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Socrates

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Reply with quote  #1 
Anyone interested in learning more about memory should check out the following:

https://www.magneticmemorymethod.com/the-memory-code/

You'll discover a fascinating audio interview with Lynne Kelly the author of 'The Memory Code'
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Mind Phantom

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Reply with quote  #2 
Great topic and a big welcome back !

Two nights ago I had a dream that I was performing a graphology Q&A, I've only done this twice for a real audience and both times I fell on my face because I couldn't remember the one-ahead question that someone wrote.

Now, if I could only find that super-thin Piatt wallet, find my notes on the routine & expand my memory I'll be in business.

As you know I don't think this is a coincidence, but something of a Higher-Order which was talked about by Jung i.e my dream & your post on memory.

But, whatever. Welcome back!

Best,
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Harry Lorayne

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Okay; I have a feeling that you guys don't really know with whom you're dealing!  So, here's one of literally thousands of letters/email I'll post whenever I feel it'd be helpful and to sorta' let you know why Time Magazine calls me THE YODA OF MEMORY TRAINING - and - THE WORLD'S FOREMOST MEMORY TRAINING SPECIALIST. Since my main goal has always been to help people - in my two areas of expertise, magic and memory - it's important for you to know with whom you're dealing. Be careful of some of the rip-offs that come up, as they have been since my first book in 1956. You might just find the following interesting and helpful.

"Harry,
In 1975, while working in the US Navy as a Reactor Operator, Electronics Tech, I read your book.  I first used the system to memorize the Peg system words, then used that to memorize the periodic chart of elements.  For my job, I memorized all emergency procedures, both immediate actions and follow-up actions, for the Reactor Operator. 

During my oral boards, I blew the board members away by repeating word for word perfectly and very fast all of the emergency actions, all of the nuclear and submarine systems components, all of the nuclear reactions we needed to know, etc., as they asked questions. 

 I went on to work in commercial nuclear power for a total of 35 years, using your system to memorize components functions, system components, and nuclear reactor emergency actions. During that time I went back to college and finished a degree in Computer
Sciences, Professional Management, Electrical Engineering, Nuclear Reactor Design Engineering, and an MBA.  Due to my high grades, which were due to your amazing systems, my education, based on the grade compensation plan, was practically free.  

I now, at age 60, work in the oil field as an investigator, where I investigate any high potential or significant (which relates to millions of dollars and/or injuries or worse) and your system has helped me to pick up all the jargon from each area of the
business, learn all the equipment, and the regulator and business procedures and standards so that I can quickly recall all the details of each investigation as I stand and deliver to management what occurred and can recommend how to correct problems that contributed to the causes of the incident.

 All this time, I have been promoting people working with me to purchase your books and utilize at least some of the techniques that you made so simple. Most had careers that were so-so before, and then they took off quickly as it became apparent to those around them that they had some heretofore unrecognized talents to recall information when others needed it.

 In summary, I am truly and eternally grateful for the system that you provided so many useable details for its use, and it has made my life much easier.     I taught my two children the system when each was 7 yrs old, and they could also recite the peg system words (all 100).  It also helped them to perform exceedingly well in school and college. 

Again, thank you very much for your works on memory. I have learned a hugh amount of information on genetics, diseases and medicine, emergency care, physics, etc., by using your memory techniques.

 Barry Baumgardner "

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Reply with quote  #4 
Listen Harry, nobody is doubting you're a superb salesman and your memory training courses and books have been extremely successful over the years - and relax, we know who we are dealing with.

Have you taken the time to listen to the audio interview yet?
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Harry Lorayne

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      I started to try to listen to it, listened to the long introduction and then just a bit of the lady. And boredom overtook me. I would have liked to listen to the entire thing - great pieces of information, like the guy talking about the Francis Yates book (The Art of Memory) which I wrote about many decades ago.

I would have been interested to hear if my name was mentioned. Call it ego, call it whatever you like, but as someone once wrote to the NY Times --- "Talking about memory training without mentioning Harry Lorayne is like talking about the theory of relativity without mentioning Albert Einstein."

      And if I understand their "pitch" there - he/she says that the old ideas are the best. What a TERRIBLE piece of advice that is. And if you want some information about the history of memory training go to memoryimprovement.org -  I "touch" on it there. And if you go to my first book on the subject (How To Develop A Super-Power Memory) I discuss that a bit therein.  

  Oh, and I know whom I'm dealing with!!  And if I could "relax" I'd be six feet tall!!
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Harry Lorayne

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     Oh, and you refer to me as a "superb salesman" - well, two thoughts came to mind as I read that - first, my publishers did most of the "superb salesmanship" - and the teachings in my books did that - people all over the world telling other people all over the world about my books did that - and testimoniasl like the above did that - but I do agree that I'm pretty good at it. Certainly good at it if demonstrating it is "salesmanship."

    I mean what could be more of "superb selling" then memorizing the names and faces of 400 or more people in the studio audience of a TV show?  Or memorizing a 25-digit number forward and backward that audience members  call out, or memorizing a complete issue of a current magazine --- and so on and on. Can the person YOU are "superb selling," or certainly trying to - do those things?!?

    
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Reply with quote  #7 
It a shame you got bored, there's lots of great information there for mentalists/magicians who are interested in expanding their understanding of memory and its uses throughout time. Great presentational points can be gleaned from this talk too.

Personally I found it most informative.
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Harry Lorayne

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Reply with quote  #8 
   Superb salesmanship!!
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Socrates

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Reply with quote  #9 
There isn't anything to sell... the talk is free.

All these posts have got me curious Harry. I'm wondering how you learned the memory techniques which you currently use?
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Harry Lorayne

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Reply with quote  #10 
      Good Lord!  The little bit I could "take" before falling asleep is that they're "selling" the Memory Palace idea - LOCI - 3000 years old. I've written about it, and I know probably more about it than they do. This is terrible!!!  The Loci system was great those thousands of years ago - NOT NOW.  It's like making the top surgeons of today study and use the techniques of thousands of years ago. You may want to go to that surgeon - not me. Nor should anyone else. This is terrible. The point of civilization is to go forward, not backward.
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Reply with quote  #11 
How did you learn the methods you use?

What is it about the loci system that is not so good?

How come it was great thousands of years ago but not now?

Share your knowledge please...

I have no wish to argue, just a desire to learn

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Harry Lorayne

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Reply with quote  #12 
   Socrates:  I wrote all about that in my memoir (BEFORE I FORGET). Wanted to get passing grades on tests so that my father wouldn't hit me. Went to the library (I was about 11 years old) - found books dating back to the 17th/18th century - some in my personal libgrary now. Also books talking about Loci. Then read more current people - Bruno Furst, David Roth (not our coin guy). Started to devise/change methods just to apply to my specific problem - remembering the answers to Mrs. Goldfisher's test questions. That's what started it.

     Then I also wrote that I thought that magic would be my career - until I did a card memory thing for actor Victor Jory. Etc.
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Socrates

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Reply with quote  #13 
Did you pass the test?

It's great to hear how you got started with memory Harry... just goes to show you can achieve anything you wish if you take action and commit to the goal.
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Harry Lorayne

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Reply with quote  #14 
   If you mean did my father stop "punching" me (as I worded it when Johnny Carson asked me that question on The Tonight Show) - yes. I started to get 100s on the daily tests. I've written about all this, Socrates. You gotta' start reading the good stuff.
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Reply with quote  #15 
By the way Harry, what do you think is wrong with the loci method?

It has become very popular these days, and many of the current memory champions utilize this method.
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Harry Lorayne

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Reply with quote  #16 
     One of the things I wrote about decades ago was how people who used the Loci idea centuries ago started to walk around their towns and cities looking for "places." Please tell me how someone would remember a 25-digit number forward and backward using the loci system. And how they'd use it to remember 400 or more names and faces in an audience. Please. "Memory champions" utilizing it tells us a lot about those "champions."
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Reply with quote  #17 
The loci system relates specifically to place and location... it predates towns and cities.

The questions which strike me as more interesting are:

When, and why did it become important to remember long chains of numbers backwards and forwards?

How often does one really need to memorize 400 names and faces in an extremely short period of time?
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magicfish

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Reply with quote  #18 
Many years ago my friend and I decided to learn Harry Lorayne's memory techniques. We each read The Memory Book.
I began memorizing things just for fun because I had no other use for it at the time. I memorized every nation on earth and its capital city. I memorized every U.S. President's name and number.
I memorized lists of random objects called out by friends at parties. I would convert incredibly long numbers to pronouncable sentences which I could convert back to numbers any time- and forever. In fact I bumped into an acquaintance on a city street I hadn't seen in 13 years- I immediately told him his phone number. Talk about a JawDropper. All great fun.
My friend on the other hand, used the sytem for a different purpose- he taught himself Japanese.
Using Harry's method from the book, he began conversing with a Japanese lady who also happened to be practicing her english. They have been married almost 20 years now.
Harry Lorayne's The Memory Book changed our lives. Would I have bothered to learn memory from another source? I highly doubt it. It was Harry's superb writing ability that made me WANT to keep turning those pages, and practicing what I had learned. And the greatest part of it all is that I have the honour and the privilege of thanking the author here, personally.
Thankyou Harry.

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Reply with quote  #19 
These are amazing feats indeed, there is no doubt about that. We are so fortunate to have Harry here, being able to tap his mind is a superb gift for all of us.
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Harry Lorayne

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Reply with quote  #20 
   Oh, c'mon!   Really? It's not important to remember names/faces, numbers?  Of course I demonstrate to extremes - the OBVIOUS point - is THAT I TEACH YOU TO REMEMBER NAMES/FACE/NUMBERS - ANYTHING - for you to use in your schoolwork, business, IN YOUR LIFE. Please, enough silliness.
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Rudy Tinoco

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Reply with quote  #21 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Socrates
The loci system relates to place and location and it predates towns and cities.

The questions which strike me as more interesting are:

When, and why did it become important to remember long chains of numbers backwards and forwards?

How often does one really need to memorize 400 names and faces in an extremely short period of time?



I purchased a book from Memory Arts that was specifically created for the Mnemonica stack.
I had already memorized it using Henry’s techniques, but was just curious to see their methodology.

It uses a system of 26 locations and images that serve to represent certain cards. They give you 26 locations and each location represents two different cards.

I have no doubt that their system works, but I believe that Harry’s method is easier. Maybe it’s because the images provided were difficult to create a memorable picture of (quick, picture a shrew).

Most of us would never want or need to memorize 400 names, but we know that Harry has entertained thousands of audiences around the world by doing so :)

Rudy

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Harry Lorayne

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Reply with quote  #22 
    Oh, and thanks for that all-so-important information - I really had no idea that the loci system predates whatever. Very important; thanks. That really makes the 3000-year-old idea much more important. I guess it goes back far enough to times when people had to use swamps, trees, dinosaurs, etc., for "places."
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Blathermist

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Reply with quote  #23 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Harry Lorayne
    Oh, and thanks for that all-so-important information - I really had no idea that the loci system predates whatever. Very important; thanks. That really makes the 3000-year-old idea much more important. I guess it goes back far enough to times when people had to use swamps, trees, dinosaurs, etc., for "places."


I don't think I'd ever heard of the Loci system before reading this thread, but then memory systems are not a major study area of mine.

However, the information is genuinely interesting. It’s history. If we’re going to dismiss it because of its age, what price the rest of history? Why should we be remotely interested in Erdnase, or Devant, or this move or that trick or who created what?

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Harry Lorayne

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Reply with quote  #24 
  Who ever said to "dismiss it"?  If you've read this entire thread you must have seen my post re: going to my site memoryimprovement.org to learn more about the history of memory training - where, of course, I mention the loci method - which I also spoke about in my very first book on the subject - in 1956!  So, I've never "dismissed it" -  it's just completely, entirely, out of date.
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Reply with quote  #25 
The phonetic peg system is used for numbers... but I am curious to know when it came about - does anyone know?

It is extremely useful for remembering numbers but was there something before this?

Hence my question on when did it become important to remember long chains of numbers.
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Harry Lorayne

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Reply with quote  #26 
    I missed some of the posts above. magicfish: You're welcome, and glad you mentioned all the things you can do with your memory.
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jim ferguson

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Reply with quote  #27 
I think that is the first time in my nine years on magic forums I've ever had a post deleted. Was there something wrong with my question ?
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Harry Lorayne

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Reply with quote  #28 
   Socrates: Actually it's the Phonetic Alphabet that's basically used to remember numbers. And yes; that knowledge is part of the Peg System.
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Socrates

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Reply with quote  #29 
Thanks for the correction Harry.

Was there a memory system for numbers prior to this?
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Harry Lorayne

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Reply with quote  #30 
    Not that I'm aware of, Socrates. All my books on the subject, some dating back to the 17th century, are in cartons, buried under other cartons in my son's basement, so I can't really check it out. But again, not that I'm aware of. I did mention an idea in a couple of my books, which is an old idea, but I don't know HOW old. It's the idea of remembering items that sound like the numbers so that you can visualize them. Like:  one-run, two-shoe, three-tree, four-door...up to 10-hen.

    That's as far as it ever went (that I know of) - in one of my books I took it to 15.

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Harry Lorayne

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Reply with quote  #31 
    What I mention above is a "cute" idea - nowhere near as good, as efficient, as the Phonetic Alphabet, that I teach in most of my books. Those rhyming words can help you remember up to 10 (or 15) items by number position; that's it.  I teach 100 Peg Words in most of my books - and in the MEMORY POWER COURSE I bring it to 1000. 

Now, please don't ask me why anyone would want to remember the numerical positions of 1000 items - because I don't know. But people have asked me to do so and people have thanked me profusely for doing so. I do teach things that I never use myself - for example, in my very first (or second) book on memory training I taught how to remember the Morse Code in minutes - I never needed it, but many other people did.  An interesting "piece" about that and an army experience of mine with the idea is in my memoir, Before I Forget.
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Rudy Tinoco

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Reply with quote  #32 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jim ferguson
I think that is the first time in my nine years on magic forums I've ever had a post deleted. Was there something wrong with my question ?


Hi Jim, I may have deleted your post by mistake. I intended to delete one from DanC. I apologize for the error!

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Blathermist

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Reply with quote  #33 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Harry Lorayne
  Who ever said to "dismiss it"?  If you've read this entire thread you must have seen my post re: going to my site memoryimprovement.org to learn more about the history of memory training - where, of course, I mention the loci method - which I also spoke about in my very first book on the subject - in 1956!  So, I've never "dismissed it" -  it's just completely, entirely, out of date.

I don’t think anybody said we should dismiss it. Certainly I didn’t.

However, I did interpret your tone as dismissive, which is why, partly in response, I said "If we’re going to dismiss it because of its age, what price the rest of history?" Now I see I was mistaken, you weren’t being dismissive. A simple breakdown in communication. That’s all.

I have read the entire thread, but in the absence of a link to the site, I didn’t immediately read your potted history of memory training. Actually, I should say re-read, because when I did land on the site, I realised I’d been there before some while ago and also realised that I had come across Loci in this context. So much for my memory.

I am of course well familiar with the word "Loci" and its meaning. In particular, our old friend, genius loci: The Spirit Of Place.

It’s the Spirit Of Place that watches over the Magicians Forum and allows sensible adult discussion such as this. 

 The site in question is here:

http://www.memoryimprovement.org 

 

Incidentally, and apropos of nothing in particular, when I clicked on the Harry Lorayne Website link via Google:

https://harryloraynemagic.com/

this message appeared:

This site is not secure 

This might mean that someone’s trying to fool you or steal any info you send to the server. You should close this site immediately.

This is on my laptop. The wording is slightly different on my desktop computer.
I’m using McAfee Virus protection.

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Harry Lorayne

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Reply with quote  #34 
    When I click on the link you give for my memoryimprovement.org site, Blathermist, nothing happens - although when I go to it from my computer it comes up fine and as usual. And, when I click on the link you give for harryloraynemagic.com - that comes up fine and as usual. I'll never understand computers!
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pnielan

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Reply with quote  #35 
Both sites work for me without warnings and open immediately.

Possible that you went to memoryimprovement.com instead of memoryimprovement.org.

Easy enough to do. I did it too.




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Blathermist

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Reply with quote  #36 
Quote:
Originally Posted by pnielan
Both sites work for me without warnings and open immediately.

Possible that you went to memoryimprovement.com instead of memoryimprovement.org.

Easy enough to do. I did it too.



Nope, no mistake. The second link I’ve posted here still takes me to a warning notice.

I mentioned McAfee, because as Rudy may recall, some little while ago, McAfee was throwing up a warning message to some users regarding the Magicians Forum itself. I was one of them.

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Blathermist

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Reply with quote  #37 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Harry Lorayne
    When I click on the link you give for my memoryimprovement.org site, Blathermist, nothing happens - although when I go to it from my computer it comes up fine and as usual. And, when I click on the link you give for harryloraynemagic.com - that comes up fine and as usual.
I'll never understand computers!


Me neither. I was first exposed to computers in the mid 70s and they’ve been addling my brain ever since. I recall vividly two things the guy who ran the introductory course said.

"Computers are the Future".

And

"We all need to get ready for the paperless office."

Well he was nearly right with the first, but the second…..stroll on.

Anyway, I remain baffled.

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Rudy Tinoco

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Reply with quote  #38 
Blathermist is correct. I got this message when I clicked on Harry’s website.

Attached Images
Click image for larger version - Name: B59EF75D-7FAB-44A2-9D5B-498BB22380A1.png, Views: 4, Size: 909.65 KB 

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François Lagrange

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Reply with quote  #39 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blathermist

Incidentally, and apropos of nothing in particular, when I clicked on the Harry Lorayne Website link via Google:

https://harryloraynemagic.com/

this message appeared:

This site is not secure 

This might mean that someone’s trying to fool you or steal any info you send to the server. You should close this site immediately.

This is on my laptop. The wording is slightly different on my desktop computer.
I’m using McAfee Virus protection.

Guys, there’s nothing sinister here. Harry’s site is not prefixed with https (which means Hypertext Transfer Protocol Secure) but with http. Therefore you should access the site by typing http://harryloraynemagic.com. Trying to access Harry's site with the https prefix will generate the error message shown above.

The section of the site that deals with payment is indeed secure (https) and therefore there’s nothing to fear.

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Rudy Tinoco

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Reply with quote  #40 
Thanks for clearing that up, Francois. I appreciate it!
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Socrates

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Reply with quote  #41 
Retaining digits intrigues me, especially contemplating the subject prior to the phoentic alphabet system mentioned earlier.

It seems different cultures have different approaches. According to research, speaking English puts us at a disadvantage memorizing numbers when compared to the Chinese - this is due to Chinese words for numbers being shorter than English equivalents.

In some ways reciting number chains is a little like remembering how to spell words. If you a familiar with a word then it is a piece of cake to spell.

Over the years I have met people who work with numbers on daily basis, such as accountants, telephone operators etc. and have found they have no difficulty retaining numbers due to their familiarity with them.

To my mind memory systems are like training-wheels on a child's bike; they help build confidence in your ability to remember information. They are probably more important now then ever due to our outsourcing of memory to electronic devices.

Now being able to retain information and repeat it appears like magic to the average person, therefore it's a great skill for all mentalists and magicians to learn and utilize.


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magicfish

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Reply with quote  #42 
It is a great skill to have.
With Harry's instruction, speaking English does not put you at a disadvantage. The numbers have sounds just like our alphabet, but instead of 26, there are only 9.
With nine sounds, you can remember any multi digit number, and retain it for a day, a week, or 80 years. If you can learn nine sounds (kindergarten children learn 26) you can remember anything.
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Socrates

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Reply with quote  #43 
Yes I fully understand the system Magicfish.

My line of inquiry is referencing what happened prior to the phoentic alphabet being used to create visual representations for the numbers:

Was there another system in place, or was it less important to retain numbers?

The system Harry teaches work, I can vouch for that as I've used them and variations for many years. As I say I'm curious to know what happened prior to the phoentic alphabet system being introduced.

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magicfish

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Reply with quote  #44 
Understood, Socrates. Thanks for the clarification.
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