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Jeffrey Binning

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Reply with quote  #1 
Darwin's book "At the Card Table" has a great little impromptu trick called Mindbenders, which he credits to John Clark.  The trick is very easy to learn and has a huge impact.

As taught, you use cards in new deck order.  I'm using it with a memorized deck, which I believe makes it better as the cards can be more freely displayed as the trick progresses.  I'll talk about that a bit more when I'm in the "Secret" forum, and can speak more freely.  I use it as a finale and the response is always satisfying.
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Rudy Tinoco

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Reply with quote  #2 
This sounds very interesting! I don't have that book, but it sounds like a bit of Buried Treasure for those who have it!

BTW...I use the Tamariz stack. 

Thanks for sharing!

Rudy

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Jeffrey Binning

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Reply with quote  #3 
I understand and respect the Tamirez stack, but I use a new Bicycle deck which has been given 5 out faros, then cut to a specific starting point in that sequence.  It looks random, but I can faro a new deck into memorized deck order quickly and easily.  

Until using this method, I had resisted memorized decks, as the setup always seemed too tedious to me.
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Rudy Tinoco

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Reply with quote  #4 
I know what you mean. One of the main reasons that I committed the Tamariz stack to memory was because of the ability to get into NDO.
Unfortunately, I'm not fond of the way that you get back there.

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Claudio

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Reply with quote  #5 
Sounds good Jeffrey.

I used to perform Mindbender until I discovered Steve Ehlers's The Three-Card Location from A. Ackerman's Las Vegas Kardma. It uses a memdeck, requires 3 spectators and the first two phases are virtually identical to Mindbender. It's a terrific effect which is well worth the effort of learning a memdeck, if you don't already know one.
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Mark Goldstein

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Reply with quote  #6 
Of note, Steve Elhers has modified the three card location slightly to make it less likely to look like a memorized or prearranged deck is used. He published it in his notes - The Millinium Collection.
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Chi Han

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Reply with quote  #7 
Just putting it out there, Eric Richardson has a way to get into Aronson Stack from new deck order.  Although to be honest I find it easier to just place it in that order (I never set it up in front of an audience).
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Claudio

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Reply with quote  #8 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Goldstein
Of note, Steve Elhers has modified the three card location slightly to make it less likely to look like a memorized or prearranged deck is used. He published it in his notes - The Millinium Collection.


Yes that's right, and in his Arizona Card Expert DVD too [smile] which is easier to get I reckon.
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AlexStrand

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Reply with quote  #9 
Could someone explain the basic presentation of the trick(s)? And what would be the most conventional method of learning a stack, if it were something I were willing to devote time to in the future? Just curious.

-alex

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Claudio

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Reply with quote  #10 
Alex,

Here's, in a nutshell, the Mindbender effect:

A spectator cuts a deck as many times as she wants, a second spectator cuts a packet off the top. Both spectators take a look at their bottom card. Both spectators shuffle their respective packet thoroughly. The performer takes one of the packets and announces the chosen card, then without touching the second spectator's packet, announces the 2ndselection.

My description does not make justice to the effect. It floored me the very first time I saw it.

There are multiple ways to learn a stack. I have published a free Android application to do just that. It has nearly 300 downloads (not bad considering the narrow niche market) and is rated 4.9 stars. You can download it from here MemDeckPro

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Jeffrey Binning

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Reply with quote  #11 
I use Harry Lorayne's  system to memorize all sorts of things, including my memorized deck.  Mnemonics of some sort is the easiest way to get a deck memorized, in my opinion.  
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Tom G

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Reply with quote  #12 
I'll second Claudio's app.  It's very well done and thought out.  Definitely worth a look.
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Claudio

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Reply with quote  #13 
Thanks Tom!
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AlexStrand

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Reply with quote  #14 
Thanks fellas!
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LobowolfXXX

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Reply with quote  #15 
Quote:
Originally Posted by AlexStrand
Could someone explain the basic presentation of the trick(s)? And what would be the most conventional method of learning a stack, if it were something I were willing to devote time to in the future? Just curious.

-alex


Personally, I recommend Martin Joyal's excellent book, "The Six-Hour Memorized Deck."
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Mats Kjellstrom

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Reply with quote  #16 
Quote:
Originally Posted by LobowolfXXX
Quote:
Originally Posted by AlexStrand
Could someone explain the basic presentation of the trick(s)? And what would be the most conventional method of learning a stack, if it were something I were willing to devote time to in the future? Just curious.

-alex
Personally, I recommend Martin Joyal's excellent book, "The Six-Hour Memorized Deck."


Joyal Stack as an ebook: http://www.joyalstack.com/memorized-deck/six-hour-memorized-deck

This is the first memdeck stack I learned, easy to learn and it´s "easy" to keep in your mind.
I recommend this book - many great effects in this book.

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AlexStrand

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Reply with quote  #17 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mats Kjellstrom
Quote:
Originally Posted by LobowolfXXX
Quote:
Originally Posted by AlexStrand
Could someone explain the basic presentation of the trick(s)? And what would be the most conventional method of learning a stack, if it were something I were willing to devote time to in the future? Just curious.

-alex
Personally, I recommend Martin Joyal's excellent book, "The Six-Hour Memorized Deck."


Joyal Stack as an ebook: http://www.joyalstack.com/memorized-deck/six-hour-memorized-deck

This is the first memdeck stack I learned, easy to learn and it´s "easy" to keep in your mind.
I recommend this book - many great effects in this book.


Thanks guys for the recommendation. I will take a look at this, but I am curious; what type of effects, other than ACAAN, can be performed with a memorized stack, or this stack in particular.

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Chi Han

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Reply with quote  #18 
Quote:
Originally Posted by AlexStrand
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mats Kjellstrom
Quote:
Originally Posted by LobowolfXXX
Quote:
Originally Posted by AlexStrand
Could someone explain the basic presentation of the trick(s)? And what would be the most conventional method of learning a stack, if it were something I were willing to devote time to in the future? Just curious.

-alex
Personally, I recommend Martin Joyal's excellent book, "The Six-Hour Memorized Deck."


Joyal Stack as an ebook: http://www.joyalstack.com/memorized-deck/six-hour-memorized-deck

This is the first memdeck stack I learned, easy to learn and it´s "easy" to keep in your mind.
I recommend this book - many great effects in this book.


Thanks guys for the recommendation. I will take a look at this, but I am curious; what type of effects, other than ACAAN, can be performed with a memorized stack, or this stack in particular.


Oh man there are tons of works out there (Simon Aronson's Bound to Please is full of stuff, Mnemonica is also pretty famous though I have not read it).  Make sure to check out Aronsons free pdf Memories are Made of This just for a brief primer on stack work.  You're really only limited by your imagination.  Since I put in so much time to memorize a stack I use it for:

Instant memorization of part of a deck in conjunction with false shuffles.

Instant divining of cards and later manipulations into fun reveals (usually destroying the order of the stack).  People can pick any card totally free without any force and you know it instantly, really useful stuff.

ACAAN.

Instant cutting to four of a kinds and other gambling demonstrations (I use Aronson's stack, I'm sure other stacks will work, but any deck with any kind of 'set up' is technically a partially stacked deck).

Gimmickless invisible deck.

Hands off card to wallet.

Order from chaos.

I think thats all I use my stacks for, but most of the effects can be done without a memdeck, but It can make rot much easier.  Also don't underestimate the potential of instantly knowing cards picked without force.  So many tricks become available after that.
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Harry Lorayne

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Reply with quote  #19 
    Gotta' get this off my mind. Jeffrey, we obviously have different "definitions" of impromptu.  In your opening post here you mention a "...little impromptu trick" that uses a deck in NDO. Jeffrey, that "ain't" impromptu. Not in my definition of the word. "Impromptu" is - deck is handed to you and you go into the effect/routine. No big issue; matter of semantics, I guess.  And recommended somewhere else in this thread - six hours!!!! to memorize a deck???!!! 

    When I was much, much, younger I would excuse myself, go to the bathroom casually taking the deck I'd been working with, with me. I'd memorize the shuffled deck in a couple of minutes, wash my hands, go out and do a couple of memorized deck miracles. Wonder if my audience would still be there, waiting impatiently, with anticipation, if I took six hours to memorize the deck!! 

       Method?  As taught in about ten of my books on memory training. And no, I no longer do that...no longer necessary - can make "jaws drop" with much better/stronger impromptu (really impromptu) effects/routines.
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Rudy Tinoco

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Reply with quote  #20 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeffrey Binning
I use Harry Lorayne's  system to memorize all sorts of things, including my memorized deck.  Mnemonics of some sort is the easiest way to get a deck memorized, in my opinion.  


I wouldn't have wanted to memorize the Tamariz stack without Harry's system.

Rudy 

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Deckster

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Reply with quote  #21 
My apologies to everyone because this veers of the initial post but because of Alex's questions I want to encourage him to work on a memorized deck and consider that it has many powers. Alex, the memdeck has it's initial uses for whatever effect the stack is for and a very useful thing to remember is that it's use is not done even if the cards get mixed after that.  A disrupted stack can still hold sequences and even after a rifle shuffle can have useful order. There are benefits out of it after it is disrupted and if shuffled then the spectators think they are really mixed up, but yet it still holds useful information.  You will seldom get this information within a specific memdeck effect explanation as it isn't germane to that trick. This is a use for stacks that is often overlooked so I hope that shows you even more useful of a memorized deck.  If your stack holds say, poker deals you maybe able to preserve that portion and perform a trick with that after your initial memdeck routine. I don't think a performance of mindbender will hold the sequences however. Alex if you haven't started memory work begin that as soon as possible with Lorayne's work. Don't use brute force to try and remember things or memorize a deck.
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Harry Lorayne

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Reply with quote  #22 
     No put-down intended, and I know that many wonderful effects can be done with a memorized stack, but - if you're known for that, for those sort of effects, what in the world do you do when a shuffled deck is handed to you and the person says, "Oh, please do that so-and-so trick"? I may be wrong, but I think I can duplicate any trick done with a memorized stack with a shuffled, in-use, deck. Sure, it may not be exactly the same effect, but the layman will think either that it is, or that it's better
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Harry Lorayne

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Reply with quote  #23 
      My reply above ended by itself before I was entirely finished. "...better. Just wanted to stress that I may be wrong.
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mark lewis

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Reply with quote  #24 

I agree with Harry. 90 percent of my work with cards is done impromptu and although there are some very good tricks indeed with a stacked deck I just don't have the inclination or indeed the opportunity to perform them. Small set ups yes. You can do those impromptu because there are ways to set up openly in front of people. For larger stacks it is just not practical when working impromptu.

However, when working professionally there is more opportunity to use prearranged decks. Chan Canasta for example used this principle all the time and in fact it was one of his main methods. One incredibly good trick you can do with prearrangement is the Nap Hand but this is really a stage trick. Probably the best trick I ever saw with a memorised deck is the one that the late Len Wallace used to do and I think he was the only one who ever performed it. Card are named at random and Len used to spring to the named card. It looked quite spectacular.

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damianjennings

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Reply with quote  #25 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Harry Lorayne
     No put-down intended, and I know that many wonderful effects can be done with a memorized stack, but - if you're known for that, for those sort of effects, what in the world do you do when a shuffled deck is handed to you and the person says, "Oh, please do that so-and-so trick"? I may be wrong, but I think I can duplicate any trick done with a memorized stack with a shuffled, in-use, deck. Sure, it may not be exactly the same effect, but the layman will think either that it is, or that it's better


Not sure the two things are mutually exclusive. Tamariz is known for his stack, yet is equally happy if you hand him a shuffled deck. 

And a response to the request?

"oh you've seen that one before, let me show you something even better..."


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Harry Lorayne

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Reply with quote  #26 
     No question that there are ways to get out of it - obviously. I just never have to bother - just lazy, I guess.

      Of course, there's always the possibility that the person would say, "No, no,  of course I saw it before, that's why I've been raving about it to Sam here - I want him to see that one."
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Chi Han

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Reply with quote  #27 
I think impromptu vs the appearance of impromptu are important things to consider. If someone just hands me a deck, I have no idea if it's a full deck, try a 4 ace production when you only have 3 aces! While I'm comfortable with a borrowed deck versus my own, I always have different considerations as to which tricks I want to do. Even if someone does hand me a deck, if I had the opportunity earlier in the evening to set it into a stack, I'll do so. I may never touch the deck again. It doesn't have to be a full stack, but something as simple as memorizing or setting the top and bottom card in advance can go a long way.
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damianjennings

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Reply with quote  #28 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Harry Lorayne
     No question that there are ways to get out of it - obviously. I just never have to bother - just lazy, I guess.

      Of course, there's always the possibility that the person would say, "No, no,  of course I saw it before, that's why I've been raving about it to Sam here - I want him to see that one."


Sure. But if someone comes over and asks me to show them a trick they've already seen I won't oblige them. If it is a mem deck or not. 
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Socrates

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Reply with quote  #29 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Harry Lorayne
     No put-down intended, and I know that many wonderful effects can be done with a memorized stack, but - if you're known for that, for those sort of effects, what in the world do you do when a shuffled deck is handed to you and the person says, "Oh, please do that so-and-so trick"? I may be wrong, but I think I can duplicate any trick done with a memorized stack with a shuffled, in-use, deck. Sure, it may not be exactly the same effect, but the layman will think either that it is, or that it's better


The decription of the Mindbender trick reminds me of a Max Maven trick I saw, both use stacked decks. There are ways of replicating the trick/effect with a shuffled deck. Like Harry I prefer to work FASIDU, it's much stronger.
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Socrates

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Reply with quote  #30 
Quote:
Originally Posted by damianjennings


Sure. But if someone comes over and asks me to show them a trick they've already seen I won't oblige them. If it is a mem deck or not. 


Most of my card work is jazzed, so what one person/audience sees is unique to them. I have collected many different ideas over the years, so have multiple ways of creating card effects.

Even if I did do the same effects over and again and someone asked to see 'that trick' I would just say "Sure no problem" and then go ahead and show them something similar. Most people do not remember things accurately anyway, plus they'd enjoy whatever I showed them.

It is rare for me to refuse someones request to see magic.
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damianjennings

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Reply with quote  #31 
I never jazz. Everything I do is very tightly rehearsed down to each beat. But I am glad you enjoy it. Not my sort of thing.

I didn't suggest refusing to show someone magic. But if someone asks to see such and such a trick, usually their description ruins the trick for the other person. i.e. can you do the trick where my card ends up in your wallet? Can you do the trick where 3 cards travel from my packet to their packet etc. So, I politely say, well you've seen that, let me show you something even better and they're happy. 
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Socrates

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Reply with quote  #32 
Yes that makes sense.

If you do the standards then a spectator description will probably ruin the outcome, however you could still show them the card in the wallet... just show them something else first to set up the wallet trick.
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mark lewis

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Reply with quote  #33 

I will PRETEND that I am not going to do the trick again and then I go on to other stuff. However, I make a judgement call as to whether the trick in question will bear repetition without the method being discovered. If I deem it to be the case and it often is, then I will repeat it without announcing that I about to do so. That will take the person who has already seen it off guard so they are not quite so watchful and in any case they are not paying attention that much because they are focusing on the new person's reaction.

I have a very large repertoire with cards so am in a position to do this. I can easily go an hour or two with the same audience and in my younger days I used to do that frequently. Nobody left believe it or not.

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nighthowler

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Reply with quote  #34 
I have some books on memorizing a deck of cards on my website crazymindtricks.com. Please check it out! And leave a comment on what you thought about it. Thanks!
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Harry Lorayne

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Reply with quote  #35 
    Hey, you're going to have to forgive me, nighthowler, but - you go on about "memory palace" - an idea that's thousands of years old. That's why my books on the subject have sold many millions - I do teach MUCH better/modern memory-training systems. What's interesting on your site is that you mention, forgive me - a rip-off of mine. The other book you mention, the Yates book, is wonderful - it's the history of memory training - no systems really taught therein.

   Again, to each his own, of course, but - if you're going to stress your knowledge of a subject, it's interesting to me, VERY interesting, that you name one book that, IN MY OBVIOUSLY BIASED OPINION, does not in ANY way compare to any of my books - which I have to assume you never heard of, books like:

    HOW TO DEVELOP A SUPER-POWER MEMORY,  SECRETS OF MIND POWER, INSTANT MIND POWER, MEMORY ISOMETRICS COURSE, MEMORY POWER COURSE, GOOD MEMORY-GOOD STUDENT, GOOD MEMORY-SUCCESSFUL STUDENT, THE MEMORY BOOK, REMEMBERING PEOPLE (The Key To Success), THE PAGE-A-MINUTE MEMORY BOOK, MEMORY MAKES MONEY, SUPER MEMORY-SUPER STUDENT!, AGELESS MEMORY. 

        Interesting. Anyway, needed to get these thoughts off my mind/chest. Please forgive. I feel much better now.
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Harry Lorayne

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Reply with quote  #36 
   Oh, and in most of my books listed above, I teach how to memorize cards - starting in the first one mentioned there - published 1956.
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Mind Phantom

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Reply with quote  #37 
There is another routine by Darwin Ortiz called Maximum Risk which uses a memorized deck in his book Scams & Fantasies With Cards. I also like the version of the routine using sleight of hand by Jason England.

Each time the magician deals the cards to build up their chances of winning money, but in the end, the spectator doesn't win the bet ( $100 ), nor do they lose any money. 
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