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Nathan_himself

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Hello, everyone!

I have been involved in hypnosis since I was barely a teen. Hypnosis has served me very well. I have entertained and changed lives. That being said, I believe pseudo hypnosis can be just as strong as the real thing. I still believe that real hypnosis is worth the trouble of learning! Hypnosis gives me the chance to entertain without any deception or any props. 

When I say pseudo hypnosis, I am referring to routines that look like hypnosis but don't use real suggestion. I'll talk about my three favorite products that teach methods that fit this description.  

1. True Mysteries (1 and 2) by Fraser Parker

Fraser uses language in a way most performers will never come close to matching. To say I am a fan is an understatement. I know his methods are controversial, but they work. In True Mysteries, Fraser gives the appearance of real hypnotic control without using real suggestion. I use these techniques all the time with massive success. They will make you look like the real deal. These methods are not for the faint-of-heart but are worth every penny to learn. 

2. Touching On Hypnosis by Luke Jermay (Premise and Premonition DVD Set)

Luke Jermay is my favorite mentalist and has had the greatest influence on the way I construct mentalism. Touching Hypnosis is Luke's way of creating a stage hypnosis show without real hypnosis. If you are a fan of his work, the method will make a lot of sense. I have used this a few times, and it has made me look like I was a world class hypnotist. I highly recommend the whole DVD set but in particular this method.  

3.Hypno effects by Peter Turner ( Vol 11 of his Mentalism Masterclass) 

This is a massive pdf that contains methods from multiple creators. Personally, I have found various methods in this book that could become power house effects. I can't speak highly enough about this book. 

In conclusion, I believe pseudo hypnotic methods are just as powerful as real hypnosis. I still believe real hypnosis is worth all the trouble in the world to learn. That being said, these routines can create moments that are strong and make you look like a hypnosis expert. 




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Mind Phantom

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Is guided visualization like on a cd the same as hypnosis, or is it a form of pseudo hypnosis.

Just curious..

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Nathan_himself

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Logan Five
Is guided visualization like on a cd the same as hypnosis, or is it a form of pseudo hypnosis.

Just curious..

Best,


I think that would depend on your working definition of hypnosis. I would classify guided visualizations in the realm of hypnosis. I think it has more to do with the intention of the cd. In my definition of hypnosis, intention to hypnotize is a big factor. So if the CD's intention is to hypnotize you, I believe it counts as real hypnosis. But if it doesn't mention hypnosis, then I wouldn't personally call it hypnosis.

That being said, when I say "pseudo hypnosis", I'm speaking of it in the sense of performance. 

I hope this clears up your question!

Cheers

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Mind Phantom

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I have experimented with tapes and cd's of self-hypnosis on weight loss, past life regression, chakra meditation. I've had great success with all the tapes and cd's.

I was just unclear on what pseudo hypnosis was i.e that of performance routines that you listed above.

Thanks for clearing that up.

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Geoff Weber

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all hypnosis is psuedo hypnosis.
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Nathan_himself

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Geoff, that is one way of thinking of it. I strongly disagree, but I understand your stance. 
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Blathermist

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Geoff Weber
all hypnosis is psuedo hypnosis.


Yep. Gets my vote.
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Mind Phantom

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Well, whatever it is...it works.
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Tom G

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Thought I read a while ago, that it was Kreskin that didn't put stock in hypnosis? 
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Anthony Vinson

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blathermist


Yep. Gets my vote.


Yep. Mine too.
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Nathan_himself

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Full agreement, Logan.  It works for me, my audience, and my clients!

Many of you may not believe in hypnosis, but I've been paid (very good) money to perform it. but the products I listed above are great places to learn DR! If anyone wants to lean the real work, I'll be more than happy to point you in the right direction!

Also here is a video that explains what hypnosis is:


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Anthony Vinson

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nathan_himself
Full agreement, Logan.  It works for me, my audience, and my clients!


Okay guys, here's the problem. This topic is titled My Thoughts on Pseudo Hypnosis, the prefix pseudo, of course, being from the Greek for "lying" or "false." So in effect you are defending something as scientific that you have already labelled as false. Can you see where some of us might have a problem with your premise?

Yes, there is scientific evidence to support the hypothesis that hypnosis, administered by a trained clinician and preferably under the supervision of a medical professional and sometimes in conjunction with medications or other treatment, can alleviate pain, assist in substance, withdrawal, and aide in Cognitive Behavioral Therapy. There is no body of established scientific evidence that hypnosis administered otherwise has any established efficacy.

Anyone acting in the capacity of a hypnotherapist without proper training or licensing, may be in violation of local law, statutes, or ordinances. They might also be a con artist. I, however, choose to believe that most are are honest and of good intent, just somewhat misguided. Same as those who promote colon cleansing or homeopathic medicine or super foods and vitamin supplements or palm reading. 

Edited to clarify points made in the last paragraph that initially seemed personally directed toward a fellow TFM member. Not my intention; happy to make it right. Peace, and thanks for letting me know.       

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EVILDAN

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I believe in hypnosis and here's why.....

I was stationed in San Diego from 1980-81 when I was in the Navy. There was a club off base called Spankey's that had a hypnotist performing there once a week. My friend wanted to go see it, so we went one day. We weren't of legal age to drink and there was a two drink minimum regardless. We each had two bottles of Coke in front of us. This is just to let you know, there was no alcohol involved.

We also sat at the back wall of the room. I wanted no chance of me getting picked to go on stage. The hypnotist got her volunteers and started the induction. I listened. And then I started hearing his voice coming at me in waves. It was like listening to the radio and turning the volume knob louder and quieter. Louder and quieter. And then the sound in the rest of the room faded away while his voice still came at me in waves. The best way I can describe this is it's similar to the feeling you get when you're really drunk to the point you're getting head spins and you all you hear in your head is a buzz or a hum. That's why I thought it important to mention that we weren't drinking alcohol.

And then, it hit me. I shook my head and came out of what I deemed to be "the hypnotic state." This thing hit me strong and at the back of the room. I'm a believer.

Also, my wife is a hypnotist.
She's never hypnotized me but hypnotized my brother so he stopped smoking.
He was a pack to 3 packs a day depending on how he worked. He wanted to quit but just couldn't stop. She hypnotized him and gave him the suggestion that every time he felt like smoking, he'd rub his fingers together and the urge would go away.

I talked to him a few months after that to see if it worked. He said the first month it worked great. Then he would just have one every now and then just out of sheer boredom at work, while he stepped outside to get some fresh air. (He's a mason and works on major boiler outages.) A year or so later I asked how he was doing. He showed me a pack of Marlboro's a little more than half full. He told me he had that pack for 3 months. To date, he no longer smokes and no longer carries any cigarettes with him.
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Anthony Vinson

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Anecdote ain't evidence, Evil One. I have no doubt that you experienced what you described, but is it not at least possible that there are other explanations besides the proximity of a stage hypnotist? At any rate and regardless of cause, it sounds freaky and puzzling. It'd make anyone curious. 

As to your brother, is it not possible that he had already determined that he needed to quit and that you wife's intervention provided the push he needed at the time? Again, I do not discount your experience, just acting on my nature as a skeptic.

Belief is personal; evidence is universal.
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EVILDAN

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As far as my experience; I was in the mindset that I was going to listen to the hypnotist to see if I'd go under. I've seen hypnotists before and always thought there was "something to it."

We even had one appear at our high school and he gave the suggestion that those that were under wouldn't remember what happened on stage but as the day went on they would slowly recall what took place. One of our close buddies went under. The hypnotist gave him the suggestion that he was jogging. He jogged in place.
He gave him the suggestion that a car was passing. It was full of friends and they were honking their horn and waving at him.
He waved back.
He gave him the suggestion that a car was passing. It was full of friends and they were honking and laughing at him.
He stopped dead in his tracks, took a wide spread stance and gave them the finger with both hands.
Me and my best friend went to him afterwards and asked if he remembered what he did. He couldn't remember. He wasn't trying to BS us either. He couldn't remember. As the day wore on he remembered what happened.

That set the seeds that there could be something to this.

So, back to San Diego. I went in there with the intent of listening to the induction to see if it really works, without having to go through all the machinations on stage. I definitely felt like I was going under. There was no other reason than me listening to the induction.

As for my brother - yes, he wanted to quit. You have to want to do something if hypnotism is going to work. My wife hypnotized a co-worker's dad so that he'd stop smoking. It lasted half a day. The guy had no intention of quitting. He was there to appease his daughter.
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Nathan_himself

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Reply with quote  #16 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anthony Vinson


Okay guys, here's the problem. This topic is titled My Thoughts on Pseudo Hypnosis, the prefix pseudo, of course, being from the Greek for "lying" or "false." So in effect you are defending something as scientific that you have already labelled as false. Can you see where some of us might have a problem with your premise?




I think that you haven't read my initial post. I even state in my post "When I say pseudo hypnosis, I am referring to routines that look like hypnosis but don't use real suggestion." I was giving my opinion on products that teach methods to create the illusion of hypnosis. My post was not to debate the authenticity of real hypnosis. I was attempting to add value by pointing to several resources to learn DR. I labeled effects that use DR as pseudo hypnosis. 



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Anthony Vinson

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nathan_himself


I think that you haven't read my initial post. I even state in my post "When I say pseudo hypnosis, I am referring to routines that look like hypnosis but don't use real suggestion." I was giving my opinion on products that teach methods to create the illusion of hypnosis. My post was not to debate the authenticity of real hypnosis. I was attempting to add value by pointing to several resources to learn DR. I labeled effects that use DR as pseudo hypnosis.


Nope, I did read your initial post. However, in post number 6 you disagreed that "All hypnosis is pseudo hypnosis." In doing so you supported, whether by intention or not, the premise that there is no difference between the two. You then posted a video alleging to explain the science behind hypnosis. That led to my comment regarding the generally accepted scientific status of hypnosis. That's it, that's all.
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Blathermist

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Reply with quote  #18 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nathan_himself

My post was not to debate the authenticity of real hypnosis. I was attempting to add value by pointing to several resources to learn DR. I labeled effects that use DR as pseudo hypnosis. 


But that's what happens when statements are made, questions asked, or conversational comments are offered.

Note: My emphasis to highlight my own conversational comment.
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Geoff Weber

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Reply with quote  #19 
Quote:
Originally Posted by EVILDAN
You have to want to do something if hypnotism is going to work.


If you are doing something that you already wanted to do, why is credit being given to an outside force?

Maybe its easier to believe you are surrendering control of your actions, so that way you don't have to accept any accountability. "I wasn't able to quit smoking. I guess the hypnosis didn't take."

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nathan_himself
I've been paid (very good) money to perform it.


Saying there is a difference between hypnosis and pseudo hypnosis is like saying there is a difference between fortune telling and REAL fortune telling. Also, the ability to make money at it is not evidence of its legitimacy.
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EVILDAN

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Reply with quote  #20 
Geoff Weber wrote:

If you are doing something that you already wanted to do, why is credit being given to an outside force?

Maybe its easier to believe you are surrendering control of your actions, so that way you don't have to accept any accountability. "I wasn't able to quit smoking. I guess the hypnosis didn't take."


Motivation?

Let's say you go to the gym and try to bench press 100 pounds 10 times.
Maybe you can only do it 7 or 8 times on your own.
But somehow you can manage to pump out 10, 11 or maybe even 12 if you have a trainer screaming at you, "Come on, one more! Great, now one more!"

That trainer is an outside force.

I was in the Navy and I was able to do more than I thought I could and so were a lot of other guys when you have a Company Commander barking at you.

If you don't believe in hypnotism, that's fine with me. I just find your examples to shoot the possibility down faulty.
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Geoff Weber

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Reply with quote  #21 
Quote:
Originally Posted by EVILDAN


Motivation?

Let's say you go to the gym and try to bench press 100 pounds 10 times.
Maybe you can only do it 7 or 8 times on your own.
But somehow you can manage to pump out 10, 11 or maybe even 12 if you have a trainer screaming at you, "Come on, one more! Great, now one more!"

That trainer is an outside force.


Trainers aren't claiming credit for any power beyond encouraging you. If hypnotists said "hypnotism is me talking in a soothing voice and motivating you to do stuff you already want to do" we wouldn't be having this debate right now.
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EVILDAN

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Reply with quote  #22 
Have you ever been hypnotized or ever tried to undergo a hypnotic induction?
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Geoff Weber

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Reply with quote  #23 
to get back to the original topic of magic effects which you can effectively claim to be demonstrations of hypnosis, I would also add the Electric Chairs by Ricki Dunn (made famous by Paul Daniels)

Also, I have used a hypnosis premise with body stunt routines
such as the rising arms (pressing them outward until the muscles tire)
or the 4 person human table
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Nathan_himself

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Reply with quote  #24 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Geoff Weber
to get back to the original topic of magic effects which you can effectively claim to be demonstrations of hypnosis, I would also add the Electric Chairs by Ricki Dunn (made famous by Paul Daniels)


This is one of my favorite effects and inspired many of the effects I originally listed.

I'd also like to mention Kenton Kneppers fantastic contributions to the art, specifically creating several methods that make DR work so well

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Geoff Weber

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Quote:
Originally Posted by EVILDAN
Have you ever been hypnotized or ever tried to undergo a hypnotic induction?


I was brought up on stage during a hypnosis show at a comedy club. I played along because I thought it would be fun. But at no point was I "hypnotized", unless you define hypnotized as "willing to play along".
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EVILDAN

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Reply with quote  #26 
I don't.
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Waterman

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I am getting sleepy...
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Mind Phantom

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Reply with quote  #28 
Maybe the guided visualization acts like a " sugar pill " or a " placebo " in the mind of the participant who is WANTING, as in my case..to lose weight, which I did. The human mind is very powerful and there could very well be a deeper part of the mind where such visualization and suggestions can be effected.

If you don't believe it works, chances are it won't work for you.

Best,
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