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MagicRich2019

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Reply with quote  #1 
Hi all, I've just started practicing this trick. I like it, but is there a better way to end this trick than just showing all the cards are different?

... And ideas?

Thanks in advance

Rich
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Mike Powers

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Reply with quote  #2 
I think you have to palm out the extra card and end with a set of examinable cards. It's a really excellent trick. But I think you have to end with examinable cards. Unfortunately that mean palming one out.

Mike
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MagicRich2019

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Reply with quote  #3 
Mike,thanks for the quick reply. Yes I agree I really want to end clean. What I've been doing is putting the cards back on the deck where DB  is facing up blue and then meet an excuse to deal the Qs on the table and have a spectator guess which one was the red one and which one was the blue one and then when you turn them all over there different, something like thatRich
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Waterman

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Reply with quote  #4 
I love this packet trick! Until reading this thread the thought has never occurred to me that I should hand out the cards for examination after I'm done performing it! 
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Mike Powers

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One of the tricks that got me into magic is Ronay's Sympathetic Cards (or Sympathetic Aces?). At the end, all the cards have different colored backs that seem to have come our of nowhere. I'll never forget the feeling when the demo guy left the cards sitting there and walked away. I was dying to examine them and then I could! They were normal and that fact doubled the feeling of magic. People know that there are "tricky cards" and "Tricky decks." I hate having to put the cards away when they've done incredible things. My Diminishing Returns deck suffers from that problem. I like to switch it in after a normal deck has been in use and shuffled etc. Then there's less heat on the cards. One of the great things about the original Micro Macro is that you can clean up by removing one card. And you can do it openly with a joker as the gaff.

The routine I did with DR at the Magic Castle does end clean. 

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markd2990

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Reply with quote  #6 
Quote:
I think you have to palm out the extra card and end with a set of examinable cards. It's a really excellent trick. But I think you have to end with examinable cards. Unfortunately that mean palming one out.


I never have the spectators ask if they can see the cards. I think there's so much magic that happens throughout and then at the end, it's just too much for them and they give up. I have a slightly different ending that I think keeps them from wanting to ask. Literally have performed this over 1000 times and not once have I been asked. This has been a staple of mine for 20+ years and I love it!

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Wayne T

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Reply with quote  #7 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MagicRich2019
Hi all, I've just started practicing this trick. I like it, but is there a better way to end this trick than just showing all the cards are different?

... And ideas?

Thanks in advance

Rich


If you really want to "end clean" check out Jim Swain's performance on his Magic Of Jim Swain, in variation to Mike's suggestion of a palm, he does a Vernon Transfer placing the double backer on top of his deck (obviously it has to match the deck).

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MagicRich2019

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Wayne,. Yes that is what I do.
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Wayne T

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Reply with quote  #9 
Dang sorry I didn't see that, I got ahead of myself remembering Swain's performance, I should have read this thread more thoroughly instead of scanning it. 
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MagicRich2019

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Reply with quote  #10 
WayneNo worries.I'm trying to find an excuse to put the packet on top of the deck and then deal them out again for the spectator to examine.Rich
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Mike Powers

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Reply with quote  #11 
I think the Vernon Transfer is better than putting the packet on the deck. You'd definitely need a reason to put the packet on the deck. Maybe to show the contrast of the backs with the deck??

Above, I mentioned the feeling I had at Tannen's years ago when I did examine the cards from a routine in which the backs changed. People are polite and don't want to mess up your show. Look at Bannon's idea of "fractal." I don't really understand the application of the term "fractal" to card tricks where the cards are examinable at the end. But clearly he values ending clean with cards that have done really crazy stuff like changed color and so on.

I once did a color changing deck routine for a table of engineers. I later handed the deck out to be shuffled. The guy took time to examine individual cards and then said, "Is that change of color chemical??" He definitely wanted to check out the cards.

Just because people are polite and don't say, "Let me see those cards" doesn't mean that they wouldn't like to see them. I think that often they just assume that the cards are tricky. i want to show them that they're not.

As a general rule, I am trying to close EVERY door to an explanation. "Tricky cards" is left wide open if they don't handle the cards.

Mike
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Anthony Vinson

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Reply with quote  #12 
Quote:
Originally Posted by markd2990


I never have the spectators ask if they can see the cards. I think there's so much magic that happens throughout and then at the end, it's just too much for them and they give up. I have a slightly different ending that I think keeps them from wanting to ask. Literally have performed this over 1000 times and not once have I been asked. This has been a staple of mine for 20+ years and I love it!


Nice job! Smooth and entertaining. Thanks for sharing.

I did the trick for a while, but not in some time, and like both you and Dan, I never handed the cards out for examination. Never saw the need. At the same time I can understand the desire.

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StevePR104

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Reply with quote  #13 
I think handing out the cards at the end is the absolute icing on the cake.  It takes the effect to an entirely different level.  And like doing a top change, palming off the DB is just something you go and do.  99.5% of the people for whom you do this effect will be looking at the different backs of the four cards they're handed.

The other 0.5% are magicians.
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Bmat

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Reply with quote  #14 
I've never even thought to hand any cards out after an effect.  And I've never been asked by anyone if they can see the cards. I'm not saying this is a good or bad thing.  I'm just saying the issue has never come up. 
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Mike Powers

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Reply with quote  #15 
If the cards have done wild stuff like change color or size and I am able to hand them out, I will always do it. They're likely NOT to ask. I want them to KNOW that the cards aren't the source of the magic - I am. 

I can remember asking someone to shuffle the cards. Before shuffling the guy removed a card, rotated 180, put it back in and felt for a bulge. He was checking to see if it was a stripper deck. Of course the thought of "wonder if that's a stripper deck" is going to be rare, because the concept is not well known. But the incident reminded me that people are largely aware of the existence of "tricky" cards. They might not have any idea of how they're tricked up. But they know they exist and they'll likely entertain the thought that you're using them. Handing things out e.g. please shuffle these etc. undermines this sort of thinking. We do have to be careful not to slow the show down with too much "examine this.." But often examination can be built into the presentation.

With tricks like Capitulating Queens, I would do the work to make the cards examinable and hand them out with a line like "Check this out - the colors don't rub off!" It's worth ten seconds to kill any "must be tricky cards" thinking.

I have given decks away a number of times when I either thought someone felt that the "magic was in the cards" or they verbalized something about tricky cards. 

I'm not saying everyone needs to do this. But I'm making the case that it might be a good idea.

Mike
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Intensely Magic

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Reply with quote  #16 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Powers
If the cards have done wild stuff like change color or size and I am able to hand them out, I will always do it. They're likely NOT to ask. I want them to KNOW that the cards aren't the source of the magic - I am. 

I can remember asking someone to shuffle the cards. Before shuffling the guy removed a card, rotated 180, put it back in and felt for a bulge. He was checking to see if it was a stripper deck. Of course the thought of "wonder if that's a stripper deck" is going to be rare, because the concept is not well known. But the incident reminded me that people are largely aware of the existence of "tricky" cards. They might not have any idea of how they're tricked up. But they know they exist and they'll likely entertain the thought that you're using them. Handing things out e.g. please shuffle these etc. undermines this sort of thinking. We do have to be careful not to slow the show down with too much "examine this.." But often examination can be built into the presentation.

With tricks like Capitulating Queens, I would do the work to make the cards examinable and hand them out with a line like "Check this out - the colors don't rub off!" It's worth ten seconds to kill any "must be tricky cards" thinking.

I have given decks away a number of times when I either thought someone felt that the "magic was in the cards" or they verbalized something about tricky cards. 

I'm not saying everyone needs to do this. But I'm making the case that it might be a good idea.

Mike


Mike, you've hit on one of my favorite subjects - how we fool intelligent audiences much less than we want to believe (idiots are another matter).

I've long believed there's a palpable stench in the air when a trick ends dirty and no amount of "audience management" etc. can fully eradicate it.

Ironically, the "freedom" that is felt when you are clean seems to make the desire to handle the props much less. There's a real difference of nonchalantly setting a Rubik's Cube on the table and quickly putting a gimmicked cube in your bag.

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MagicRich2019

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Reply with quote  #17 
Thank you all for your fantastic responses.
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Anthony Vinson

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Reply with quote  #18 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Intensely Magic
Mike, you've hit on one of my favorite subjects - how we fool intelligent audiences much less than we want to believe (idiots are another matter).

I've long believed there's a palpable stench in the air when a trick ends dirty and no amount of "audience management" etc. can fully eradicate it.


At the expense of hijacking this thread - and we won't do that - I heartily disagree.

Some magicians work far too hard for the privilege of proving they're not using anything tricky. While the dynamic may well be different for a working pro, and I would concede having no experience as such, I think it matters little for most of us. Even when I could hand out cards for examination, I usually do not. Why? Specialized cards, even cards with odd backs, are expensive to replace. As an amateur and hobbyist, I prefer to simply decline. Now, I do so with a humorous comment designed to alleviate any situational stress, but still I do so. 

An intelligent audience, upon witnessing a packet trick like The Capitulating Queens, for instance, instinctively knows that there's more than meets the eye. They may not know exactly what, but they know.

We are tricksters. We use tricky things, including kooky cards and silly-looking hankies with secret pockets, and plastic appendages. It's all about the effect. Once the effect is over, it is over. And yes, I realize that some tricks are constructed to be examinable, but to me those are in a different category. 

To reiterate, I speak as amateur and hobbyist. Pros' needs are different, and I am in no position to speak to what those might be.

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Dave Campbell

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Reply with quote  #19 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Waterman
I love this packet trick! Until reading this thread the thought has never occurred to me that I should hand out the cards for examination after I'm done performing it! 


I'm with you on this Waterman --- I hesitate to guess how many times I've done this trick and it just didn't quite click--

So I hope you're all happy that you've ruined this for me and now I have to use this to practice my palming! (a-la Michael Close's latest excellent webinar)!  [biggrin]

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