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Rudy Tinoco

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Reply with quote  #1 
Dai Vernon's "Out of Sight, Out of Mind" is a classic, but I never really like the handling.

Harvey Berg has been ripped a new one for having put out his effect, "Intercept".

Here's what Mr. Berg's version looks like with some additional touches by R. Paul Wilson.



Rudy

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Paul Hallas

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Reply with quote  #2 
I think the card change at the end possibly spoils it, Rudy. Surely all that will be remembered is that a card changed into their card (and there are many quicker ways to get to that). Simply being able to reveal the card under the impossible conditions (which should be emphasized) would be better, e.g. an apparent mind read. Just my thoughts anyway.
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Rudy Tinoco

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Reply with quote  #3 
Thanks for taking the time to watch my video and for offering your feedback. I appreciate it!

I've had great reactions to this trick over the years. I actually like the effect better when I don't get a direct hit and then resolve it by "magically" changing the wrong card to the right one.

It seems to me that there aren't very many tricks that seem to give the sense that they simply think of a card and you find it.

I'd love some examples from you that I could check out. I'm not so devoted to this method that I wouldn't give it up for a better one.

This one has just really worked for me.

Thanks again!

Rudy

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Paul Hallas

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Reply with quote  #4 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rudy Tinoco
It seems to me that there aren't very many tricks that seem to give the sense that they simply think of a card and you find it. Thanks again! Rudy


Actually there's quite a few, Rudy, but most in the mentalism literature which I've come across in my alter ego as a stand up performer. My interests are both close up and mentalism and so my library reflects both. I will get back to you with a few examples other than Osterlind's Radar Deck,  Kennedy's Mind Power Deck, Princess Card Trick, Paul Fox Gimmick etc. 

OK I'm back. More recently John Carey has been leaning towards some mental presentations with his card magic. An example is "Out of Sight, Change Your Mind" which appeared on his DVD "Keep Calm & Carey On!" I had a variation on that which appeared with John's permission in my "O.O.P.S 2" e-book available from Lybrary.com There are some others in his newer books. On that latter DVD is another called "It's The Thought That Counts" themed around an imaginary blackjack hand.

Liam Montier's "Henry Sugar" is a good mind reading card effect for those that don't do mentalism.

In my "Mindful Mentalism Vol.3" book I had one called "One For Rovi" a presentation of a Rovi effect with a presentation of mine he liked, also I discussed the 'think a card' plot there. The same effect was demonstrated on my "Clever Card Magic" DVD, with another good thought of card reveal effect called "43" (43 can be found in my "Magic From The Overground" book also). The plot was again discussed in the first part of my hardcover book "Mentalism With Cards" which discussed/references various think of a card methods. That's now only available as an e-book.

But back to the routine you showed above. You like it and have done it for years and you say you actually like it better when you don't get a direct hit. I'm really not familiar with the ins and outs of that effect, but could you not purposely get the close hit every time? E.g. You know they picked a QC but you show a JC or QS? You like to do the change and changes ARE very magical. So keep the ending you like and get rid of that selection procedure.

The effect demonstrated to me seemed to be that you failed to get the mental selection, so to save the day used magic to turn the wrong card into the right card! In which case the clever procedure for the card selection doesn't really seem relevant.

Here's a thought. Hand a spectator a deck for shuffling. Take it back flip it face up and quickly spread them out commenting, "You have to agree this is a well mixed up deck now, yes?" In doing so quickly look for a matching pair, two red eights together, two black queens etc. or the next best thing two cards of the same suit but one apart like a seven and eight. You can usually find something like this in a shuffled deck.Close the spread obtaining a break at the couple you want, then cut them to the bottom of the face up deck. Flip the deck face down so the pair is on top. You can have the spectator do an Ose false cut and re-assemble the deck, or false cut it yourself. Say, "In a moment, I'm going to have you think of and concentrate on a card, but so that your image will be really clear I want you to physically see one. "

Force the top card (by your favorite method) "Try and burn that image into your mind". Spread the face down deck on the table. "When I turn my head, slide the target card back into the deck anywhere you like and close up the deck ....Have you done that? Great". 

You turn back and pick up the deck turning the faces toward yourself, "Just keep thinking of that card and nothing else but that card" you say as you are spreading through the deck looking for the card that matches the top card in color and value, when you see it upjog it and place it at the back of the deck. Turn the deck face down. OK I committed myself, just answer me yes or no, is this it?" Double turnover, they say 'no'. Turn the double back down and deal the top card to one side, "Yes or no was I close?"  they answer 'yes'.   "OK, look into my eyes, I'm going to try and hypnotize you into thinking I got the card you were thinking of..." Snap your fingers and smile, asking,  "Did it work?"  They answer 'no, you say "Are you sure?" And point at the card. They turn it over, end of trick.

That was just my thought on it, I think that would play just as well, basically the same ending (but being very close every time) and retaining the card change. Of course, everyones thought processes are different, you may not like the approach I suggested at all, but I was just giving some input.
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Rudy Tinoco

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Reply with quote  #5 
Packet trick guy! Who the heck our you? [smile]

I love the way you think. I can't wait to try your idea with a deck in hand. I also need to try and get my hands on some of the items you've mentioned. I've seen the Mind Power deck, but never went to so far as to purchase it. Part of the reason is that I just don't like I really like to worked from a borrowed/shuffled deck. The only exception that I make is that I will always carry a deck that in a memorized order.

I'll give John Carey's DVD another look. I remember seeing that effect, but must not have liked the method because I didn't give up my version for his.

I'm also going to check out the Lybrary site to look at your book.

Thanks again for your insightful and helpful reply!

Rudy


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Rudy Tinoco

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Reply with quote  #6 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Packet trick guy
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rudy Tinoco
It seems to me that there aren't very many tricks that seem to give the sense that they simply think of a card and you find it. Thanks again! Rudy


Actually there's quite a few, Rudy, but most in the mentalism literature which I've come across in my alter ego as a stand up performer. My interests are both close up and mentalism and so my library reflects both. I will get back to you with a few examples other than Osterlind's Radar Deck,  Kennedy's Mind Power Deck, Princess Card Trick, Paul Fox Gimmick etc. 

OK I'm back. More recently John Carey has been leaning towards some mental presentations with his card magic. An example is "Out of Sight, Change Your Mind" which appeared on his DVD "Keep Calm & Carey On!" I had a variation on that which appeared with John's permission in my "O.O.P.S 2" e-book available from Lybrary.com There are some others in his newer books. On that latter DVD is another called "It's The Thought That Counts" themed around an imaginary blackjack hand.

Liam Montier's "Henry Sugar" is a good mind reading card effect for those that don't do mentalism.

In my "Mindful Mentalism Vol.3" book I had one called "One For Rovi" a presentation of a Rovi effect with a presentation of mine he liked, also I discussed the 'think a card' plot there. The same effect was demonstrated on my "Clever Card Magic" DVD, with another good thought of card reveal effect called "43" (43 can be found in my "Magic From The Overground" book also). The plot was again discussed in the first part of my hardcover book "Mentalism With Cards" which discussed/references various think of a card methods. That's now only available as an e-book.

But back to the routine you showed above. You like it and have done it for years and you say you actually like it better when you don't get a direct hit. I'm really not familiar with the ins and outs of that effect, but could you not purposely get the close hit every time? E.g. You know they picked a QC but you show a JC or QS? You like to do the change and changes ARE very magical. So keep the ending you like and get rid of that selection procedure.

The effect demonstrated to me seemed to be that you failed to get the mental selection, so to save the day used magic to turn the wrong card into the right card! In which case the clever procedure for the card selection doesn't really seem relevant.

Here's a thought. Hand a spectator a deck for shuffling. Take it back flip it face up and quickly spread them out commenting, "You have to agree this is a well mixed up deck now, yes?" In doing so quickly look for a matching pair, two red eights together, two black queens etc. or the next best thing two cards of the same suit but one apart like a seven and eight. You can usually find something like this in a shuffled deck.Close the spread obtaining a break at the couple you want, then cut them to the bottom of the face up deck. Flip the deck face down so the pair is on top. You can have the spectator do an Ose false cut and re-assemble the deck, or false cut it yourself. Say, "In a moment, I'm going to have you think of and concentrate on a card, but so that your image will be really clear I want you to physically see one. "

Force the top card (by your favorite method) "Try and burn that image into your mind". Spread the face down deck on the table. "When I turn my head, slide the target card back into the deck anywhere you like and close up the deck ....Have you done that? Great". 

You turn back and pick up the deck turning the faces toward yourself, "Just keep thinking of that card and nothing else but that card" you say as you are spreading through the deck looking for the card that matches the top card in color and value, when you see it upjog it and place it at the back of the deck. Turn the deck face down. OK I committed myself, just answer me yes or no, is this it?" Double turnover, they say 'no'. Turn the double back down and deal the top card to one side, "Yes or no was I close?"  they answer 'yes'.   "OK, look into my eyes, I'm going to try and hypnotize you into thinking I got the card you were thinking of..." Snap your fingers and smile, asking,  "Did it work?"  They answer 'no, you say "Are you sure?" And point at the card. They turn it over, end of trick.

That was just my thought on it, I think that would play just as well, basically the same ending (but being very close every time) and retaining the card change. Of course, everyones thought processes are different, you may not like the approach I suggested at all, but I was just giving some input.


Wow! I just had my question answered about who you are! I didn't realize that I've been talking with Paul Hallas. No wonder you're so incredibly knowledgeable!

It's a pleasure meeting you and I'm so glad that you're here.

I just purchased your ebook "O.O.P.S 2". I'm looking forward to reading it!

Rudy


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Paul Hallas

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Reply with quote  #7 
To be honest, I had the Mind Power deck but never actually used it in any paid performances because like yourself I prefer the option of doing other stuff with the deck. I had the Radar deck too, but again, never got around to using it. Do recall Bill Goldman using the latter though, he used to use it a lot in in walk around 'reception' type situations a few decades ago. I mentioned those merely as examples of people thinking of cards and the performer revealing them. Both are very clever.

Another good one for at the table is John Mendoza's "Routined Poker Mental" which was in "The Book of John" years back. I used to use that informally with family/friends/down the pub etc. I never considered it suitable for restaurant work etc. until I read "The Restaurant Worker's Handbook". After that I did try it a few times there, obviously AFTER people have eaten and are on coffee etc. Great routine. 

If you're a Faro shuffle expert (I'm not) you might find Allan Ackerman's "Impromptu Paul Fox" of interest in "Las Vegas Kardma". He duplicates the Paul Fox effect without a stack or gaff.

I'm sure you'll enjoy OOPS 2.

Paul.
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Craig Logan

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Reply with quote  #8 

Rudy, I enjoyed the performance very much!

Paul, it is a pleasure to share cyberspace with you as well. 

Your mention of John Carey reminded me of his effect "Think-a-Think." The effect is different (it is a think a card as well as a "Do as I Do") but there are some principles in the effect well worth looking into. It is in his DVD "Streamlined" but the effect itself was available free from Vanishing Inc. Here's the link to the "Summer Sampler" https://www.vanishingincmagic.com/magic-downloads/card-magic-downloads/summer-free-download/ 

Carey's is the first effect. Hope this sparks some thought as well.


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Paul Hallas

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Reply with quote  #9 
Hi Craig, I watched the performance on Vanishing Inc's site. That may be also on his "Keep Calm & Carey On" DVD, at least he has a trick there with the same title, but not had time to watch that again. If it is, it didn't jump out at me first time I watched it. Watching this clip, I liked it. John's used the 'choice' thing a few times.

I think it's a baffling routine and probably what throws most magicians off is the Do As I Do angle.  Which also adds more time misdirection. If pocket space it at a premium you could probably just as easily do it with one deck.  Spectator shuffles the deck, go through selection procedure, shuffle the deck yourself, hand it spectator so he can spread cards face up for you to make a choice. Take the deck back and comment you are both thinking of cards from a well mixed deck. Remove the card of matching value and color to his and table it face down. Hand him the deck back and have him remove his card and place it face down. Comment that you were duplicating his actions to try and set up a mental synchronization between the two of you. Let's see if there's a connection between our two thought of cards... 

Do As I Do is STILL a good plot, a whole chapter devoted to it in "The Encyclopedia of Card Tricks". Mentalist Al Mann thought the best presentation for it was Al Baker's, which is in the mentioned book (which is still great value!).

John Carey is in a really creative period right now and long may it continue. He's a really nice guy.

P.S. Since checked and it IS the same routine included on the "Keep Calm and Carey On" DVD. Two performances for lay people and very detailed explanation.
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Craig Logan

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Reply with quote  #10 
Yeah, I was a fan of the selection process for that trick. It looks clean, and a little phishing goes a long way. I have considered tinkering with this procedure in other effects.

I may have to check out "Keep Calm and Carey On." Ug, so much to read and view..so little time... and so little coin.

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Paul Hallas

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Reply with quote  #11 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mediocre_magic
, so much to read and view..so little time... and so little coin.


I hear you, lol. You should see my wish list! And I really don't need anything new at my age. Still have a thirst for knowledge though do not need any new material. If we bought everything we wanted we'd all be broke.

Also these days there is so much 'new' stuff that floods out one has to learn to be even more discerning. 30 or 40 years ago there seemed to be only a handful of hardcover books released each year which were pushed as 'special'. That and home produced manuscripts circulating in small quantities. The 'classics' were always recommended of course.  Now everything is 'the best' and if mentalism sells for twice the price. The reality of course is back then the 'name' books were published in the few thousands, these days for most its hundreds, a tiny readership and higher prices to try and recoup the cost quickly, because after a few weeks it stops selling or gets pirated. 

In those days most of my book purchases came from Magic Books By Post in England at conventions, with an opportunity to flip through the books and see if we wanted to part with coin. You'd see the real enthusiasts at the book stands [smile] I usually departed a convention with two or three books. 
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Craig Logan

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Reply with quote  #12 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Packet trick guy

Do As I Do is STILL a good plot, a whole chapter devoted to it in "The Encyclopedia of Card Tricks". Mentalist Al Mann thought the best presentation for it was Al Baker's, which is in the mentioned book (which is still great value!).



"Encyclopedia" has a lot of interesting work in there for sure. Quick question, though, is the Al Baker you referenced "A Card and A Number?" It's the only two deck Al Baker effect I could come across, but it isn't in the "Do As I Do" chapter.

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Paul Hallas

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Reply with quote  #13 
No. I don't have a copy to hand, and it may not be credited, but I think it was called "Twin Souls" or something similar.  Pretty sure it is in the Do As I do chapter.

I'm given to understand a lot of the material in the early versions was not credited (by Glen Gravatt)and that this was something Jean Hugard tried to rectify. I'm sure others could give more information on that.
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Paul Hallas

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Reply with quote  #14 
Going back to my thoughts on a different approach to the initial effect in this thread, having had more time to think about it and having played with the suggestion I offered, I'm now going to be doing it and using that ending but constructed around the simple use of a key card [smile].
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Rudy Tinoco

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Reply with quote  #15 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Packet trick guy
Going back to my thoughts on a different approach to the initial effect in this thread, having had more time to think about it and having played with the suggestion I offered, I'm now going to be doing it and using that ending but constructed around the simple use of a key card [smile].


Any chance you'd be willing to share a few more details about this in the Session Room?

Rudy


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Paul Hallas

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Reply with quote  #16 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rudy Tinoco

Quote:
Originally Posted by Packet trick guy
Going back to my thoughts on a different approach to the initial effect in this thread, having had more time to think about it and having played with the suggestion I offered, I'm now going to be doing it and using that ending but constructed around the simple use of a key card [smile].


Any chance you'd be willing to share a few more details about this in the Session Room?

Rudy



When I get around to typing it up I will do, but I want to actually perform it more first to make sure it's 'road tested' [smile]
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Rudy Tinoco

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Reply with quote  #17 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mediocre_magic

Rudy, I enjoyed the performance very much!


Thanks mediocre-magic!

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Rudy Tinoco

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Reply with quote  #18 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Packet trick guy
To be honest, I had the Mind Power deck but never actually used it in any paid performances because like yourself I prefer the option of doing other stuff with the deck. I had the Radar deck too, but again, never got around to using it. Do recall Bill Goldman using the latter though, he used to use it a lot in in walk around 'reception' type situations a few decades ago. I mentioned those merely as examples of people thinking of cards and the performer revealing them. Both are very clever.

Another good one for at the table is John Mendoza's "Routined Poker Mental" which was in "The Book of John" years back. I used to use that informally with family/friends/down the pub etc. I never considered it suitable for restaurant work etc. until I read "The Restaurant Worker's Handbook". After that I did try it a few times there, obviously AFTER people have eaten and are on coffee etc. Great routine. 

If you're a Faro shuffle expert (I'm not) you might find Allan Ackerman's "Impromptu Paul Fox" of interest in "Las Vegas Kardma". He duplicates the Paul Fox effect without a stack or gaff.

I'm sure you'll enjoy OOPS 2.

Paul.


Paul, I finally got a chance to read and work through, "Out of Sight, In Your Mind" and I like it. I'm looking forward to reading the rest of your book!

Rudy

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Paul Hallas

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Reply with quote  #19 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul Hallas
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rudy Tinoco

Quote:
Originally Posted by Packet trick guy
Going back to my thoughts on a different approach to the initial effect in this thread, having had more time to think about it and having played with the suggestion I offered, I'm now going to be doing it and using that ending but constructed around the simple use of a key card [smile].


Any chance you'd be willing to share a few more details about this in the Session Room?

Rudy



When I get around to typing it up I will do, but I want to actually perform it more first to make sure it's 'road tested' [smile]


Video clip of the idea attached, needs honing but the basic idea is there. Retains the idea of the card being close EVERY time. Not intended as a magician fooler, so I'm sure there is no need for an explanation.

 

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eusbanger

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Reply with quote  #20 
Thanks for sharing it paul! Liked the idea!
But if you don't mind, an advice from a amateur (and of course not with your handling nor the knowedge), when you say that you are going to tune with their mind you never even look at him, a little fault for me.
I'm going to try de idea
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Paul Hallas

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Reply with quote  #21 
Quote:
Originally Posted by eusbanger
Thanks for sharing it paul! Liked the idea! But if you don't mind, an advice from a amateur (and of course not with your handling nor the knowedge), when you say that you are going to tune with their mind you never even look at him, a little fault for me. I'm going to try de idea


An interesting observation. But why do you think you have to look into someone's eyes to tune into someone's mind? [smile] I'd been sat next to him and talking to him throughout an entire meal [smile] Besides. being a mindreader,  I can tell you with some authority that I am sat close enough to the subject for entanglement of the magnetic fields from our brains to take place. [smile]

Seriously, since I am going to ask the person to look into my eyes at the end for the cod hypnotic bit, then the looking into the eyes at the beginning just drags it out. Now in performing for a complete stranger some form of  ''procedure' might make more sense. Since this person has seen me do lots of card tricks (and one immediately before this) I doubt he'd believe I could really read his mind anyway. It's another card trick. [biggrin]

I'm sure I'll hone it as I do it more (it was a first performance) but feel free to present it anyway you like. Hope it plays well for you.





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eusbanger

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Reply with quote  #22 
Sure, just seems more "logical" or at least we saw more films where you need to at least look or touch or something to that person, or it just feels better for me.
That was just an observation, in case you didnt think about it, but i can see that you did [smile]
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Paul Hallas

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Reply with quote  #23 
Quote:
Originally Posted by eusbanger
Sure, just seems more "logical" or at least we saw more films where you need to at least look or touch or something to that person, or it just feels better for me. That was just an observation, in case you didnt think about it, but i can see that you did [smile]


I often do it in my mentalism act.  Most have heard the expression the eyes are the windows to the soul, etc. it's a presentational thing. If you were mind reading back to back with someone or at a distance looking in someone's eyes would be irrelevant, Looking into someone's eyes though, does give opportunities for bits of business. :0
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