdip

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Reply with quote  #6 
Maybe try a one handed top palm?? 
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damianjennings

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Reply with quote  #7 
I agree with the topping the deck recommendations.
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mark lewis

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Reply with quote  #8 

The best source to learn the palm is The Royal Road to Card Magic. This is a very important and useful sleight in card magic and I do it all the time. One thing I have noticed about hot shot technicians who do all the fancy moves is that they can rarely do certain fundamental moves which require nerve and sang-froid rather than technical skill. For example they can do second deals, buckle counts etc; but they can't do things like palming, classic forcing and the top change which require a certain mental audacity which they don't seem to possess because they are concentrating so much on introverted card moves.

Another very good source indeed is a little book by Dai Vernon-one of the few he actually wrote himself about his own magic- and that is Select Secrets under the title "Topping the Deck". The explanation is very similar to that in the Royal Road. The key thing is to imagine there is a diagonal wire across the card from the little finger to the heel of the hand.

I would get away from all those videos. They are not a good way to learn. Read the description in the Royal Road.

Uh, oh. I have just seen that "Topping the Deck" has already been referred to by MorrissCH. The only thing I would add to that is that the sleight is not mentioned in the Dai Vernon Book of Magic but in the much slimmer book that Vernon wrote himself called "Select Secrets".

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magicfish

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Reply with quote  #9 
Expert Card Technique by Hugard and Braue.
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Harry Lorayne

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Reply with quote  #10 
     All good suggestions above, and you might even check out my books, APOCALYPSE, etc., wherein I've taught a few palming methods. Like my One-Hand Top Card Palm method in the Rim Shots section of LORAYNE: THE CLASSIC COLLECTION, Vol. 2.
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damianjennings

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Reply with quote  #11 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mark lewis
The best source to learn the palm is The Royal Road to Card Magic.

There's not really a "best" source. What works for some may not work for others. "Best" is a bit Magic Cafe...

Quote:
Originally Posted by mark lewis

Uh, oh. I have just seen that "Topping the Deck" has already been referred to by MorrissCH. The only thing I would add to that is that the sleight is not mentioned in the Dai Vernon Book of Magic but in the much slimmer book that Vernon wrote himself called "Select Secrets".

Vernon's top palm is also in Ganson's Dai Vernon's Further Inner Secrets of Card Magic (1961 pp.35-38), Giobbi's Card College (1996, pp. 273-275) and Revelation (2008 pp. 297-301). 


Lots of other sources here:

http://geniimagazine.com/magicpedia/Top_Palm
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mark lewis

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Reply with quote  #12 

Quote:
Originally Posted by KenTheriot
I am having a lot of trouble doing a top palm. I am trying to follow the instructions in Card College 2. But I'm still not getting it.

Does anyone else have suggestions for someone like me who doesn't seem to be picking up on this?

I have unusually large hands and long fingers. Not sure if that is a factor or not.

Thanks!

Ken

 

Ken. Just look at the Royal Road to Card Magic. It has the most detailed and thorough explanation of the top palm I have ever read. Large hands should actually be an advantage although it is by no means essential. Nate Leipzig had unusually large hands. Max Malini on the other hand (no pun intended) had very tiny hands.

However, it is the mental aspect of palming that is the most important thing. A lot of people feel self conscious that they have the evidence in their hands and they want to get rid of it as soon as possible. Take your time with it and completely relax once it is in your hand. Practice this mental attitude by having the card palmed in your hand at odd times of the day when  you watching TV or reading. Once you get used to it there you won't blink an eye when you are in front of an audience. There are tricks using palming in the Royal Road to Card Magic which have the misdirection built in and I would consider starting with those as it will build your confidence with the move.

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KenTheriot

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Reply with quote  #13 
Wow, thanks for all the incredible help on this! And Mark, thank you for pointing out Royal Road, since I already have that (but have not been all the way through it yet, obviously. Oh and you win post of the day for using "sangfroid" in your description[smile]. Perfect word for what you are describing!

I also picked up further Inner Secrets which has Topping The Deck in it.

Thanks again for all the tips!

Ken

 
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Rudy Tinoco

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Reply with quote  #14 
Quote:
Originally Posted by KenTheriot
Wow, thanks for all the incredible help on this! And Mark, thank you for pointing out Royal Road, since I already have that (but have not been all the way through it yet, obviously. Oh and you win post of the day for using "sangfroid" in your description[smile]. Perfect word for what you are describing!

I also picked up further Inner Secrets which has Topping The Deck in it.

Thanks again for all the tips!

Ken

 


Hi Ken, be sure to go over to the Session Room. Damian made a video for you to try and help you out. It's really cool!

Rudy

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KenTheriot

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Reply with quote  #15 
Oh awesome! I'll go right away.

Thanks!

Ken
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Yekrats

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Reply with quote  #16 
I tried learning by all of the methods mentioned above... for weeks, months. I kept having problems with the card kicking out to the side. Every. Single. Time.

Then I tried Glen Morphew's One Hand Top Palm technique, which is a little different than anything I'd seen before, and I was able to do finally do it almost immediately. It's well worth the download.


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AlexStrand

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Reply with quote  #17 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yekrats`
I tried learning by all of the methods mentioned above... for weeks, months. I kept having problems with the card kicking out to the side. Every. Single. Time.

Then I tried Glen Morphew's One Hand Top Palm technique, which is a little different than anything I'd seen before, and I was able to do finally do it almost immediately. It's well worth the download.




I love watching this video. It is fun to be amazed by technique, even when you know exactly what is going to happen.

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KenTheriot

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Reply with quote  #18 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yekrats`
I tried learning by all of the methods mentioned above... for weeks, months. I kept having problems with the card kicking out to the side. Every. Single. Time.

Then I tried Glen Morphew's One Hand Top Palm technique, which is a little different than anything I'd seen before, and I was able to do finally do it almost immediately. It's well worth the download.




Thanks so much! I will do that for sure,

I love this site and its design! I have a teaching site for audio recording and will use some of the layout ideas from here. 

Ken
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Harry Lorayne

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Reply with quote  #19 
    Okay; gotta' leave it to you guys. But just a quick mention - I already mentioned (in this thread) my One-Hand Palm Method - now, when you're there(!) check the very next item (A Top Palm) - I've "taken in" magicians all over the world with it.
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mark lewis

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Reply with quote  #20 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Harry Lorayne
     All good suggestions above, and you might even check out my books, APOCALYPSE, etc., wherein I've taught a few palming methods. Like my One-Hand Top Card Palm method in the Rim Shots section of LORAYNE: THE CLASSIC COLLECTION, Vol. 2.

Indeed. However I have been remiss in not mentioning that Harry has a couple of very good descriptions of two different methods on page 58 of The Magic Book. I completely forgot about that.

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Barrett S

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Reply with quote  #21 
I just have to put in a strong second for Glenn Morphew's method. He has an ability to explain which I find a pleasure to follow. This is a OHTP that I find uncanny in what it does.
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luvisi

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Reply with quote  #22 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MorrisCH
for book source - you cannot go wrong with Vernon Topping the deck, which can be found at Dai vernon book of magic


To save anyone the trouble of looking in the wrong place (or buying the wrong book), Topping the Deck is NOT in The Dai Vernon Book of Magic.  As mentioned elsewhere, it is in Select Secrets and Further Inner Secrets of Card Magic (reprinted in Dai Vernon's Inner Card Trilogy), but it is NOT in The Dai Vernon Book of Magic.
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bennie

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Reply with quote  #23 
Just wondering, just watched Palming By Design by Steven Youell. He suggest a one handed top palm is not a good palm because of the finger movement, I thought you dropped the hand by your side to do the palm so no can see any movement of the hand when the palm is performed.
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magicfish

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Reply with quote  #24 
Carneycopia- Minch.
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KenTheriot

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Reply with quote  #25 
Awesome! I just picked that up a couple of weeks ago to learn Cylinder and Coins.
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Barden

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Reply with quote  #26 
I don't think anyone has mentioned Mike Close and his work on palming. He has three ebooks available with each focusing on different palming techniques. I have not seen these myself, just heard good things about them.
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ianmcrawford

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Reply with quote  #27 
Barden mentions the Michael Close books.  Personally, I believe these are EXCELLENT resources to learn all aspects of palming.  They are ebooks, with embedded video.  As with all Michael's work,  the writing is clear and he takes a methodical approach to teaching.

Highly recommended.
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Mike Powers

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Reply with quote  #28 
Another vote for Glenn Morphew's video. Glenn lectured at the Magic Pebble convention last May. Excellent technique.

Mike
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Pinhead52

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Reply with quote  #29 
I want to add a vote to the importance of a good one hand top palm, and the reason is this; you can get away with a much sloppier one hand than two hands, because that other hand can be doing anything in the mean time. Think of it, if you do a OHTP while handing the deck to someone, maybe to shuffle themselves before putting "their card" into it, while your other hand is gesturing in another direction, while you explain anything. It's the only way I palm cards, and just like in the video, it's the only palm you need if you know it's versatility.
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