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KenTheriot

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Reply with quote  #1 
I am finally able to do the Faro Shuffle! But though the edges of the cards weave perfectly along the outsides. But in the center of the packets, the cards don't weave until the very last minute. So the middle cards get pushed down and out of the "receiving" packet - if that makes sense.

Has this kind of thing happened to anyone else?

I can put a picture up if that would help. [see below]

Thanks.

Ken

Here's a pic:
Faro Issue.jpg 
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rready

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Reply with quote  #2 
Even pressure and a light touch. Don't push too hard. Make sure cards are nice and squared.
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KenTheriot

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Reply with quote  #3 
Thanks. So do you brace the ends of both halves with a finger to keep them squared?

Ken
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Harry Lorayne

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Reply with quote  #4 
       If you have to ask that, you have a problem. First thing I taught when touching on the perfect faro way back in Close-Up Card Magic, 1962!
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KenTheriot

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Reply with quote  #5 
I figured as much. I've been looking at too many other versions, I guess.

Thanks Harry!

Ken
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Rudy Tinoco

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Reply with quote  #6 
Quote:
Originally Posted by KenTheriot
Thanks. So do you brace the ends of both halves with a finger to keep them squared?

Ken
 

Skyping you now, Ken!

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damianjennings

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Reply with quote  #7 
The Fred Robinson book has great teaching of the faro. You
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luigimar

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Reply with quote  #8 
Do you have a firm grip of the cards? Do they move when you are interlacing them? When you start weaving the cards, the index finger of one hand and the pinky finger of the other hand kind of square the cards so they can weave from bottom to top, or top to bottom, your choice, without the cards moving. Difficult to explain without pictures...

The cards should be squared and when you see them from the side, the pinky and index fingers keep the cards from opening too much while they weave. That action, I think, is what keeps the cards from bunching up in the middle. And don't try to get the cards all mixed at the same time, they go from bottom to top, or viceversa, one by one.

I hope this helps.

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luigimar

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Reply with quote  #9 
This is my grip for the Faro...

Faro1.jpg 

Look at my left pinky and right index. They control the cards so they don't open and bunch up. Also notice the right pinky. It is serving as a table (I think that is the way Marlo described it, a "table"). Then I gently but firmly push the two blocks together and they start weaving from the bottom (left side of the picture) to the top. By moving the top half to the right or left a little bit (less than a millimeter), I can do an out-faro or in-faro as needed.

And this is the result (out-faro)...

Faro2.jpg 

I hope this helps and complements my written description in the previous post.


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rready

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Reply with quote  #10 
Lots of magicians have a different hold on the cards when doing the faro. I think I learned it from a Dingle tape where he puts his left pinky in between the two packets. Doing that gave me more stability and control. Also make sure the cards you are using are in decent shape.
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EVILDAN

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Reply with quote  #11 
Maybe I'm doing it wrong, but it works for me.
I square the two halves by tapping them against each other.
Then I line up the narrow ends starting with the bottom most cards, so that the packets are at a slight "V" angle to each other, then I just pressure feed them into each other and work my way up.
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Claudio

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Reply with quote  #12 
How can it be wrong if you manage to faro the cards [wink]? I have the same approach as yours and have been doing it this way for decades.
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trinimontes

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Reply with quote  #13 
Yes Claudio you are correct in that one cannot be wrong if the Faro works, as long as its smoothly executed.

There are indeed different ways of executing the Faro, as has been mentioned. Not only are there different grips, but also different methods. What I mean by that is this....

Marlo taught to Faro from the face to the back, Lorayne, in Close Up Card Magic, taught to Faro from the back to the face, or top to bottom depending on the orientation of the cards. Niether is wrong. You can still execute a perfect In, Out, or Straddle Faro using either technique. What matters most is that it is executed smoothly. I execute it from the Back to Face, as in Close Up Card Magic. I literally spent about 4 hours straight practicing on the couch while watching television. Practice is key.



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Trini
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Claudio

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Reply with quote  #14 

Indeed there are a few ways to faro cards.

I started with the technique explained in Expert Card Technique. Though I did eventually manage to do perfect faros, it was hard going as the hands position made it very awkward. It’s only when I read Marlo's booklet The Faro Shuffle that I really felt comfortable with it.

I believe than you should learn to faro both ways: bottom-up and top-down so you can adapt the method to the factory cut. In any case, once you've been faroing the same deck for a while, you'll notice that it'll faro either way easily.

If you have some problem with weaving the cards, I suggest that during a training session, once you've weaved the two packets perfectly, you then unweave them straightaway to refaro them and keep doing this. There's no need to coalesce the two packs as it's not productive. When you first learn to faro, you spend too much time try cutting dead centre etc, rather than just getting the feel for the faroing action. Doing this way you'll be faroing at least 3 times more by session and you’ll learn more quickly.

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NAVarga

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Reply with quote  #15 
One thing that might help are the tips from Alex Elmsley's books by Stephen Minch.  Cards in Europe had rough cut edges. Elmsley would run over the ends of the cards with a very fine emory board, ROUNDING, not POINTING the edge.  Done by beveling the pack in both directions and on both sides. I do this to every deck I'm going to faro.  I also learned the faro as in the picture above.

Elmsley's work on the Faro is brilliant. The Penelope Principle alone is worth the price of a set of Tarbell.

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StevePR104

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Reply with quote  #16 

Equally important, as has been referenced above, is the cut of the cards.  Badly cut cards will not faro the way you want, despite your best attempts.  I have found that Aristocrats faro wonderfully out of the box, almost without fail.

And if you can do that, you're off to the races with Darwin Ortiz's "Si Stebbins Secret."

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luigimar

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Reply with quote  #17 
Quote:
Originally Posted by NAVarga
One thing that might help are the tips from Alex Elmsley's books by Stephen Minch.  Cards in Europe had rough cut edges. Elmsley would run over the ends of the cards with a very fine emory board, ROUNDING, not POINTING the edge.  Done by beveling the pack in both directions and on both sides. I do this to every deck I'm going to faro.  I also learned the faro as in the picture above.

Elmsley's work on the Faro is brilliant. The Penelope Principle alone is worth the price of a set of Tarbell.



Elmsley's books are worth much more than the price you would pay for them if they were still available from L&L... I got mine around the year 2000 and they haven't been available for some time... And Penelope's Principle is a beauty...

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magicfish

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Reply with quote  #18 
Remember this: the faro shuffle is a RELEASE of pressure.
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mark lewis

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Reply with quote  #19 
I have probably done more faro shuffles than any magician in history with the poorest quality cards imaginable. Why? The svengali deck of course. I have to put the bloody things in order because the cheap Chinese cards I  use are not collated.
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obrienmagic

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Reply with quote  #20 
I am not the best at the faro, but had to learn it for a triumph routine i created. haha my good friend Jeremy is pretty decent at it and made a tutorial for it. If you are interested feel free to take a look Hope it helps!

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Harry Lorayne

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Reply with quote  #21 
      Go to the This Is Great thread in this forum to learn about the discount price for my book, LORAYNE: THE CLASSIC COLLECTION, Vol. 2 (faro discussion above is what originally reminded me it). I would copy/paste that post here if I only knew how to do it!
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Tom G

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Reply with quote  #22 
I had tried Mike Close's tutorial, but his hand position didn't work for small hands.   As for taking care of a deck and making it easier to faro, find the video by Steven Youell on buffing the deck.
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Blathermist

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Reply with quote  #23 

A bit of trivia to confirm that magicians, or some of them at least really are barmy.

As faro people know, eight out-faro shuffles restore a pack of cards to its original order. It follows therefore, that if the pack is given six full blocks of eight perfect out-faro shuffles, the number of shuffles in total is 48. A total of 48 shuffles and the cards are back in the same order.

If the pack is then given 52 perfect in-faro shuffles, the total number of shuffles climbs to 100. And the pack is back in the same order.

From here it’s a simple matter to calculate that if this regime is maintained for one year, and, assuming the year in question is not a leap year, the number of faro shuffles carried out amounts to 36,500. Yes, thirty-six thousand, five hundred. By extending the time span to a year and a day, anyway, leap year or not, the total becomes 36,600.

If the daily routine takes 20 minutes which, by and large, is what it took me, the time spent in practice amounts to 7320 minutes, which is 122 hours or 5 days and two hours.

A full working week and a bit of overtime. Who says magicians aren’t crazy?

This is not really a true practice regime, of course, more a training schedule. If we set out at the start of the great faro adventure trying to do 100 faros a day, it’s going to take more than 20 minutes. It may well take all day and a bit longer. And in all probability, a very long day of intense frustration. So, we need to approach with caution, a fair degree of good humour and have fun.

Incidentally, I had been using the faro long before this and have since (of course) but it seemed liked a good idea a t the time. I enjoyed it and it was never a drag.

As a matter of interest (perhaps) I faro from the bottom of the pack upwards. I tried both, top and bottom; this suits me.

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Dr. Gee

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Reply with quote  #24 
For me, the hardest part in learning the faro, and other tricks that require physical finesse (which, brother believe me, I am still learning!) is to

1. be an actor while I do it and  
2. mentally & emotionally let go to give the trick some room to work itself out.

So, mb being too involved with performance instead of performing (the acting part--getting into the character of a magician, which involves believing in magic and letting it actually happen) affects your faro. It sure does mine---on the days that I  can let go, it just happens and nicely (though not always precisely) so.  On the days that I try to make it happen---flllappp! cards all over the place!

*poof*

dr gee


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Nicolás Pierri

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Reply with quote  #25 
as for a short answer try to find a very very thin file and file de edges


try to turn the deck face up


as for a long answer i have published recently the translation of my book on the faro called faro poetry there I talk a lot about tips, problems and solutions for perfect weaving,perfect cut, and types of cards. if you are intrested just send me an email [smile]
Nicolasmtg@gmail.com with the subject FARO POETRY.

faro poetry is more about aplications ideas principles (some of my own) and tricks i do not teach the tecknique but i tell a lot of secrets for improve yours [smile]
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SReynolds

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Reply with quote  #26 
Two words:

Marlo's Faro Shuffle.

Ok three words.

Bottom up is much more FLEXIBLE with regard to APPLICATIONS than top down.

Ok, 16 words.

Steve

PS A word and a letter:

Double V

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Harry Lorayne

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Reply with quote  #27 
   Top down is much, much, better for me. Always - for about 70 years plus - has been. So, four words --- To Each His Own.
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trinimontes

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Reply with quote  #28 
Steve,
I agree, although I perform the Faro from back to face, or Top to Bottom, as you very well know. It is more flexible to use the Bottom Up method, as Marlo explained, for there are many effects that I have had to make adjustments to, which are not easy, when doing to Top Down Faro.

Harry,
Yes, to each his/her own. Its a matter of preference, style, looks, ok I'm pushing it with the "looks" statement. For years I have been doing the Faro as you described in CUCM, which is from the Top Down, and for me it is easier. I have found, however, that the newer playing cards are cut differently. This makes the Top Down Faro difficult. Maybe they are cut in the opposite direction as before; who knows.



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Trini
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SReynolds

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Reply with quote  #29 
Harry,

Nice to get a reply from you. First time for me.

Thank you for all you've done for card magic and it's literature.

Trini,

Yeah, maybe it's the cards and how they're cut and you initially learned with a upside down cut.

It reminds me of the story about the young elephant (not the Hierophant-- which by the way has some good Faro stuff that needs to be done from bottom up) who was tied up with a rope and couldn't pull the stake out of the ground since he wasn't big enough. Then, when he grew up, he still thought he couldn't pull the stick out even though he could rip it out with no effort.

You can do it!

Steve

PS Your the elephant, the deck is the rope, and the bottom-up Faro Shuffle is the stake.

Or are you the rope? Nevermind.

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trinimontes

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Reply with quote  #30 
Steve,
I knew I was an animal, but an elephant?? WOW!!

Yes sir you are correct, one trick that comes to mind is Marlo's "Invisible Toss" from Card Finesse II and, The Unexpected Card Book. I will begin my work on the Bottom Up Faro, oh and, make sure to say CARDSwith the Chicago accent.


Trini
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oscarf

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Reply with quote  #31 
What I'm about to say has been beaten to death elsewhere, but I didn't really see what they were talking about until last week. I have been doing faro shuffles for at least 45 years, and have not had any trouble since I first spent many hours learning the technique. That is, until last week. I bought a brick of bicycle decks at Costco. They will not faro for ... a darn.

Usually, if I give a stubborn new deck 10 or 20 faros, then they are "broken in" and the faro smoothly and easily. Not these. I ended up throwing them out. I don't know if it's the card stock or the cut or both, but I would hate to be trying to learn the faro with a deck like this, if I can hardly faro them after decades of mastery.

I was too lazy to subject them to Steven Youell's "buffing the deck," which I know can sometimes help. I didn't throw out the whole brick, so I will try that with another deck, but I guess my point is, you should probably be sure to have a very high quality deck for learning the faro. Later, you will be able to faro old, bent, and beer soaked cards with ease - but still not these Costco brick bikes!
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Bulla

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Reply with quote  #32 
Just out of curiosity were those red backed bikes?  From my experience ever since they switched to standard the blue backed bikes tend to be better on avg.  I've grown to dislike bikes but if I'm desperate and need to buy one I'll only buy blue backs.
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pnielan

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Reply with quote  #33 
Quote:
Originally Posted by luigimar


Elmsley's books are worth much more than the price you would pay for them if they were still available from L&L... I got mine around the year 2000 and they haven't been available for some time... And Penelope's Principle is a beauty...


I do love these these beautiful books (thanks Mr. Minch) as well as the Elmsley DVDs (formerly VHS tapes) from L&L. Was so impressed that many of the tricks in the books could be artfully performed. Can still remember the smile I had after watching the first Elmsley VHS tape I bought. 
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