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Mind Phantom

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Reply with quote  #1 
Your in front of an audience and you can't faro the cards, you try & try, but you can't get them to weave..what do you do?

Do you have an "out"?
Do you stop and do another effect?
Do you not do faro effects for just this reason?

Also has this ever happened to you?

Logan,
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arthur stead

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Reply with quote  #2 
Logan, for me it's simple: since I can't do a perfect Faro, I don't do any tricks that require the shuffle.  If, one day, I manage to attain perfection, then I'll attempt some effects that utilize it.  But not before.
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magicfish

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Reply with quote  #3 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Logan Five
Your in front of an audience and you can't faro the cards, you try & try, but you can't get them to weave..what do you do?

Do you have an "out"?
Do you stop and do another effect?
Do you not do faro effects for just this reason?

Also has this ever happened to you?

Logan,

Answer: You don't faro the deck in front of an audience until it is mastered. When it is mastered, you can faro the deck perfectly every time. Worst case scenario you're off by one and you hit it in the next attempt.
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Anthony Vinson

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Reply with quote  #4 
I faro under fire for only a single trick that requires two partial in faros. Sometimes I might have to restart one shuffle or the other, but if so I cover it with patter that fits the situation.

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rready

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Reply with quote  #5 
Most of the time I find the deck your using is everything. Some decks faro like butter and others not so even if you faro well. 
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luigimar

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Reply with quote  #6 
I started practicing the Faro about 30 years ago and it took me about 5 years to feel confident enough to use it in public. I used it succesfully for Harry Lorayne's "Vernon's Aces" in CUCM. I did it when I graduated from my career and we had a small party with some of my classmates at a friend's house. It was an ace routine (4 or 5 tricks) and Vernon's Aces was the climax. It was the most "demanding" trick I could do at the time and that is why I used it as the closer. Since I could do it successfully, that helped me get the confidence I needed to continue using it.

I love Faro tricks and I use the shuffle to get ready for some other effects that do not need it or I use it to get a setup I need for an effect. It is a powerful weapon when used well. If you miss a perfect faro there are things you can do to get out of "trouble." Michael Close discusses some things about the Faro in his Devious DVD set vol. 2 including getting out of trouble. 

Most of the Bicycle decks that I have bought recently Faro well after two or three shuffles. Those first shuffles help get some rough edges to get smooth and the faro is easy after them. Those other Designer/Fancy decks also faro well but I don't want to use them because they are so "fancy"!

 

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Tom G

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Reply with quote  #7 
Frank Garcia told me and rready that he avoided the Faro, if you mess up it goes from a shuffle to a move when you try to correct. I don't mind partials, but when a trick needs a full, perfect Faro I usually don't bother. Mine isn't consistent.
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alicauchy

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Reply with quote  #8 
Taking into account that a faro is a move, it should only be used when it is mastered. 

Even when mastered, one might have problems during performance (and this applies not just to the faro, but to any other move as well).
What to do in this case? To have an out and/or move to another effect.

I spent several years practicing alone before trying any faro-based effect in public BUT, and this is as important as in the classic force,
when I was more or less confident with the move, I practiced faros during performance when I needed to shuffle. 

I found it very convenient to gain nerve to faro shuffle in front of the audience because it was not important whether I failed or not, I was just shuffling.

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Harry Lorayne

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Reply with quote  #9 
    You guys obviously haven't been reading my last few books where I ELIMINATE the faro from so many of the routines I previously published that necessitated the faro. Because - a) I work only with borrowed decks and with most of those perfect faros are impossible and b) my arthritic fingers make it very difficult (growing old sucks!).  And, as happened quite often in the those routines that I re-published excluding the faros (and a few other moves that I can't do now) the routines ended up being - aside from easier to perform - MUCH better. You really have to start reading the good stuff, people.
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EndersGame

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Reply with quote  #10 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Harry Lorayne
    You guys obviously haven't been reading my last few books where I ELIMINATE the faro from so many of the routines I previously published that necessitated the faro. Because - a) I work only with borrowed decks and with most of those perfect faros are impossible and b) my arthritic fingers make it very difficult (growing old sucks!).  And, as happened quite often in the those routines that I re-published excluding the faros (and a few other moves that I can't do now) the routines ended up being - aside from easier to perform - MUCH better. You really have to start reading the good stuff, people.

Jaw Droppers Two is a good example of one of Harry's recent books which simplifies many routines by eliminating moves like this.

And as he says, in many respects the tricks are better and easier to perform because of it.

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sjrwheeler

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Reply with quote  #11 

I was out with a new friend the other day, we'd only met once before. It turned out she knew how to play my favourite card game, and she told me she is unbeatable. She is the only person I've ever met who knew how to play without me having taught them! 

Anyway, we bought a new deck and went to a pub to play and she was shuffling, and I made some comment about shuffling. And then she told me that it takes 8 perfect riffle shuffles to get the deck back to the same order. I asked where she heard that and she said it was something she'd known for years, and she had never met another magician before. She has no interest in magic. 

Isn't that weird? I was quite surprised to hear that fact coming from someone who doesn't have a connection to magic. 

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alicauchy

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Reply with quote  #12 
Is she related to mathematics?  I had a non-magician colleague who knew the 8-shuffle property from a course in combinatorics.
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sjrwheeler

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Reply with quote  #13 
Nope! But that would have made sense. Like me she has a background in photography.

I work with mathematicians and none of them have known it.
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François Lagrange

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Reply with quote  #14 
Or maybe she'd read Persi Diarconis's Magical Mathematics: The Mathematical Ideas That Animate Great Magic Tricks. Though I still have to meet a non-magician who's read it.

Logan: it has happened to me a few times in the space of 20 years (especially in hot summers). Depending on the effect, there's not always an easy way to recover, in such cases I admit failure and move on to the next (non faro) effect. However, in one effect I perform with 2 selections, I can recover by palming off the selections and producing them from a pocket - not too bad as I have scripted for such an eventuality.

Has it happened to you?
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sjrwheeler

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Reply with quote  #15 
Oh I really enjoyed that book. Might have to reread it. Thanks for the reminder!
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EndersGame

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Reply with quote  #16 
I'm active in the boardgame community on boardgamegeek.com, which is the largest boardgame community in the world, with 5 million unique users monthly. 

The topic of the best way to shuffle cards often comes up in discussions, and I've seen threads many times over the years that talk about riffle shuffling, including that 8 perfect shuffles restore the original order.

Here's an example of a thread discussion like that, which also mentions that fact:

https://boardgamegeek.com/thread/1595976/riffle-shuffling

Serious boardgamers can take their shuffling pretty seriously, and some of them are even familiar with terms like "faro shuffling".  

Out of curiosity, sjrwheeler, what is your favourite card game that your friend claimed she was unbeatable at?


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alicauchy

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Reply with quote  #17 
Quote:
Originally Posted by EndersGame

Here's an example of a thread discussion like that, which also mentions that fact:

https://boardgamegeek.com/thread/1595976/riffle-shuffling

Serious boardgamers can take their shuffling pretty seriously, and some of them are even familiar with terms like "faro shuffling".  


Interesting thread.

These guys even know the difference between in-faro and out-faro ... but some of them made wrong statements like "26 in-faros are needed to recover the order of a deck of 52 cards", it is  the opposite ordering what is recovered. 

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sjrwheeler

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Reply with quote  #18 

Quote:
Originally Posted by EndersGame


Out of curiosity, sjrwheeler, what is your favourite card game that your friend claimed she was unbeatable at?



My favourite game is called Slam (https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2008/nov/22/rules-card-games-slam). I've been unbeatable at it for the last 10 years. My sister finally beat me this Christmas, and this new friend did indeed beat me! In both cases it was a good battle. 
It's a game which doesn't really rely on luck, more important is skill, fast reactions, and quickly observing multiple rapidly changing conditions! 

According to the rules on the link above you can pick up your final 5 cards and hide them. We don't play that way, my family all pick up their last card only, but I like to keep my card on the table. 
Also, not mentioned at the site above, you can tease your opponents. If you have the last card and you are going to "slam" after playing it you can pretend to play it to trick them into "slamming" and then when they take their hand away you can quickly go. 
And to try to be extra fair we insist that you cannot slam with the same hand that plays the card, otherwise there is no chance the other player could get their hand on the slam packet. So if you play your last card with the left hand you must slam with your right hand. 

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EndersGame

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Reply with quote  #19 
Thanks for sharing that about Slam.

I love card games and have studied a lot of them.  This particular one more commonly goes under the name Spit:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spit_(card_game)

There's quite a few different variations of game-play, some are listed here:

https://www.pagat.com/patience/spit.html

But you're right that skill and fast reactions are usually key to determining the winner, and it can be fast and frenzied, and fun to watch as well!

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"Instead of attempting to learn a great number of tricks, concentrate upon a few good tricks and master them so that their technique and their presentation is so excellent that those who see them will want to see them again." -Expert Card Technique
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sjrwheeler

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Reply with quote  #20 

Thanks for those links! I'd never heard of it as Spit before. Perhaps more people will know what I mean if I start calling it that.

How're you at the game? 
Do you have a favourite card game?

 

I've also just remembered a game I used to play at school called Racing Demon which was similar in some ways:

https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2008/nov/22/card-games-patience-racing-demon

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EndersGame

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Reply with quote  #21 
Yes, I have a lot of favourite card games!  Lately I've especially been enjoying Cribbage, Scopa, Le Truc, and Knock-Out Whist.  Trick taking games have always been a favourite.

You can see a complete list of my favourite card games, along with brief comments and discussion on each, here:

https://boardgamegeek.com/geeklist/171804

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"Instead of attempting to learn a great number of tricks, concentrate upon a few good tricks and master them so that their technique and their presentation is so excellent that those who see them will want to see them again." -Expert Card Technique
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sjrwheeler

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Reply with quote  #22 
Thank you, I'll enjoy reading through those when I get home from work! 
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StevePR104

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Reply with quote  #23 
As someone who enjoys the faro, I use it quite frequently.  I've found the best tip I can offer it to use a solid deck of cards...preferably a never-used deck (yes, Harry, I know).  When I open the deck, I tend to immediately go into Darwin Ortiz' "Si Stebbins Secret" from "Darwin Ortiz at the Card Table," which airs out the deck, and ends the deck in Stebbins order.  It requires two perfect in-faros.  I use Aristocrats wherever possible; they are cut well, and the smooth edges make it far easier for me to do the work with a minimum of hassle.

I've found that the faro is not one of those moves that can be performed blindly; others may be able to do it, but not me.  But doing a perfect faro is one of those things that can be improved upon the more you do it.  (Talk about performing under fire:  I performed an effect this last weekend at 4F that was dependent on a perfect in-faro; nailed it the first time.)

Our own Nicolas Pierri has written extensively about the faro.  Nico's work is solid, and I can highly recommend it.
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Robin Dawes

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Reply with quote  #24 
Those who enjoy card games may like this site: https://www.denexa.com/alphabetical-game-index/

For the price of your email address you can get a pdf containing all the games in their index.
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Robin Dawes

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Reply with quote  #25 
Returning to the topic of the faro shuffle, I have seen professional magicians make a point of calling attention to the fact that they are doing a perfect shuffle.  The lines go something like this:  "I'm going to shuffle the cards and I want you to see that it's a perfect shuffle - I'm not doing anything sneaky."  This gives cover while they take whatever time is needed to make the weave perfect.  I guess the psychology is that the audience is supposed to think "Well, Mysto isn't hiding anything there so it can't be very important." 

BTW, Steve's performance at 4F was outstanding - one particular moment when a gravity-gust came through showed true savoir-faire.

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Anthony Vinson

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Reply with quote  #26 
Gravity gust? What a wonderful turn of phrase! Mind if I use it sometime?

Av
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Mike Powers

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Reply with quote  #27 
The question at hand is a very good one. It did ask about outs.

It's quite conceivable that even the best Faro worker will find that a corner has been bruised or crimped which is causing trouble. I think an out is needed for this eventuality.

I used to nail the faro virtually every time, at least on the 2nd try. But now, with my 72 year old eyes, I'm having more trouble nailing IN/OUT. I probably need a new prescription and new glasses. Hopefully that'll put me back in the game. Off center Faros are pretty easy to nail. But cutting 26/26 and nailing IN/OUT and not having a discrepancy can be dicey. 

I found that few Faro tricks I like to perform in the "real world" can be modified so that IN/OUT etc isn't an issue. But nailing a sandwich requires precision and no discrepancies. 

Mike
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Anthony Vinson

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Reply with quote  #28 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Powers
But now, with my 72 year old eyes, I'm having more trouble nailing IN/OUT. I probably need a new prescription..."


Taken out of context that takes on a whole new meaning. [wink] Sorry, couldn't resist. Okay, yeah, I could've, but I didn't!

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Robin Dawes

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Reply with quote  #29 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anthony Vinson
Gravity gust? What a wonderful turn of phrase! Mind if I use it sometime?

Av


Sure!  I didn't originate it ... I wish I could tell you who did.  I probably first heard it 30 years ago.
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Rudy Tinoco

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Reply with quote  #30 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anthony Vinson
Gravity gust? What a wonderful turn of phrase! Mind if I use it sometime?

Av


I'd love to hear more about how this "gravity gust" and how Mike dealt with it 😉

Do tell.

Rudy

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Mike Powers

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Reply with quote  #31 
LMAO Anthony!
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Pinhead52

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Reply with quote  #32 
Quote:
Originally Posted by StevePR104
As someone who enjoys the faro, I use it quite frequently.  I've found the best tip I can offer it to use a solid deck of cards...preferably a never-used deck (yes, Harry, I know).  When I open the deck, I tend to immediately go into Darwin Ortiz' "Si Stebbins Secret" from "Darwin Ortiz at the Card Table," which airs out the deck and ends the deck in Stebbins order.  It requires two perfect in-faros.  I use Aristocrats wherever possible; they are cut well, and the smooth edges make it far easier for me to do the work with a minimum of hassle.


I'll have to second this. If I get a chance to start a "set" with a brand new deck, I immediately put it in Si Stebbins, do a fast card guess, then riffle and keep moving. This is the only time I ever Faro, and if I mess up, I have a few outs.

First, if the mess up is near one of the ends and I can manually fix it, but it's obvious that I'm messing with the cards I say "hang on a second, if I move the card over it'll be perfect, and that allows me to do this", then do a large fan, followed by a one-handed bridge. That only works once though.

Of course with Si Stebbins, depending on how egregious the error is, I might notice it, realize that I'm increasing my chances of failure, and move on anyway. That first trick is based on being fast, having only about a 70% success rate, and getting the ball rolling on magic.
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