Sign up Latest Topics Chat
 
 
 


Reply
  Author   Comment  
Mind Phantom

Avatar / Picture

Honored Member
Registered:
Posts: 1,239
Reply with quote  #1 
You never here the talk about the Glide anymore at magic clubs, or magic fourms or even books & DVDS.

Do you do any routines that use the Glide? I do a card effect which I don't know the name of and that's because the guy that taught me how to do the trick didn't have a name for it.

What other moves do you do like the Glide that don't get much attention anymore, the other one I can think of is the Gamblers Cop.

Just thinking out loud.

Logan,
0
Harry Lorayne

Avatar / Picture

Honored Member
Registered:
Posts: 2,123
Reply with quote  #2 
    Look up my Guess Quotient. You guys really gotta' start reading the good stuff!
0
Rudy Tinoco

Founding Member
Registered:
Posts: 4,123
Reply with quote  #3 
I’ve never really liked the glide. Even in the hands of someone as talented as Steve Dacri, the move (in my opinion) doesn’t look natural to me. For example, look at this performance of Wild Card and the unmotivated way in which the packet is turned face up and face down while tabling cards.



Rudy

__________________
http://www.facebook.com/magicrudy
http://www.facebook.com/themagiciansforum
0
arthur stead

Inner Circle
Registered:
Posts: 571
Reply with quote  #4 
I use the Glide and it works for me!  There are some variations on the original move, too (for example one by Al Leech).  I've never never had a problem with it, and never had anyone "raise an eyebrow" when I've used it.
__________________
http://www.arthurstead.com
0
Chi Han

Honored Member
Registered:
Posts: 1,037
Reply with quote  #5 
I use it for one routine by John Carney. Real fun stuff. The move is good, but a move should be used when you have a need for it. I rarely need to show a bottom card then change it for the second from bottom card.
0
JohnnyNewYork

Inner Circle
Registered:
Posts: 231
Reply with quote  #6 
Hello Logan Five! I use the Glide rarely, ONLY when it fits well with the routine (for example, Bill Malone’s handling of Dr. Dailey’s Last Trick — although there are many variants of that routine that avoid the Glide entirely). Although I love the way Steve Dacri handles the cards in the clip shared by Rudy above, I definitely would never use a Glide several times in a row no matter how expiedient it is. When I use the Glide, I use a subtle and well-known convincer: Displaying the face of the bottom card of the packet in the LH, I gesture/touch the face card with my RH middle finger and MAINTAIN contact with the card as my LH turns the packet face down (in the clip mentioned above it looks like Dacri breaks contact for a moment); I think the constant contact really helps the move. There’s also a “Side Glide” which sometimes seems more natural than the traditional approach, although I have never performed a routine that required it (but it is sometimes an option, I guess). Since you mentioned the Gambler’s Cop in your post, I don’t do much palming in the routines that I perform regularly, but I sometimes “ditch” cards using the Cop when I can justify the actions naturally. By the way, there’s a great cover for the Cop (not sure where it originated) which seems to work very well for me: Holding the deck in both hands with the LH ready to cop the bottom cards, I reach into MY left coat pocket with my RH looking to remove a pen or something as if I can’t remember which pocket the pen is in, THEN take the deck in my RH momentarily as my LH (copping the cards) reaches into to MY right coat pocket to remove the pen and secretly ditch the cards. As Rudy pointed out, I guess we always look for moves that we can present logically and naturally. Greats like Bill Malone and Harry Lorayne make miracles regularly using all kinds of moves (“If the shoe fits.....”); the Jinx Switch in Ed Marlo’s hands was absolutely devastating! Sorry for the rather long post — thanks for another great topic, Logan Five! — johnny
0
Mike Powers

Avatar / Picture

Honored Member
Registered:
Posts: 1,654
Reply with quote  #7 
The glide is one of the moves that a number of lay people know. The standard method looks bogus and draws attention to itself.

I find that a "side glide" is more natural. Pull the top card over via a Kelly BP type action and use the left 2nd finger to draw out the 2nd from bottom card to the left. It's not great, but I think it's better than the standard move.

Mike
0
Waterman

Avatar / Picture

Inner Circle
Registered:
Posts: 565
Reply with quote  #8 
I think Steve Dacri had the most beautifully manicured fingernails in all of magic. 
0
Bulla

Inner Circle
Registered:
Posts: 186
Reply with quote  #9 
I think the main reason that no one really talks about it is that it's simple and easy to understand.  People generally don't misunderstand it or have any questions about it so it rarely comes up in conversation.  I also use the side glide in replace of the normal one for the reasons already mentioned but I can't say I have a lot of routines that require it.

0
Gareth

Inner Circle
Registered:
Posts: 785
Reply with quote  #10 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Harry Lorayne
    Look up my Guess Quotient. You guys really gotta' start reading the good stuff!


Second that. One of my complete favourites. Thank you Harry.

Vernon's Glide in More Inner Secrets is worth your time.
0
SpareTopChange

Inner Circle
Registered:
Posts: 282
Reply with quote  #11 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rudy Tinoco
I’ve never really liked the glide. Even in the hands of someone as talented as Steve Dacri, the move (in my opinion) doesn’t look natural to me. For example, look at this performance of Wild Card and the unmotivated way in which the packet is turned face up and face down while tabling cards.



Rudy

Cool video!  I thought the glide looked pretty natural there; I'm surprised you didn't like it, Rudy.  I thought the only unnatural-looking thing was towards the beginning when he showed the faces of all the cards.

This actually reminds me of an effect that Michael Close does where he asks someone her name, writes it on a card, and then "copies" it onto a bunch of blank cards.  I think he even has her pick a color marker at random.

JohnnyNewYork:  Thanks for explaining the convincer of maintaining contact as you turn the packet down.
0
Harry Lorayne

Avatar / Picture

Honored Member
Registered:
Posts: 2,123
Reply with quote  #12 
    I actually use the side glide for my Guess Quotient. I teach that in the write-up. Start reading the good stuff, guys!
0
Bmat

Inner Circle
Registered:
Posts: 270
Reply with quote  #13 
ESP Wild.  The only issue that I have with the glide and it is the same issue I have with any other move.  If its done badly it sucks.  If it is done well, you can create miracles.

One of the things I've learned, and I've been around magic a lot and have seen and met some of the best of the best, is that its never the move itself.  Some may have issues with it and may never get it, could be mental, could be physical, whatever..doesn't matter.  Chances are however that if you have been around long enough, somebody has fooled the pants off of you with it.  

Rudy stated above that he doesn't like the glide, that it doesn't look natural.  But here is the thing, (and I am not saying this is necessarily the case) but how many times may it have been executed in front of you, and you never had a clue?  The knee jerk reaction is never.   But the real answer is you don't know what you don't know, so it is possible.

__________________
bmat10@wordpress.com
0
Waterman

Avatar / Picture

Inner Circle
Registered:
Posts: 565
Reply with quote  #14 
I was reamed by a fellow magician years ago for using the double undercut as a control. Therapy helped me overcome my insecurities with that move...along with not performing for other magicians so much.
0
Anthony Vinson

Avatar / Picture

Honored Member - Moderator
Registered:
Posts: 2,001
Reply with quote  #15 
I do not like the glide. Never have. I find it clunky, unnatural, and obvious. That said, I think like a magician, not a layperson, and that often puts me at a disadvantage. If, after careful analysis, the glide is the most efficient method by which to accomplish an effect, then that's that. And if that's that then for goodness sake make certain that when you perform the move that it is a) in context, and b) appears natural based on the in transit action. As for me, there are plenty of effects not requiring the glide...

Av 
0
Harry Lorayne

Avatar / Picture

Honored Member
Registered:
Posts: 2,123
Reply with quote  #16 
   Gotta' speak for yourself, Av. "Ain't" clunky, unnatural and obvious when I do it. If it was, I wouldn't do it.
0
Bob Farmer

Honored Member
Registered:
Posts: 191
Reply with quote  #17 
To make the Glide look more deceptive, hold the packet face up, place your second finger on the top face-up card and simultaneously turn the packet down and the other hand palm up as you take the card. This way it looks as if you touched and removed the card in one smooth action.

Do not turn the packet face down and THEN bring the hand over to remove the card.
0
arthur stead

Inner Circle
Registered:
Posts: 571
Reply with quote  #18 
Spot on, Bob!
__________________
http://www.arthurstead.com
0
SpareTopChange

Inner Circle
Registered:
Posts: 282
Reply with quote  #19 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bmat

One of the things I've learned, and I've been around magic a lot and have seen and met some of the best of the best, is that its never the move itself.  Some may have issues with it and may never get it, could be mental, could be physical, whatever..doesn't matter.  Chances are however that if you have been around long enough, somebody has fooled the pants of you with it.  

Ok with that in mind, what do you think is the key to doing the glide in a deceptive way?  The subtlety that Bob was talking about or is there more to it in your opinion?
0
Bob Farmer

Honored Member
Registered:
Posts: 191
Reply with quote  #20 
There's more to it: you have to get into position as a logical consequence of the trick--you have to flow into the move, not stop and assume the position. 
0
Mike Powers

Avatar / Picture

Honored Member
Registered:
Posts: 1,654
Reply with quote  #21 
Check Ed Marlo's "A Glide Variation." It's from New Tops (May 1965). It can also be found in M.I.N.T. on page 157.

M
0
Mbreggar

Avatar / Picture

Inner Circle
Registered:
Posts: 268
Reply with quote  #22 
Ive gotta check out Harry’s version but I think the glide is underused. When framed properly it is an excellent sleight. One of the tricks that has always been an audience favorite in my sets is “Design for Laughter” from the “Royal Road”. Or check out Roberto Giobbi’s version “The Coue Test”. Folks love it. It will be in my set forever
Don’t dis da glide!
0
SpareTopChange

Inner Circle
Registered:
Posts: 282
Reply with quote  #23 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Powers
Check Ed Marlo's "A Glide Variation." It's from New Tops (May 1965). It can also be found in M.I.N.T. on page 157.

M

I just looked this up, and unfortunately this typifies what I dislike about some magic books.  Maybe it's just me, but I truly cannot understand the description.  In particular, I can't figure out how my right thumb nail is supposed "engage" the edge of two cards "at the back end".

Does anyone feel like doing a demo? 😉
0
DJ

Inner Circle
Registered:
Posts: 272
Reply with quote  #24 
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpareTopChange

I just looked this up, and unfortunately this typifies what I dislike about some magic books.  Maybe it's just me, but I truly cannot understand the description.  In particular, I can't figure out how my right thumb nail is supposed "engage" the edge of two cards "at the back end".


The way I read it, it looks like you use your thumb nail to gauge 2 cards. Similar to a strike double but with the thumb on the short side. 

__________________
Dan
0
arthur stead

Inner Circle
Registered:
Posts: 571
Reply with quote  #25 

The Al Leech variation of the glide is called the Snide.  I have it on page 53 of The Complete Al Leech.  It’s interesting what he wrote about the (original) glide:  

“The only trouble with the standard glide is that it must be done perfectly, without the slightest hesitation, to de deceptive.  And to do it perfectly requires a sensitive touch, almost as sure as that required in second dealing.”  

He then goes on to explain the Snide as an easier, more deceptive, and more foolproof variation.


__________________
http://www.arthurstead.com
0
Chi Han

Honored Member
Registered:
Posts: 1,037
Reply with quote  #26 
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpareTopChange

I just looked this up, and unfortunately this typifies what I dislike about some magic books.  Maybe it's just me, but I truly cannot understand the description.  In particular, I can't figure out how my right thumb nail is supposed "engage" the edge of two cards "at the back end".

Does anyone feel like doing a demo? 😉


At the end it suggests beveling the cards to make this a little easier. But what you're trying to do is treat the face card and the second from face card as one, like a double lift etc...Your thumbnail pushes those two together.

Videos are pretty good, I usually prefer books and texts. Admittedly both mediums can be taught poorly.
0
Mike Powers

Avatar / Picture

Honored Member
Registered:
Posts: 1,654
Reply with quote  #27 
The main goal is to outjog a double as a single. You don't have to use the right thumbnail as described. I don't. You can spread the deck and square up as you obtain a break under the two cards at the face. Now place the right first finger on the double as shown in M.I.N.T. The right thumb is at the inner short edge so it can actually do the pushing as the right finger moves forward. It seems that you must be pushing a single forward. But the thumb is the actual source of the movement. And, thus, you're pushing a double forward. 

Now the right 2nd finger touches the face of the exposed card of the double and pushes it flush with deck as the left hand rotates to palm downward. This is a secret action. It leaves a single card outjogged, assumed to be the face card seen previously. This action also leaves your right thumb in a very natural position to work with the right second finger in pulling the outjogged card free.

In a normal Glide, the deck is squared. With the Marlo variation which, BTW, is based on an Edward Victor idea, the card seems to be outjogged and in view the entire time. It's much more convincing.

Mike
0
François Lagrange

Inner Circle
Registered:
Posts: 102
Reply with quote  #28 

The Marlo sleight, as described, is a bit of a pipe dream. Not that it’s impossible but it would require a lot of practice to make sure-fire and fluid.

IMHO, if you’re going to use a get-ready (i.e. a break under two cards), you might as well execute a one-handed or two-handed second deal. It’ll look more natural and will be easy enough to perform (because of the break) - and I believe will take less time to master than the original Marlo's Glide Variation.

0
Bmat

Inner Circle
Registered:
Posts: 270
Reply with quote  #29 
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpareTopChange

Ok with that in mind, what do you think is the key to doing the glide in a deceptive way?  The subtlety that Bob was talking about or is there more to it in your opinion?


Great question but difficult to answer.  Yes there is more to it.  See Bob Farmers answer and all the rest.  

The key (in my opinion) is being natural.  But what is 'natural?'  you have to understand yourself, your mannerisms, how you get in and out of situations and incorporate that into the execution of the move. 

See above where Harry Lorayne said, "Gotta' speak for yourself, Av. "Ain't" clunky, unnatural and obvious when I do it. If it was, I wouldn't do it."

Harry does things very fast, everything he does is fast and direct, he is constant motion and I am sure his glide fits right in.  I've never seen him do it so I don't know.   But what I bet is that I have seen him perform and perform the glide and just never put it together so I've never, 'seen' it if you know what I mean.  And that is the point.  He knows his style and what it takes him to execute a move.  

Unlike so many, I want to be fooled.  I don't watch another magician and try to figure it out.  I hate figuring it out. I tend to watch style and presentation.  And if they make me laugh all I want to do is laugh, I stop caring about the magic.  I know, I know shoot me now. 

If I start watching with the idea to figure it out I can almost always do so, I know what has to happen, I know what must be done in order to make that happen.  So yes, I will usually know what it takes to accomplish a certain act, and I can figure out the most direct method the magician will take and then I see it.  But then everything looks obvious and clunky to me if I watch in that perspective. 

I live in that world of suspension of disbelief.  There are a few exceptions of course.  Romain, Albert Goshman to name two.  I can know, I can watch, but I just can't see.   

__________________
bmat10@wordpress.com
0
Rudy Tinoco

Founding Member
Registered:
Posts: 4,123
Reply with quote  #30 
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpareTopChange

Cool video!  I thought the glide looked pretty natural there; I'm surprised you didn't like it, Rudy.  I thought the only unnatural-looking thing was towards the beginning when he showed the faces of all the cards.

This actually reminds me of an effect that Michael Close does where he asks someone her name, writes it on a card, and then "copies" it onto a bunch of blank cards.  I think he even has her pick a color marker at random.

JohnnyNewYork:  Thanks for explaining the convincer of maintaining contact as you turn the packet down.


I should explain what it is that I don't like about this particular handling of the glide.

In this clip, Steve subtly proves that all of the cards are blank. So why then should they be placed on the table in such a weird way. What I mean by "weird" is that if they're all blank, why not just table them from the same dealer's grip position. Just table them, FU, FD, FU, FD, FU, etc.

To constantly change the grip in order to turn the packet over (only because it facilitates the glide) looks unnatural (in my humble opinion).

Rudy

__________________
http://www.facebook.com/magicrudy
http://www.facebook.com/themagiciansforum
0
Mike Powers

Avatar / Picture

Honored Member
Registered:
Posts: 1,654
Reply with quote  #31 
What's weird on the video is doing the glide left handed and then dealing right handed. Why is he putting the cards into his right hand and then extracting a card with his left hand? Then he puts the packet it dealing position in his left hand and deals the top card normally. Very strange handling.

If he's right handed, he should hold the cards in glide position in the left hand and extract the face card with his right hand, tabling it face down. Then he could just leave the cards in glide position in the left hand and simply pull the top card to the right with his right hand, finally turning it face up and placing it on the face down card. That way the packet never changes its position in the left hand.

With a side-glide he could hold the packet FD in RH Biddle grip, flash the face and then side glide from the bottom. Then simply pull the top card free with the left hand and place it FU on top. 

In either case the glide looks a bit strange, but at least you don't move the packet from hand to hand for no reason.

Mike
0
culldavid

Inner Circle
Registered:
Posts: 93
Reply with quote  #32 
Looking through an old book "Impromptu Tricks for Every Occasion"by Annemann I found a trick called "Modern Monte"which has a very nice way of using the
glide.As the title suggests it is a Monte trick and can be found on page 42.
0
Rudy Tinoco

Founding Member
Registered:
Posts: 4,123
Reply with quote  #33 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Powers
What's weird on the video is doing the glide left handed and then dealing right handed. Why is he putting the cards into his right hand and then extracting a card with his left hand? Then he puts the packet it dealing position in his left hand and deals the top card normally. Very strange handling.

Mike


Amen 😉

Here is a quick video (I'm in bed and supposed to be studying) where I explain the reason why I'm not fond of the glide. I offer a different way of handling this type of effect. I don't have an explanation of the Wild Card readily available, so I'm not entirely sure if this would work.



Rudy

__________________
http://www.facebook.com/magicrudy
http://www.facebook.com/themagiciansforum
0
luigimar

Avatar / Picture

Honored Member - Moderator
Registered:
Posts: 1,075
Reply with quote  #34 
Paul Harris has an effect, Bizarre Twist, which has three phases. The last phase requires the Glide. It is the only effect where I use it and with just 3 cards, the Glide is easy to do and I think it does not look awkward. 

 

__________________
Luigimar
Magic is Within...
0
arthur stead

Inner Circle
Registered:
Posts: 571
Reply with quote  #35 
LOVE the Bizarre Twist!
__________________
http://www.arthurstead.com
0
SpareTopChange

Inner Circle
Registered:
Posts: 282
Reply with quote  #36 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rudy Tinoco


Amen 😉

Here is a quick video (I'm in bed and supposed to be studying) where I explain the reason why I'm not fond of the glide. I offer a different way of handling this type of effect. I don't have an explanation of the Wild Card readily available, so I'm not entirely sure if this would work.



Rudy

Thanks Mike for explaining and thanks Rudy for posting that video.  Makes perfect sense.
0
Chi Han

Honored Member
Registered:
Posts: 1,037
Reply with quote  #37 
There is a Larry Jennings routine with 4 aces that uses the glide for a peek.  It's called the Little Princess.  I don't actually use the glide for that routine, I do something else, but it might also be interesting for people who want to look at tricks with the glide that aren't just to false take a bottom card.
0
Blathermist

Honored Member
Registered:
Posts: 1,023
Reply with quote  #38 

I think any reasonably competent card handler can manage the Glide without difficulty--–technically, that is.

Bit for me it’s the grip, whether Side Glide or standard Glide that’s the problem. I agree with Rudy when says:

"To constantly change the grip in order to turn the packet over (only because it facilitates the glide) looks unnatural (in my humble opinion)."

True enough he was referring specifically to the Steve Dacri routine who does execute the move smoothly. But the grip looks mannered and artificial wherever it is. And that’s because it is.

I think this covers the question posed in the thread’s title. The Glide is still used, but not as much as it was. If it ever was used that much.

All that said, there is, as ever oodles of solid info on the subject. Also, what comes across is that, as always, it’s horses for courses. If we don’t like a move, procedure or whatever, we’re never going to be comfortable with it.

0
François Lagrange

Inner Circle
Registered:
Posts: 102
Reply with quote  #39 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Powers
...
 Then he could just leave the cards in glide position in the left hand and simply pull the top card to the right with his right hand, finally turning it face up and placing it on the face down card.
...

He could not do that as it would expose the "back side" of the face-up blank card, which shows a signed court face. However, it would be possible to extract it by holding the packet facing the audience and then pulling the card and drop it with blank side up. This would limit the bad angle to people sitting behind the performer.

Using a second deal is not very satisfactory as it is extremely difficult to pull off, as you have to hide some backs, without it to look fishy (hands dipping, left thumb fix/lifting etc). I believe, using a basic sleight with the correct choreography would be the way to go here.
0
arthur stead

Inner Circle
Registered:
Posts: 571
Reply with quote  #40 

Hey Rudy, I just watched the Steve Dacri video, and I agree with you:  The constant changing of hands and positions is troublesome.  

Whenever I handle the cards, I always work towards economy of movement.  By that I mean that I eliminate any unnecessary actions.  I also strive for consistency in motion, so as to avoid any suspicious-looking moves.  

So for example, when I display and card and place a card face down on the table, it looks exactly the same as when I secretly do a DL and place the card on the table.

And the same principles apply when performing the glide.


__________________
http://www.arthurstead.com
0
Harry Lorayne

Avatar / Picture

Honored Member
Registered:
Posts: 2,123
Reply with quote  #41 
   I think I must have written it a hundred times - when learning a sleight, do the natural/legitimate action a few times... then, make the sleight look EXACTLY like that. Seems so obvious.

    You also need a rationale for doing an action that's a bit different than the "natural" action. Example - somewhere I published a routine using the glide and the "rationale" was - "You may think the backs of these cards are marked - so I'll take cards from the bottom...can't see the backs then."   I use the same rationale in my routine, Guess Quotient.

     I change the words a bit since I'm always using a borrowed deck. Something like: "Some people think that a good card person can tell what's on the face of a card by looking at the back of the card...so I'll take cards from the bottom." A bit silly, but serves the purpose.
0
Rudy Tinoco

Founding Member
Registered:
Posts: 4,123
Reply with quote  #42 
Great comments all around. Thanks for the interesting conversation!

Rudy

__________________
http://www.facebook.com/magicrudy
http://www.facebook.com/themagiciansforum
0
Mike Powers

Avatar / Picture

Honored Member
Registered:
Posts: 1,654
Reply with quote  #43 
You're right Francois. I was thinking of the unnecessary changing of hands. Why not just do the glide while holding the cards in the left hand and then simply turn the left hand palm upward and peel a card. Something like this:

LINK   password TMF

Mike
0
arthur stead

Inner Circle
Registered:
Posts: 571
Reply with quote  #44 
Thanks great, Mike!  Thanks for the link to your demo.
__________________
http://www.arthurstead.com
0
François Lagrange

Inner Circle
Registered:
Posts: 102
Reply with quote  #45 
Yes Mike, you've nailed it! A tiny criticism: I see you're using Marlo's Glide Variation (with a get-ready). For consistency's sake, you could use the same pushing-out action for the singles.
0
Mike Powers

Avatar / Picture

Honored Member
Registered:
Posts: 1,654
Reply with quote  #46 
Good idea Francois.

Consistent actions tend to not draw attention to themselves. I always use a get ready on the Glide Variation. I don't trust my thumbnail to consistently get two cards. Maybe I'm just too lazy to practice!

Mike
0
Mike Powers

Avatar / Picture

Honored Member
Registered:
Posts: 1,654
Reply with quote  #47 
I was thinking of starting another thread to address the questions - 1. When is the glide the best choice for accomplishing a needed task? and 2. What are routines that use the glide when a better substitute is available.

I'm thinking that for Wild Card, a Hamman Count is often used to show seven backs and then seven faces, six blank with a non blank in the center. Then you can deal three FU cards from the face, flip the packet FD and deal three FD cards ending with a non blank and ready to go. Wouldn't that have been a better way for Steve D to begin?

Mike
0
Previous Topic | Next Topic
Print
Reply

Quick Navigation:

Easily create a Forum Website with Website Toolbox.