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Ben Morris-Rains

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Reply with quote  #1 
Hey everyone,

I haven't been active much, been busy with school. I have a utility move coming out in Genii in the August edition I believe and a product coming out with SansMinds so be on the lookout for that. 

Anyways, I have been playing around with an effect and I had a few different solutions, but finally figured the most direct route works the best. 

It is basically a spectator open prediction(spec. picks the prediction card). This is done with the face up pack spread on the table, everyone else's eyes closed and the magicians back turned, so only the spectator knows the identity of the card they selected. They turn it face down in the deck and the deck is squared. 

The rest of the moves in the trick are pretty standard, but the main problem was you had to figure out the identity of the card they selected. The parameters were no stacks, mark's etc. Completely impromptu and or borrowed deck. 

I had a pretty decent solution with reversing an indifferent card on the bottom (face down in a faceup deck), using the natural bow to cut to the card and cutting their selection to the bottom. From there, you can peek the card on the bottom (their selection) and do what you need to to force the mate. 

This had some illogical moves (the cutting) and too many sleights. This had to appear as hands off as possible. 

The final solution is a center peek. I personally haven't read any, but after some googling found there are some in print.

I watched a demo of Jim Swain doing his Ghost Peek and it still was super cramped and looked like a move. 

I came up with a solution and it is one handed. It basically uses a charlier cut type of action to split the pack in the hands at the natural break formed by the reversed card (The deck must be inwardly bowed before they reverse their selection). The pack is held in the hands in a modified Charlier grip, but held by the short ends, not the long ends. 

Quick demo: 



This isn't necessarily easy, but it isn't really hard. The hardest part is keeping the halves aligned and the split in the rear small. Inertia/gravity help with this move as well and it is done while talking. As I mentioned, the grip is modified to keep the pack aligned. The split is small and the peek/glimpse is fast. It shouldn't appear as anything has happened at all. Only works if the deck is in the left hand. 


Anyone heard of any moves similar? I appreciate your help! 

-Ben

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Mike Powers

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Reply with quote  #2 
A video would be helpful.

Marlo has a nice center peek where you sidejog the selection to the right just enough so that the index shows. Now you begin to rotate the right hand clockwise and up a bit so that the left hand can take it with fingers on the left and thumb on the right. You get the peek as the pack angles away from you. Then, the left hand pushes the card flush as it takes the deck in the continuing all around square up. 

It sounds like this might not work for your application though.

Mike
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Ben Morris-Rains

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Reply with quote  #3 
Hey Mike, 

Thanks, but I have the solution I want, just wondered if there was any material that I can credit/pursue so I am not "reinventing the wheel." I didn't really want to have two hands on the deck during the move, it is also an entirely free selection and the deck is handled by the spectator the entire time during the selection/reversal. They can shuffle, pick a card, reverse it, and square the pack. Those are the parameters. 

Here is a quick impromptu video of just the peek, not the effect. I will also add it to the main post. 





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magicfish

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Reply with quote  #4 
Ben, help me understand. Is this a secret reversal?
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luvisi

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Reply with quote  #5 
Hi Ben,

The idea of peeking a card in the middle of the deck by opening the deck is very old, as is the idea of doing this with one hand.

For example, see:
https://archive.org/stream/in.ernet.dli.2015.219102/2015.219102.Modern-Magic#page/n54/mode/1up
https://www.loc.gov/resource/rbc.2010houd11604/?sp=172

Card Manipulations 5 has a peek based on dropping the lower half of the deck in a Charlier style action, but it is far less subtle than your move. It also contains a one handed center peek based on forming a step.

Andru
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Ben Morris-Rains

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Reply with quote  #6 
Quote:
Originally Posted by luvisi
Hi Ben,

The idea of peeking a card in the middle of the deck by opening the deck is very old, as is the idea of doing this with one hand.

For example, see:
https://archive.org/stream/in.ernet.dli.2015.219102/2015.219102.Modern-Magic#page/n54/mode/1up
https://www.loc.gov/resource/rbc.2010houd11604/?sp=172

Card Manipulations 5 has a peek based on dropping the lower half of the deck in a Charlier style action, but it is far less subtle than your move. It also contains a one handed center peek based on forming a step.

Andru


Hi Andy, this is great info thank you. In the context of the trick I am working on, the benefits of my handling outweigh the methods you mentioned IMO, but it is all dependent on the natural break created by the reversed card. These methods are still great for when the selection is returned normally.

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Ben Morris-Rains

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Reply with quote  #7 
Quote:
Originally Posted by magicfish
Ben, help me understand. Is this a secret reversal?


Nope, just a peek of a card that has been openly selected and reversed in the pack by a spectator.

The effect is a spectator selects and reverses a card. This card is only known to that spectator. They choose a second person to participate. The deck is cut and the card they cut to reversed as well. Both cards are mates. The card being put in the back reversed isn't very justified, but it helps "lock the selection in and preserves mystery" is how I'm going to sell it.

Basically it is an open prediction where the predicted card is selected by a spectator.

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luvisi

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Reply with quote  #8 
You're most welcome. I wasn't trying to talk you into a different move, just sharing some ideas with similarities that you may or may not wish to credit.

Also, here's an older reference for the Charlier glimpse.
https://archive.org/stream/neweracardtrick00gossgoog#page/n48/mode/1up

Andru
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Ben Morris-Rains

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Reply with quote  #9 
Quote:
Originally Posted by luvisi
You're most welcome. I wasn't trying to talk you into a different move, just sharing some ideas with similarities that you may or may not wish to credit. Also, here's an older reference for the Charlier glimpse. https://archive.org/stream/neweracardtrick00gossgoog#page/n48/mode/1up Andru


Yeah my bad, I didn't want it to come off like that, I was kind of just typing what I was thinking which probably came off like I was defending myself. 

What I meant was, I can see the benefits of both moves and again, I thank you for the sources. That is exactly what I was looking for, just some history and other methods to explore. 

The method from New Era Card Tricks is interesting. It is sort of the roots for what I am doing, except there is no need for a step or a force. 

Most "new" sleights or ideas are just a combination of old ideas anyways, so I had figured this was already done somewhere and it more or less was. Still a great way to peek a card in the center of the deck with minimal moves. 

P.S.: These are some great sources in general. Glad to see Google preserving these older books. 

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rready

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Reply with quote  #10 
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luvisi

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Reply with quote  #11 
No worries. No offense taken, I was just trying to clarify.

I try to be charitable in how I interpret people online since misunderstandings are so easy.

http://www.wired.com/2006/02/the-secret-cause-of-flame-wars

Andru
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luvisi

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Reply with quote  #12 
FYI, I just ran across the idea of using the natural break from a reversed card to open the deck, make a jog, and get a peek, in the trick "Fechter's Brainwave" in Magician Nightly (reprinted in Fechter).

The handling is entirely different from yours. The only similarity is the use of the natural bridge to find a reversed card in the deck.

Andru
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MagicTK

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Reply with quote  #13 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ben Morris-Rains
Hey everyone,


I came up with a solution and it is one handed. It basically uses a charlier cut type of action to split the pack in the hands at the natural break formed by the reversed card (The deck must be inwardly bowed before they reverse their selection). The pack is held in the hands in a modified Charlier grip, but held by the short ends, not the long ends. 

This isn't necessarily easy, but it isn't really hard. The hardest part is keeping the halves aligned and the split in the rear small. Inertia/gravity help with this move as well and it is done while talking. As I mentioned, the grip is modified to keep the pack aligned. The split is small and the peek/glimpse is fast. It shouldn't appear as anything has happened at all. Only works if the deck is in the left hand


Anyone heard of any moves similar? I appreciate your help! 

-Ben


Just curious about two things.
  1. What is the reason you need to hold the pack by the short ends rather than standard Charlier grip?  Like is there a technical reason for needing to do it that way?
  2. Why does it only work if the deck is in the left hand?
I don't know of any sources as of this moment.
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Ben Morris-Rains

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Reply with quote  #14 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MagicTK


Just curious about two things.
  1. What is the reason you need to hold the pack by the short ends rather than standard Charlier grip?  Like is there a technical reason for needing to do it that way?
  2. Why does it only work if the deck is in the left hand?
I don't know of any sources as of this moment.


Hey, 

1.) You can hold it in the normal Charlier grip if you would like, but for me, I found that when it is held by the short ends the index can be glimpsed easier and with less of an unnatural wrist turn. When it is in short end grip, you can simply rotate your wrist inwards towards yourself and glimpse the index. For me, this feels more natural. It seems like it puts the index directly in my line of vision when I look downwards, rather than having to adjust a bit if it is in normal grip. Both are moot points and it could be done either way or whatever works best for you. 

2.) It must be done with the left hand because of the location of the pips. If done in the right hand you will only see blank space. 

-Ben

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