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MagicCat

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Reply with quote  #1 
This is not going to be the usual small hand palming post. I know that anyone can palm with practice, and that small hands are no excuse. [smile] That said, I do have extremely small hands and I cannot physically fit a card in my palm without a piece sticking out. I've been practicing a lot in the mirror, and I'm getting better.
What I think would really help me is to see a video or even some pictures of someone with smaller hands palming a card. Does any one have any suggestions for that? I don't have any idea if I'm even holding the card right. For instance in the royal road it says to have your pinkie on the corner, my pinkie can't reach.
Also, I noticed that a lot of people recommend the gamblers cop for small hands. Can you modify any trick to use it? I don't really want to limit myself.

Thanks for your help!
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Chi Han

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Reply with quote  #2 
I can't really help you as my fingers are quite large and I did not have the same problems as you while learning to palm.  That said Steven Youell discussed alternative palming grips in another thread in the Session Room that hopefully he will be willing to share here.  Suffice to say he points out that it is a common problem, and argues that hand size DOES matter when it comes to palming.

You could also try doing magic with bridge cards.  They're slightly less wide than poker sized cards, and might help.
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mark lewis

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Reply with quote  #3 
I ONLY perform with bridge cards. They are (or at least were) the only cards you could commonly get in the UK. And they are better for certain flourishes too.
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danielvanm

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Reply with quote  #4 
Hi Magic Cat!

I thought Dani Daortiz had small hands as well.. Check him out palming cards [smile]

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danielvanm

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Reply with quote  #5 
Also.. Use misdirection when palming.. Nobody looks at my hands when palming a card.. I always ask a question to make sure they look at me instead of my hands.. [smile]
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EVILDAN

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Reply with quote  #6 
Growing up in the 70's, all the packet tricks were bridge sized cards.
In the US the main cards were Aviator bridge or Fox Lake bridge. All the gaffs were printed on this stock.
If you look at the books out around that time, a lot of the cards in the pictures are bridge sized.

I think the shift to poker size happened around the very late 70's and 80's.
From what I remember, that's when magicians started shifting to Tally-Ho's and Bikes.
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Nicolás Pierri

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Reply with quote  #7 

the answer for this is practice and try to do normal day stuff with a card palmed walking on the streets and so on you will be amzed of the small number of people who will actualy see it [smile]

 

i have smal hands i can barely hide a card in my fingers with my hand flat alway i have  some partss of it sticking out but i LOVE to palm and if someone here saw me palming know that im not bad on it [smile]

 

i would recomend you to practice coin magic if you are not ito it yet since one of the FUNDAMENTALS on coin maig is ANGLES and angles very similar to the angles you use when palming card. 

 

here is a lil video to encourage you to practice palming i have small hands but i can palm [smile] (nobody ever cathed my palm on that trick not even magicians [smile]  [wink]

 

that was a LIVE tv show [biggrin] 

 

 

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Blathermist

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Reply with quote  #8 
It doesn't matter where the card fits, as long as it's hidden. Sadly with small hands that's not going to happen, but as others have pointed out, it's no reason for despair.

Exact finger/card positions are at best a guide. Most people I know palm in more or less the same manner, but there's always something personal and "peculiar" to their hand and grip.

Keep at it. Once you feel physically comfortable with the card in your hand, the psychological aspect becomes less of a burden. Doing the move smoothly allows you to relax and forget about whether it an be seen. Keep the action--of the move and the trick--flowing.
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mark lewis

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Reply with quote  #9 
OK. I think it might be helpful if you could give us the exact measurements of your hands. Length and width. Maybe I am wrong but I bet the card fits somehow. I am a palmist and have looked at thousands upon thousands of hands. I have never seen a single one that is smaller than a playing card.
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Steven Youell

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Reply with quote  #10 
MagicCat:

I took a look and realized that you were just starting out in Card Magic.

That's important information and in light of that, I have a suggestion:

Forget all of the advice in this thread. And for the time being, stop trying to learn how to palm cards.

First thing is first: Have you mastered An overhand shuffle control yet? Can you hold a break?
There are easily over a dozen sleights that you should learn before trying to palm cards.

90% of magicians couldn't palm a stamp with the sticky side in.

Set the right priorities first and if you stick to them, you'll advance far more quickly than anyone else starting out.

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Rudy Tinoco

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Reply with quote  #11 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nicolás Pierri

the answer for this is practice and try to do normal day stuff with a card palmed walking on the streets and so on you will be amzed of the small number of people who will actualy see it [smile]

i have smal hands i can barely hide a card in my fingers with my hand flat alway i have  some partss of it sticking out but i LOVE to palm and if someone here saw me palming know that im not bad on it [smile]

i would recomend you to practice coin magic if you are not ito it yet since one of the FUNDAMENTALS on coin maig is ANGLES and angles very similar to the angles you use when palming card. 

here is a lil video to encourage you to practice palming i have small hands but i can palm [smile] (nobody ever cathed my palm on that trick not even magicians [smile]  [wink]

That was a LIVE tv show [biggrin] 



Excellent Nicolas!!

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MagicCat

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Reply with quote  #12 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steven Youell
MagicCat:

I took a look and realized that you were just starting out in Card Magic.

That's important information and in light of that, I have a suggestion:

Forget all of the advice in this thread. And for the time being, stop trying to learn how to palm cards.

First thing is first: Have you mastered An overhand shuffle control yet? Can you hold a break?
There are easily over a dozen sleights that you should learn before trying to palm cards.

90% of magicians couldn't palm a stamp with the sticky side in.

Set the right priorities first and if you stick to them, you'll advance far more quickly than anyone else starting out.


I'm working through the royal road to card magic. I can control a card with the overhand shuffle, I can also riffle shuffle keeping a card at the top or bottom, I can do a glide really well (its my favorite right now. I skipped the chapter on flourishes. Palming was the next chapter. Yesterday, I skipped ahead to more overhand shuffles and found a better overhand shuffle control. I also know the basics of using a key card. That about covers it.
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mark lewis

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Reply with quote  #13 
Her age may be important too. When I was around 13 years old I couldn't palm a card either because my hands were too small. However, as I got older my hands got bigger! I find palming cards to be a very useful aid in my toolbox. You can certainly manage without it but if you have it you can use it for life and it can come in handy with all sorts of wonderful card tricks.
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mark lewis

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Reply with quote  #14 

Quote:
Originally Posted by MagicCat
I'm working through the royal road to card magic. I can control a card with the overhand shuffle, I can also riffle shuffle keeping a card at the top or bottom, I can do a glide really well (its my favorite right now. I skipped the chapter on flourishes. Palming was the next chapter. Yesterday, I skipped ahead to more overhand shuffles and found a better overhand shuffle control. I also know the basics of using a key card. That about covers it.

 

Be careful with skipping ahead. Don't make a habit of it. Slow but sure is better than racing ahead with this book. They have structured a very good study plan for a reason.

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Steven Youell

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Reply with quote  #15 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MagicCat
I'm working through the royal road to card magic. I can control a card with the overhand shuffle, I can also riffle shuffle keeping a card at the top or bottom, I can do a glide really well (its my favorite right now. I skipped the chapter on flourishes. Palming was the next chapter. Yesterday, I skipped ahead to more overhand shuffles and found a better overhand shuffle control. I also know the basics of using a key card. That about covers it.

OK, in my opinion you're not ready for palming yet. One of my mentors told me this about RRTCM:

Quote:
You don't have to be able to do everything in there, but you absolutely need to understand everything in there.

You would be shocked at what you can accomplish with what you already know. I noticed that you don't have 100 posts yet, so I can't tip the secret here, but if you like you can PM me and I'll describe a great trick that I use all the time and doesn't require any more than you've already learned!

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MagicCat

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Reply with quote  #16 
Okay. I think I'll take a break on worrying about palming and keep working on what I know. As for age, I'm 32, so I think my hands are done growing. [smile]
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DV Harris

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Reply with quote  #17 
It's gratifying to know that you are not letting the size of your hands deter you. Some of the best have, and had, small hands, and used palms effectively through precise technique, and management, confidence, and fearlessness. Harry Lorayne, and Howie Schawartzman, both have small hands, as did Max Malini, and Irv Weiner. 

Gambler's Cop is very effective, but difficult to pull off at times, like if the target card(s) are on top of the deck. You might want to consider looking Gambler's Palm, or the Tenkai Palm, or even The Flat Palm, all of which can be used to remove cards from the top of the deck.

Of course, you could contrive to have every card on the bottom prior to copping, but this will clutter your magic with what appears to be superfluous moves.

     ~  DV
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Steven Youell

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Reply with quote  #18 
Quote:
Originally Posted by DV Harris
You might want to consider looking Gambler's Palm, or the Tenkai Palm, or even The Flat Palm, all of which can be used to remove cards from the top of the deck.

I would strongly advise against that, as I alluded to in my previous post. You're not ready to tackle any of those moves yet.

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Steven Youell

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Reply with quote  #19 

Quote:
Originally Posted by MagicCat
Okay. I think I'll take a break on worrying about palming and keep working on what I know. As for age, I'm 32, so I think my hands are done growing. [smile]

I understand!  Often people on forums give advice before they know anything about who they're giving it to! I used to do that and it took me a long time to break the habit!  [wink]


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MagicCat

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Reply with quote  #20 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steven Youell


I understand!  Often people on forums give advice before they know anything about who they're giving it to! I used to do that and it took me a long time to break the habit!  [wink]


I'll still take all the advice I can. I am very committed to learning this the right way. It's so easy to get excited and jump ahead of myself. How does one knew when to move on to the next chapter?
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Chi Han

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Reply with quote  #21 
Both Steven and Mark are excellent and very established magicians. At the same time I don't really understand why you would ever not try to do a move because it's 'too difficult' or too advanced. Nobody can assess if thats the case as well as you can right now, and as you've expressed interest, I don't see why we shouldn't all give the best advice we can.

I think the opposite problem exists far more in magic. Far too many magicians I know don't perform palms or faros because they deem them 'too difficult'. I know a lot who would never think of even attempting to learn a memorized deck for the same reason, people who have been doing magic for years. As a result they use things like 'no palm card to wallets', which I feel weakens the effect, particularly when they start to ignore other moves because of it. They don't practice palms because it's 'too hard', when they've never even tried, which is a shame because they obviously REALLY want to palm.

The amount of times i've heard, oh I'll never be able to palm because my hands are too small, or weak, or dry, or because they just don't get it. And they never even bother to do what MagicCat is doing and asking for advice on what to do about that problem.

I put off palming for a long time because I had the same mentality. In fact if it hadn't been for the fact that I accidentally bought the wrong wallet (I was trying to buy one of those no-palm wallets), I probably would never have even tried to palm for the rest of my life! Now I'm still terrible at it, but because of that I don't give myself the 'that move is too tricky/advanced/difficult' excuse. I've been doing stuff that is wayyy too advanced for my abilities, but a man's reach should always exceed his grasp.

Honestly I'm of the opinion that all moves in card magic are too advanced. The double lift was the first 'move' I've ever learned, and I practice it every day, and I'm still learning about it! There are so many subtleties in just getting a break that can fill a book! Should we tell people not to do the double lift until they've mastered the single lift? (Actually for that example probably).

I don't want to cause any offence, and as I've said, I'm still quite new and terrible at this, I just think telling someone they are getting too far ahead of themselves is entirely the wrong thing to say to someone asking for help.
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Steven Youell

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Reply with quote  #22 

Quote:
Originally Posted by ScreenguardGuy
I just think telling someone they are getting too far ahead of themselves is entirely the wrong thing to say to someone asking for help.

Respectfully, I strongly disagree. Teaching someone HOW to learn is just as important as teaching them WHAT to learn.

  • If someone came to me and told me they wanted to learn to hunt and they wanted to go next weekend, would I just go? Wouldn't it be better to make sure they've had a gun safety course first? What if they've never even held a rifle?
  • If someone wanted to be a doctor, but didn't want to spend time in medical school learning the basics, would you hand him a scalpel?
  • If someone wanted to learn how to cook, shouldn't they know how to use a measuring cup?
  • If someone wanted to learn Calculus, wouldn't they have to learn Algebra first?

Not once did I say that move is too hard for her to learn. In fact, you should take note that I was the only one in this thread who asked evaluation questions of the OP.  What I said was that she wasn't ready to learn how to palm cards yet.

This issue isn't about hard moves vs. difficult moves. It's about the right way to learn Magic and the right way to teach Magic.

Beginners have no idea of what's out there and they have no knowledge regarding the relative merits, difficulties or utility of various sleights.

I think of it as my responsibility as a teacher to educate them to those factors and teach them the most effective way to learn magic.

sy

P.S. I just read my post and it might seem to some as if I was irritated at ScreenguardGuy-- but I'm not. His concern is for the OP and I appreciate that. However this is a subject that is dear to my heart because it was something my mentors were fanatic about. I cannot tell you how many times I heard "You're not ready for that yet."  I did not see the wisdom of this approach until years later. And now I am very, very thankful for it.


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Chi Han

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Reply with quote  #23 
I can understand teaching in an order if that has some chain. For example if you needed one concept to learn another, but how do you define that here? What does the overhand shuffle have to do with learning to palm a card?

The first magic DVD and full trick I learnt was Sam the Bellhop. I learnt to zarrow long before I learnt to overhand shuffle. The zarrow is certainly more difficult, but knowing how to do an overhand shuffle, I don't think makes learning a zarrow easier, or a palm for that matter.

I obviously don't have the experience that you do Stephen, I never had a mentor and I don't think I quite understand your concern. Since i misunderstood last time (I read 'you're not ready' as 'this move is too difficult/advanced'), I want to make sure i understand what you're getting across.

Are you saying that:

1) The sleights that people should learn should be in a certain order.

2) This order is not determined by how difficult the move is, but how useful (is this the right word?) It would be

3) By learning these more fundamental (again I'm not sure if this is the right word) moves and mastering them before moving on beginner will have a better idea of how to employ them

I'm not saying that this is what you are saying, I'm just saying that's what your post is saying to me. Please do let me know if I've misinterpreted you


P.S.

I also want to make sure that i am clear. There is no doubt in my mind that Steven is 100% correct. I think me arguing with him would be like a McDonalds employee arguing with a 3 michelin star chef on how to make a burger. I don't want to argue, i want to ask questions.

I know he's correct, I just want to know why he's correct, and clarify it for my own understanding. I see similar sentiments in print from such teachers as Darwin Ortiz and Roberto Giobbi, and I've certainly learnt card magic in a manner that is unconventional, but as it is a rare opportunity to find an established magician who will explain why things are the way they are, I would really appreciate the opportunity to get a more detailed answer.
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mark lewis

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Reply with quote  #24 

I HIGHLY recommend the young lady learns to palm cards, if not now then sooner or later. It is such a useful move and opens up a whole plethora of wonderful material. And she will be able to do something that many, many people in magic can't. The tricks in the Royal Road chapter on palming have built in misdirection and cover for the actions that even if the palming is not perfect the tricks can still be mastered.


I have studied the Royal Road to Card Magic inside out. I know it backwards, forwards, zigzag and inside out. It has been my bible for many years. I may well know this book more thoroughly than anyone else does. I learned to palm cards from this book with a little persistence and I can assure Magic Cat that she will be able to do so too.

In the name of God find a  tape measure and tell me the dimensions of  your hand. I bet it is around the same size as mine and I have been palming cards for decades. I also have small hands If my hand is bigger than yours it won't be by much. I am psychic and know these things! And use bridge cards! You haven't told us yet what size cards you have been using.

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mark lewis

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Reply with quote  #25 

Magic Cat tells us she is good at the glide. Well that is a very good start. I love the glide move although you will find lots of magicians telling you that it is not a good move. Completely ignore them. They can't do it properly.The famous card magician Dr Daley said there were only about 6 people in the United States that can do the glide properly so you should be proud of yourself.


However, the reason for this post is to tell you how to make the glide even better. It is a sort of optical illusion based on the retention of vision principle. Show the bottom card in the normal way with the left hand. (assuming you are right handed). Now tap the face card with the middle finger of your right hand. Do the move as normal but DO NOT REMOVE THE MIDDLE FINGER FROM THE FACE CARD. The optical illusion resulting from this will make the move far more illusive. You are just doing the glide the way you normally do it but with the middle finger touching the bottom card and keeping it there. The finger doesn't have to do a thing. The left hand does all the work. Then do the glide and remove the next card with the middle finger.

Oh, and for this it doesn't matter what size your bloody hand is!

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Steven Youell

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Reply with quote  #26 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mark lewis
I HIGHLY recommend the young lady learns to palm cards, if not now then sooner or later.

I agree! I never said anything contrary to that. All we disagree on is the time frame. I don't think she should worry about palming at this stage, that's all.

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mark lewis

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Reply with quote  #27 
I like to stick to the plan the Royal Road maps out. I even wish she hadn't skipped the Flourish chapter. Obsessive Compulsive Disorder on my part no doubt
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Steven Youell

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Reply with quote  #28 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mark lewis
I like to stick to the plan the Royal Road maps out. I even wish she hadn't skipped the Flourish chapter. Obsessive Compulsive Disorder on my part no doubt

Totally understood. And I'm OK with disagreeing on some of these minor points. [biggrin]

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Nicolás Pierri

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Reply with quote  #29 

screenguardguy im more with you , i dont think that there must be a CORRECT road to follow, for me for example i NEVER READ bobo, yea you hear me i never  read it and i think that my coin magic is preety interesting, i never read royal road, card college, and my card magic is OK. i can pass, i can top change, i can PALM, i can do some of the "hardest" moves in card magic  i can do a lot of stuff preety well, of course i can make my moves better and better with the days until i die xD

of course i didnt read those but i read tons of other stuff mainly not classics, i preffer to learn that way. (again this is just what im doing)

 

the reason from which i never read a large ENCICLOPEDIC style book is in fact THAT SAME REASON THAT ARE GIVING YOU TROUBLES MAGIC CAT, if you read something like card college and you understand it as a magic course then you are gonna go chapter by chapter and until not mastering the previous you cant go on and that ofr me is not good, magic is an art and as all arte is a creative procces , and as all creative procces it has no defined path, i never read bobo but im preety much better than lot of guys who read it, so a lil advice i can give you that it worked well me for my learning procces was : 

read all the book first, do not spend to much time trying to do all perfectly just read it.

doing that you are giving your subconcius some food for thought, you are adquiring knowledge in a subliminl way, then once you finished, read it again, if you feel to read something first do it if you fell to read it the same way do it , try to hear what you feel dont hear what others nor what I AM TELLING YOU RIGHT NOW. just follow what you FEEL, you cant be wrong!!!

besides all people are different all people has different learning procceses, all people has diferent skills, way of think etc, so we can tell you a lot on what was better fo US but it would be (and trust me on this one) way better that you learned THE HARD WAY , making mistakes, doing things wrong, etc since once you REALIZE THAT YOU ARE DOING WRONG AND YOU START TO CHANGE IT AND DO IT WELL , THEN THE SATISFACTION AND REWARD YOUR MIND AND YOUR BEEING IS GONNA FELL IT WILL BE WAAAAAAY INTENSEEEE AND YOU ARE GONNA LEARN WAYYYYY MORE [smile]

 

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MagicCat

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Reply with quote  #30 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mark lewis
OK. I think it might be helpful if you could give us the exact measurements of your hands. Length and width. Maybe I am wrong but I bet the card fits somehow. I am a palmist and have looked at thousands upon thousands of hands. I have never seen a single one that is smaller than a playing card.

What measurements should I take? Also, would you read my palm? [smile] lol
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Steven Youell

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Reply with quote  #31 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mark lewis
I have never seen a single one that is smaller than a playing card.

Funny thing, that. I've seen dozens and dozens. And it's a scientific fact that hand size varies. Just a 10% difference will have an effect on how you palm a card. It doesn't mean you can't palm, it just means you'll have to make some adjustments.

I think the confusion here is that people believe the most important measurement is length and width.
That is not true. The crucial factor is the diagonal line I demonstrate here.

If you have any questions, please PM me-- I'm leaving this thread alone for now.

sy

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mark lewis

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Reply with quote  #32 

Quote:
Originally Posted by MagicCat
What measurements should I take? Also, would you read my palm? [smile] lol

 

Oh, bloody hell! I forgot what a draw palmistry is! I have always said that ten times as many people would prefer to have their palms read than watch a bloody card trick! The trouble is that I prefer to do the card tricks!

I have already posted somewhere my crash course in palmistry. If you read that you will be able to read your own palm!


I just want to know the length in inches the tip of your middle finger down to your wrist. That is lengthways. And the width from one side of the hand to the other.

Oh dear, I wish I hadn't started this!

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MagicCat

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Reply with quote  #33 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mark lewis

 

Oh, bloody hell! I forgot what a draw palmistry is! I have always said that ten times as many people would prefer to have their palms read than watch a bloody card trick! The trouble is that I prefer to do the card tricks!

I have already posted somewhere my crash course in palmistry. If you read that you will be able to read your own palm!


I just want to know the length in inches the tip of your middle finger down to your wrist. That is lengthways. And the width from one side of the hand to the other.

Oh dear, I wish I hadn't started this!


I was joking about reading my palm. [smile] I bet you get asked that ALL the time!

Any way, hand measurements are length: 6 inches exactly. Width: 3.25 inches. I use poker sized cards.

And if it helps, I have gone back to the flourishes chapter and I'm not going to skip ahead anymore.
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mark lewis

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Reply with quote  #34 

Stephen doesn't want me to advise  you on his section anymore so if you want any further info by all means post elsewhere and I will try to assist you.

PS. Use Bridge Cards! Problem solved!

PPS. My hands are 7inches long and the same width as  yours! You are only an inch shorter than mine!

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Steven Youell

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Reply with quote  #35 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mark lewis
Stephen doesn't want me to advise  you on his section anymore so if you want any further info by all means post elsewhere and I will try to assist you.

This isn't my section Mark-- you can post anything here you want.

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mark lewis

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Reply with quote  #36 

Sorry, my psychic powers are waning...................

I don't know which section is which any more.

OK. Let me get a couple of playing cards. One a poker size and one a bridge size. And a tape measure. One moment please. Bridge size width just over two inches and poker size is 2 and a half inches.. My hand is the same width as the cat lady. 2 and a half inches wide card width on poker cards and slightly over 2 inches on bridge cards. 3 and a half width on both my and cat lady's hand.

Verdict. Plenty of room for palming width wise.

Now let me go to the I suspect more challenging issue although I don't know yet. The length. Both bridge and poker length is 3 and a half inches. The cat lady has six inches length so there is two and a half inches to spare. So on the face of it there is no problem but yet there might be. I shall have to investigate further because of the little finger problem mentioned.

Oh, I have no idea...............I would have to see your actual hand! All I can say at the moment is that there is utterly no rule saying you HAVE to do it exactly as the book says. Fiddle about with finger position to see what suits you best and I promise not to tell stuffy old Hugard what you are up to.

I think next week when I get time I may exert myself to post one of those awful you tube tutorials on palming which may or may not give you a clue. The trouble is that I will feel like one of those dreadful teenagers posting expose videos on you tube  so I shall have to make it an unlisted one.

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MagicCat

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Reply with quote  #37 
Mark,
Thanks for the help. A video would be amazing.

Also, I just wanted to say that you are very funny! I always laugh when I read your posts.
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mark lewis

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Reply with quote  #38 
Thank you kindly. I am glad you understand humour. Not everyone has a  sense of it.
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Tom G

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Reply with quote  #39 
Hi MagicCat,
I'm in the Steve corner.  Learn some basics, some easy tricks, then start adding when you learn about misdirection and timing. There's got to be at least half a million great effects that don't require palming.   I, too have small hands and haven't bothered much with it.  But don't let small hands discourage you.  I was having a conversation with Howie Schawartzman, and mentioned small hands, we then came to the agreement that our hands were about the same size.  He then grabbed a deck and performed (flawlessly) the useful card moves for magic out of Erdanse. 
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Harry Lorayne

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Reply with quote  #40 
   I was very lucky - when I became interested in card magic there was no internet - wait a minute, there was no television either! I had absolutely no contact with other magicians. So, I was lucky because I simply learned the tricks I wanted to do and learned the sleights that I needed to learn FOR JUST THOSE TRICKS. As time went by, "self learning" increased. There was no one to tell me I couldn't do so and so and that you'd better learn so and so. So I was l.)ucky - I THINK!!!

    (There is no T in Schwarzman.)
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mark lewis

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Reply with quote  #41 

VERY LUCKY, Harry! I think the bloody internet manufactures bad magic and bad magicians. Like you I never met a single magician at least for the first two years I studied magic. I thank God every day for it which is quite a feat in itself since I happen to be an atheist. If I had met magicians I would ended up as awful as they were because I would have been influenced by them in the wrong direction. I was quite astonished to find that when I did meet magicians most of them were horrendously bad! I couldn't believe that I knew more than they did.

I studied my art from books and I was all the better for it. I used to take what the authors said literally at first until my own brain started to question if they were really right. In most cases they were. And then I worked in a magic shop and your Close Up Card Magic came out. So I "borrowed" it and returned it the next day before anyone noticed. I found it full of such fantastic magic that I ended up buying it. I remember taking  little notes about some of the things you said in the foreword. And I went to work on your tricks some of which I do to this day.


It is true that there is no rule about how a person should learn magic. I was lucky to really devour the Royal Road to Card Magic which had a very thorough grounding in basic sleight of hand with cards. It made the study of your book so much easier. I think the ideal thing for a beginner in card magic to do is study the Royal Road and then go on to  your marvellous Close up Card Magic after that. If they want to, and their passion still holds, at a later date they can devour some of your other work. I certainly did and I recommend others do too.

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Blathermist

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Reply with quote  #42 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mark lewis
Thank you kindly. I am glad you understand humour. Not everyone has a  sense of it.

True enough, though most people have some sort of sense of humour.
What few seem to also posse is a sense of the ridiculous.
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mark lewis

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Reply with quote  #43 
Indeed. It's ridiculous isn't it?
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magicfish

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Reply with quote  #44 
Palming is much more than hand size or object placement- both of which matter of course.
Palming cards usually comes a little after learning to palm small objects such as coins, balls, etc. (cards can certainly come first however)
With learning to palm small objects we deal with the initial feelings of guilt which must be overcome. that feeling of being dirty which many of us have forgotten about.
Cards are no different in this regard.

The size of your hand will certainly alter your technique, but there are many more important factors involved, many of which I have found summarized thoughtfully by Mr. Wesley James in his excellent Enchantments. What natural actions can be done equally well with a card held out? Can these actions be incorporated into the handling of the trick? Do you even hold out the card or do you go immediately to its repository a la Steve Draun?
Jennings had large hands but his actions during hold out are worth study. John Carney is also an excellent source .

As Mr. James also points out, one of the Palms greatest strengths is its ability to add setups to a shuffled pack. A
good palm can often eliminate many unnecessary sleights from our handling. It is indeed a very valuable thing to master.
Now Im not recommending you dive into Jennings, Carney or James just yet. Read as many sources as you possibly can and you will piece it together with lots and lots of practice. You'll figure out what works best for you eventually. Good luck and have fun!

p.s. Paul Daniels had tiny hands and he was an expert card manipulator!




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mark lewis

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Reply with quote  #45 
I am in the process of posting a video tutorial on how to palm a card. It is a bloody awful tutorial but it might give the Magic Cat lady some idea. It will probably be another ten minute so. Or maybe even a couple of weeks or so if I can't figure out how to do it.
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mark lewis

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Reply with quote  #46 

OK. Here we go. Let us hope this comes out OK.

 

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Rudy Tinoco

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Reply with quote  #47 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mark lewis

OK. Here we go. Let us hope this comes out OK.

 



Thanks for taking the time to make this for Magiccat. You mentioned some things that I'm sure will be helpful to her.

For instance, being mindful of that thumb sticking out, watching those windows, making sure that both hands look the same when a card is palmed and spending lots of time with a card palmed in your hand as you go about your day (I still do that sometimes while driving).

Steven Youell has some great tips on the one-handed top palm that he may be willing to share here.

Again...thanks for sharing this Mark.

Rudy

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MagicCat

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Reply with quote  #48 
Mark,
That was wildly helpful! And entertaining too! Thank you so much.
By the way, as a magic cat lady, am I a regular lady who has magic cats, or a magic lady who has regular cats? [wink] We may never know.
I'm going to go practice now. Today is my birthday, and instead of going out, I'm going stay home and play with cards. [smile]
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mark lewis

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Reply with quote  #49 
Good heavens! You have the same birthday as Her Majesty the Queen! It is also a day after Hitler's birthday but perhaps we had better not get into that.
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Wesley James

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Reply with quote  #50 
Since my name has been invoked in this thread, allow me to point out that many card palm positions don't fully conceal the card within the palm. Thus, hand size is far less of a consideration than angle awareness. In much of my writing on Palming I provide guidelines on how to determine whether "concealed" cards are invisible to the spectators for whom one is performing. It is the combination of angle awareness and choreographed movement with the concealed card(s) that, when combined with proper execution of the steal and add-on techniques, that determines the overall deceptiveness of Palming techniques.

I am in the process of completing a major book, titled "A Call to Palms," which should be available within about a month--illustrations and the index remain to be completed. The book will not be targeted toward beginners but it comes about as close to being a comprehensive overview of the subject of Palming as anything previously published.       
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