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Rudy Tinoco

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Reply with quote  #1 
Hi Fellas,

I've heard some good things over at the Cafe about the Redford stack.

One of the things that I don't like about the Tamariz stack is how clunky it is to get in NDO.
I'm considering changing to the Redford stack. Have any of you taken a look at it?

Rudy

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Mike Powers

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Reply with quote  #2 
I went through the new book carefully in order to write the forward for Patrick. He's posted on this site. I'd go directly to the source.

What I like is the ability to get to Stebbins from new deck and then through a series of overhand shuffles, to Redford stack. The cool thing is you can get back to Stebbins with exactly the same sequence of shuffles. Also you can get to Stay stack as well. There's a bunch of built in items like poker deals too. Talk to Patrick.

Mike
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Harry Lorayne

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Reply with quote  #3 
   Hey Rudy: Have you been receiving my emails? H.
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luigimar

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Reply with quote  #4 
Rudy,

I have had Patrick's book for about a month and a half and I've been practicing setting up the deck from new deck order, to Si Stebbins to Redford Stack (RS) back and forth. I still haven't memorized it but I am working on it. Nevertheless I can already do some effects from the book that do not require the order to be memorized and I have had some great results. 

This is what I wrote in the secret Facebook group dedicated to the RS about my experience, about 3 weeks ago: 

This weekend I was with a friend (a magician) and I had my deck handy so I took it out of its case and it was already in RS. I started shuffling the deck and then I did KING ME. It killed him. 2 more shuffles and I showed him the KM Poker deal (another effect in the book). His face was WTH?! One more shuffle and I was back in RS. I then did the sequence to go back to Si Stebbins and then I dealt 4 hands of 13 cards. We were talking while I was doing this and when I showed him the 4 hands with the cards (almost) in sequence, all the clubs together, hearts together, spades together and diamonds together, he was knocked out! It was a nice sequence that I did in an "impromptu" kind of way. I showed him the "shuffled deck" while it was in RD order so he was surprised to see the deck in (almost) new deck order at the end. I had to move some cards from beginning to end to have the cards in sequence but it was a nice way to finish an "impromptu" routine. I will keep practicing this so I can do the needed sequences (The Si Stebbins secret and the shuffle sequence to get into RS) without having to stop talking while I am counting the cards. I still need to memorize the stack but I am getting there.

I have had all Aronson's books and the original Mnemonica in Spanish for many years but I never took the time to memorize any of them. RS gave me the little push I needed to start working with a stack. Thanks Patrick for this. I hope I can write more about my RS adventures soon.

You need to have a good faro shuffle in order to do something similar to what I did and once you have memorized the stack, you can do miracles. Patrick has planned to continue publishing his work on this stack and in the future there will be more books dedicated to the RS. 

Now I need to go back to memorizing the stack...

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Rudy Tinoco

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Reply with quote  #5 
Thanks Mike and Luis!

I'm adding this book to my wish list.

Rudy

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Sean Keys

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Reply with quote  #6 
I was hooked on Aronson (and am still retaining it) but the Redford stack is quite compelling (and pretty easy to memorize). I've been putting a lot of work into a variation of his Temporarily Out of Order routine where you escalate from a single match co-incidence to matching multiple cards (basically pieces of Marlo's matching routine) but then close with the deck back in new deck order. Beautiful. The stack is incredibly fluid and flexible (mem to stay to parallel to NDO, etc.).
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Zedd

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Reply with quote  #7 
I used the Aronson-Stack for many years but have changed to the Redford-Stack. For me, it's more versatile - i can go to SiStebbins, Staystack etc..... absolutely love it!!!

Best regards[wave]
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KenTheriot

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Reply with quote  #8 
Wow, it seems like I am only scratching the surface with Aronson. I'm "fluent" in Aronson and am loathe to add another stack. seems like learning another language, almost. I'll add this to my note (My Evernote notebook on magic is getting massive[smile]) on the Memorized Deck for down the road, though. Thanks for the info!
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Sean Keys

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Reply with quote  #9 
And the effect Totally Out of Order is a doozy. I've really been working on this - trying to make it my own. But, until I am rock solid on the stack, I'll still be using Aronson.
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KenTheriot

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Reply with quote  #10 
How is it trying to keep two stacks memorized? It seems like that would be tough. Then again, I've had trouble with my memory all my life. Thank goodness for systems like Harry's. I passed many a test in college and beyond because of them. 
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François Lagrange

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Reply with quote  #11 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zedd
I used the Aronson-Stack for many years but have changed to the Redford-Stack. For me, it's more versatile - i can go to SiStebbins, Staystack etc..... absolutely love it!!!

Best regards[wave]


What effects do you perform that use a Staystack?

Just curious. Often the built-in tricks in a stack are hardly worth performing. There are a massive amount of stack independent effects that are just stunning.

As to go from any shuffled deck to any stack (Aronson or other), a radix sort will do that for you under the guise of a trick. I think Bob Farmer's latest book explains that in detail - I've been told as I have not purchased a copy.
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luigimar

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Reply with quote  #12 
I use mainly 2 ideas with stay stack. One effect I learned in the second Roy Walton book. With 2 kings or like cards you find two matching cards. One that the spectator freely chooses and its mate. I love this effect.

The second is a matching routine I learned on the second Devious DVD by Mike Close. It is based on a Marlo routine.

If you want to do these routines and still remain prepared to go back to Redford Stack, I think you could use the 8 faro idea to apparently shuffle between effects.

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Zedd

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Reply with quote  #13 
Hi Francois,

check Mnemonica and the work of Woody Aragon [wave]
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Mind Phantom

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Reply with quote  #14 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Francois Lagrange


What effects do you perform that use a Staystack ?


I use Martin Nash's closer called Ovation. It's in his Charming Cheat series of video's. However, you need to do a deck switch before the effect.

I haven't found a way to bring in the "cooler" that I like, but I still practice this.
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Sean Keys

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Reply with quote  #15 
Re memorizing multiple stacks, I find it a bit like multiple phone numbers - you can keep them straight. That said, for the instantaneous recognition (with no thinking), Aronson definitely triggers first. not sure how this will pan out longer term. I also tried remember the sequence. So, for example, if you see the Ace of Spades, you think 6, 7, 10 (Aronson, Tamariz, Redford). At this point though, I'm not actively trying to maintain Tamariz.

Re stay stack, there are lots of great ideas from Close, Ackerman, Ortiz, Nash, etc. Redford shows how to use a deck switch to bring in the stack, then has a series of routines (based on Marlo's Matching Routine) that let you perform a few effects, each escalating in impact. Ultimately you end up in NDO. In his version, he goes to his stack first, then transitions to stay stack. I instead switch directly to his stay stack, which let's me escalate to the miracle phase (NDO) more quickly.

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François Lagrange

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Reply with quote  #16 

Thank you Luigimar & Logan for listing the effects you perform with a staystack.

I’ve a copy of Rusduck’s The Cardiste. In it, Rusduck describes for the first time the idea of a staystack and its applications, as well as many other stack applications. It’s a quirky but great magazine (that you can purchase from Lybrary).

Are there any staystack effects that are not mainly mates matching? I am not keen on those.

P.S. In number 4 of The Cardiste, there's a wonderful tip about maintaining the stack with partial faros. I don think I've read that tip anywhere else.

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luigimar

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Reply with quote  #17 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Francois Lagrange

I’ve a copy of Rusduck’s The Cardiste. In it, Rusduck describes for the first time the idea of a staystack and its applications, as well as many other stack applications. It’s a quirky but great magazine (that you can purchase from Lybrary).



I bought my first copy of the Cardiste from Peter Duffie about 11 years ago and recently (2015) the Conjuring Arts Research Center made it available for free as part of the Summer Reading Program. Now you can get it for about $20. This version includes issue 13 (which I did not get in the Duffie version). 


If interested, you can also get it here: 

http://shop.conjuringarts.org/store/pc/Cardiste-Magazine-PDF-53p1307.htm#.WbFSBcgjG01


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Zedd

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Reply with quote  #18 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Logan Five


I use Martin Nash's closer called Ovation. It's in his Charming Cheat series of video's. However, you need to do a deck switch before the effect.

I haven't found a way to bring in the "cooler" that I like, but I still practice this.


Or you do some effects with the MD, shuffle it into staystack and finish with it [wave]
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Blathermist

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Reply with quote  #19 
I somehow managed to miss the Summer Reading version of The Cardiste, but I do have a "book" version published a few years ago by Paul Gordon. Excellent stuff.
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Dave Campbell

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Reply with quote  #20 
I know I'm very late to this post, but I'm also very new to the forum 😉

I have all (I think) of the Aronson books, and when his stack first hit, I memorized it. I then went through about a 7-year period of intense concentration on my job and writing, speaking, and travelling, and Magic ended up taking a backseat. As you all quite understand, the memorization went out the window.

Once I got back into magic about 4 years ago, it had been my intention to get the Aronson stack back into memory, but then the Redford stack came along. I bought the book to see what was the buzz, and then he has a FB group of folks sharing things about it, and I went that way.

I've never used Si Stebbins although there are some very interesting things you can do with it, and since as was explained above, you can use what essentially looks like a phone number and go from RS to Stebbins, and when you're done you can 'phone home' and go back. 

So now I consider Si Stebbins effects to be more available than before such as one Cameron Francis has on his "Out of Sleight" DVD called "Creation" ... I've seen it elsewhere as well, but I like his presentation.

Of course many stack-agnostic things in other books are also do-able.

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