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Rudy Tinoco

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Reply with quote  #1 

I know that there are many magicians who memorized a stack without memory pegs.

If you want my opinion, it's made much easier when you use Harry Lorayne's memory system. I had the stack memorized in a week (it could and should've been faster than that).

Basically, numbers become the sounds of letters and the playing cards become word pictures.

For example: 11 becomes T,T (one is represented by the "T" sound). The 11th card in the Mnemonica stack is the Queen of Hearts. I won't be crude, but imagine the picture that I created in my mind to remember that the queen of hearts is in the position that sounds like "T T".

If you're interested in memorized deck work, start by picking up this book...

http://www.harryloraynemagic.com/the-memory-book.html

And then run out and by Mnemonica!

Rudy


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magicfish

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Reply with quote  #2 
Rudy, I couldn't agree more.
Lorayne's The Magic Book is a life changer.
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MatthewOlsen

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Reply with quote  #3 
In Bound to Please the Aaronson stack is taught and teaches a simple peg system to learning the stack.  But after learning the stack in the way that Aaronson teaches it I wish I learned it with the peg system that Harry Lorayne teaches because that would have been more useful because Simon teaches a few short cuts that work for the stack but don't really extend to anything else.
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magicfish

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Reply with quote  #4 
If I'm not mistaken, Aronson uses Lorayne's system.
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Reply with quote  #5 
Another useful system is by Bob Farmer... It's the basis of what I use for remembering cards and can be found here:

http://lonesomecosmonaut.com/2011/memorizing-a-deck-of-cards-using-the-farmers-mnemonic-system/

I started with Harry Loraynes' book, but ended up using a combination of his and Bob Farmers methods, plus a bit of my own. It works for me.
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Reply with quote  #6 
The phonetic peg system is good, but some people find it hard. Another method I've learned, and taught is the journey method. Harry also discusses this in his books, and it's worth contemplating.
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Harry Lorayne

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Reply with quote  #7 
      Hey Socrates - when I "discuss" the Journey Method I discuss how ancient it is. As centuries go by things usually get better. It is nowhere, anywhere, as good as the systems I teach. And, the Peg System is hard? I teach the ten sounds to children in about 5 to 6 minutes, and have been doing so until some of those children are now old adults! And still using the Peg System they learned from me decades ago when they were children.

    I sure would like to know which of the "some people" find it hard - and why they do.
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Reply with quote  #8 
The loci method is indeed ancient Harry, however that doesn't necessarily mean it's antiquated. As I said not everyone gets along with the phonetic peg system, and if they find the journey method easier and it helps improve their memory then that's a bonus.

It doesn't really matter which system you use, they are just a means to an end - whichever one works for an individual, then that is the best system for them.
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Harry Lorayne

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Reply with quote  #9 
    Absolutely and obviously - to each his own. My "each" and my "own" is that it is definitely antiquated. Only my close-to-80 years(!)-experience opinion, of course. You might be interested in a couple of my thoughts on the subject in memoryimprovement.org.
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alexandercrawford

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Reply with quote  #10 
I hope Harry will agree with me that the journey system is in some ways fundamentally unsuited for getting full value from a memorised deck. To know the order of the cards (i.e. that AH comes after QD (and so on)) is a truly powerful tool (as Richard Osterlind has shown with his very clever mathematical stack), but is surely limited vs a technique that ties the card value to a stack number and back again (so that you know that there are say 8 cards between QD and KH).

Harry Lorayne's teaching of the mnemonic system (and similar in Nikola, Aronson etc) is a great way of learning that direct relationship, but personally I found the intermediate step (linking the number to a concept, linking the card to a concept and linking the two concepts together) to be rather "harder" than mnemonically linking the card directly to the number together with brute force memorization a few cards at a time (eg QD is having her 21st birthday).

I completely accept Harry's point that "harder" is not very hard!

For the direct "brute force" memorisation I used, I recommend Ian Kendall's latest bit of clever teaching https://vimeo.com/ondemand/threefoundcards which includes almost exactly the memorisation method I used at the end.


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Harry Lorayne

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Reply with quote  #11 
       Sorry to be so repetitive, but --- to each his own. (If everyone used "brute force" in order to remember anything better than ever thought possible - my books on memory training wouldn't have sold over 25 million copies all over the world, over the decades, and been in about twenty languages - that I know of.)

       You'd need to know my systems, of course, in order to understand, but - you're making something that is extremely simple/easy (once you know the system) seem difficult. Saying "(linking the number to a concept, linking the card to a concept and linking the two concepts together)" makes no sense. If you know my system you're not linking "concepts" - you're associating a definite (not a concept) that can only represent a specific card to a definite that can only represent a specific number. And if I know the numerical positions of two cards, which of course you do if you've applied my system, then you obviously also know how many cards are between them - if that's something you need to know.

       Sorry, but - in MY opinion, and within my pretty wide range of experience - using the "QD having her 21st birthday" idea for 52 cards is - again in MY opinion - just terrible!! If I taught that in a book that book would sell two copies, and I'd be arrested!!
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Barrett S

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Reply with quote  #12 
Funny how life works. I really want to learn the Aronson stack. Browsing, I found this post.

I own Mr. Lorayne's book and also "Bound to Please."

Now I have have a road to follow. And many positive reviews of the process by Mr. lorayne pertaining to the stack and more. And I know which book to read first.

A great start!

For a newer Forum, this was a gold mine for me and hopefully others.

Nicely done Rudy.


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Rudy Tinoco

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Reply with quote  #13 
Quote:
Originally Posted by tmfbls
Funny how life works. I really want to learn the Aronson stack. Browsing, I found this post.

I own Mr. Lorayne's book and also "Bound to Please."

Now I have have a road to follow. And many positive reviews of the process by Mr. lorayne pertaining to the stack and more. And I know which book to read first.

A great start!

For a newer Forum, this was a gold mine for me and hopefully others.

Nicely done Rudy.



So glad to hear that, tmfbls!!

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KenTheriot

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Reply with quote  #14 
I was so pleased to find that Harry used the same basic underlying system and phonetic alphabet that I studied many years ago. So I had the underlying process and pegs already in the old noggin. It's also in Harry's "How to Develop A Super-Power Memory." 

On a personal note from experience on using this system to memorize cards - I have found that as long as you keep the same consonants for each number, a different noun can be substituted. For instance, in my case the 3 of hearts is always a ham. It's what kept popping into my mind instead of hem. I also found it easier to engage my senses - taste and smell, which I found hard for hem. But note that the H for hearts and the M for 3 are still intact.

Not sure if that will be helpful for anyone else. I have a few other substitutions like this for a deck.

Cheers!

Ken
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magicfish

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Reply with quote  #15 
What was it that you studied years ago Ken?
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Socrates

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Reply with quote  #16 
Check out the 'Memory Code' by Lynne Kelly... it's a most informative read:

https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/29759605-the-memory-code
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Harry Lorayne

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Reply with quote  #17 
    Check out a post here on the forum somewhere where I told you about someone raving that he used my systems to memorize the order of a shuffled deck of cards in FIVE MINUTES. I have literally tens of thousands of testimonials like that over the many decades, but the reason this one was/is important here is that this guy IS NOT INTO MAGIC at all.
    
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Harry Lorayne

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Reply with quote  #18 
     Just found this. What I want to stress is that I have probably close to a million raves/testimonials re: my memory-training systems since 1956 but this is the only one I can think of at the moment wherein someone who is not into magic (so far as I know) and who can apply my systems to memorize a deck of cards in about five minutes?  What's also interesting is that teaching my system for memorizing playing cards was/is always just a sort of "throw away" in my books. Those books obviously haven't sold into the millions because of the card-memory stuff. Anyway...

"Hi Harry,

 

I have had your "Super Memory" book in the collection for many years. Now that I am 52, I thought I should study it. Only a couple weeks later, I am able to memorize a deck of cards in about 5 minutes - something I try to do once a day, lest I forget how to remember!

 

I am sure that I am not unique in singing your praises regarding your work - but what could it hurt? Thanks for the many years of entertainment, and a special thanks for teaching me mnemonics. You are the greatest.

 

Steve Shufton"

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Socrates

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Reply with quote  #19 
The Memory Code has some great thoughts on using the cards themselves to store further information... in fact Lynne addresses this on her website - you can learn more here:

http://www.lynnekelly.com.au/2015/11/my-130-ancestors/

It's another way to utilize the cards and only adds to Harrys many books and thoughts on memory techniques.
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Harry Lorayne

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Reply with quote  #20 
   "Adds to"?  I don't think so.
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Amazer

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Reply with quote  #21 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Harry Lorayne
     ...this is the only one I can think of at the moment wherein someone who is not into magic (so far as I know) and who can apply my systems to memorize a deck of cards in about five minutes...

"Hi Harry,

 

I have had your "Super Memory" book in the collection for many years. Now that I am 52, I thought I should study it. Only a couple weeks later, I am able to memorize a deck of cards in about 5 minutes - something I try to do once a day, lest I forget how to remember!

 

I am sure that I am not unique in singing your praises regarding your work - but what could it hurt? Thanks for the many years of entertainment, and a special thanks for teaching me mnemonics. You are the greatest.

 

Steve Shufton"



Harry - There is a Steve Shufton who is a magician and has marketed a few tricks over the years.  Maybe your letter writer is one and the same.

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Harry Lorayne

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Reply with quote  #22 
     Could be. He never mentioned that he was into magic. I think I may be mixing up his email with another one where the person specifically said that he was not into magic at all but that memorizing a deck of cards was fun.
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Harry Lorayne

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Reply with quote  #23 
       Check out the testimonial letter I posted in the thread captioned Memory Expansion. It's long - don't want to take up the space here.
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Gareth

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Reply with quote  #24 
I’ve got the memory of an elephant..As a kid mum and dad took me to the zoo. We saw an elephant.
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Jabs Mckee

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Reply with quote  #25 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rudy Tinoco

I know that there are many magicians who memorized a stack without memory pegs.

If you want my opinion, it's made much easier when you use Harry Lorayne's memory system. I had the stack memorized in a week (it could and should've been faster than that).

Basically, numbers become the sounds of letters and the playing cards become word pictures.

For example: 11 becomes T,T (one is represented by the "T" sound). The 11th card in the Mnemonica stack is the Queen of Hearts. I won't be crude, but imagine the picture that I created in my mind to remember that the queen of hearts is in the position that sounds like "T T".

If you're interested in memorized deck work, start by picking up this book...

http://www.harryloraynemagic.com/the-memory-book.html

And then run out and by Mnemonica!

Rudy



Rudy,  I can see how with TT you remember it is a queen, but how do you remember it is a heart, spade, diamond, or club?  

Thanks in advance!
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Jabs Mckee

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Reply with quote  #26 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rudy Tinoco

I know that there are many magicians who memorized a stack without memory pegs.

If you want my opinion, it's made much easier when you use Harry Lorayne's memory system. I had the stack memorized in a week (it could and should've been faster than that).

Basically, numbers become the sounds of letters and the playing cards become word pictures.

For example: 11 becomes T,T (one is represented by the "T" sound). The 11th card in the Mnemonica stack is the Queen of Hearts. I won't be crude, but imagine the picture that I created in my mind to remember that the queen of hearts is in the position that sounds like "T T".

If you're interested in memorized deck work, start by picking up this book...

http://www.harryloraynemagic.com/the-memory-book.html

And then run out and by Mnemonica!

Rudy



Rudy,  I can see how with TT you remember it is a queen, but how do you remember it is a heart, spade, diamond, or club?  

Thanks in advance!
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alicauchy

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Reply with quote  #27 
<QUOTE>Rudy,  I can see how with TT you remember it is a queen, but how do you remember it is a heart, spade, diamond, or club?  </QUOTE>

"Queen" is the peg for QH.

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Axel

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Reply with quote  #28 
I tried all the suggested methods out of mnemonica, pictures music etc. but nothing really worked for me because I haven´t used the stack on a regular basis. The associations I made up weren´t

really connected to the cards or the numbers, they were quite randomly. Then I made up Mr. Lorayne´s peg system in German language, the number-words are no longer randomly chosen words

but based on the consonant(s) structure of the words/association quite easily to re-remembered and so is the word (hope you understand what I mean...). And so are the words/associations of

the card-words. The picture-ards are in my system young and old magicians. Denis Behr is the JC (if you know him and know the size of his hands the association to the club-symbol should be quite

obvious...) or the KS is Max Maven (his haircut and the spades symbol connect in my mind...). The Queens are women who play a role in my life...and a funny aside, Rudy, I had the TT-association

made up myself...it also works in German language...

And the number-words are chosen that they connect with card-word, e.g." who´s the man(=32)"? David Regal (JD).

And now, finally, I can remember the stack because of the not-random-connection of word association that are based on the consonants of the words.


Thank you, Mr. Lorayne!!

Axel
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Rudy Tinoco

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Reply with quote  #29 
Congratulations on finally being able to memorize this stack, Axel! How exciting!

A whole new world of possibilities has just been opened up to you!

Rudy

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