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Rudy Tinoco

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Hi Everyone,

I know this is very last minute, but if anyone is able to join me...I've created the opportunity for us to have a Saturday Session this Saturday (4/13) at 2pm (Pacific)!

If you’re new to the forum, the Saturday Sessions are online video sessions (via Zoom) that allow the members of the Magician’s Forum to come together and share some of the magic that they’ve been working on. 

It’s a great way to get to know other members of our community while sharpening you're skills. It’s always a great time!

Please register in advance for this meeting at the following link: https://zoom.us/meeting/register/7ab50f13ae36dc638c34be5db4a05ad8

After registering, you will receive a confirmation email containing information about joining the meeting.

Those who attend the session will receive a link to the video recording of our time together.

I hope to see you there!

Rudy


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Robin Dawes

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Reply with quote  #2 
Hi Rudy

I wish I could be there ... but April 13 is the date of the Browser's Bash, the biggest 1-day magic convention in Canada.

All the best

Robin
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Dave Berkompas

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Reply with quote  #3 
We'll be in Las Vegas this weekend. 

Thinking of going to see Jen Kramer.


Dave
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Mike Powers

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Reply with quote  #4 
Dave - I'd love to hear about Jen Kramer's show. We're going to be in Vegas in early May, but her show is dark the day we'd have been free to see it.

But I should be free Saturday to join the group. Looking forward to it. 

Mike
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Lucas Maillard

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Reply with quote  #5 
It'll be 11PM here but I'll try to be there to learn from you guys.
Last one was really interesting.
See you on saturday.

Lucas.
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Hippie Torrales

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Reply with quote  #6 
I may be able to make the end of the meet. Get out at 6pm EST and home by 6:30pm. If still going I'll jump on then.
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Rudy Tinoco

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Reply with quote  #7 
I look forward to seeing you all.

Hippie, I really hope that you can make it!

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MagicTK

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Reply with quote  #8 
Performance of "Money To Burn"


PDF of how to make
http://www.magictk.com/moneytoburn.pdf

In searching around, I found "Double Matchit" by Jerry Mentzer in Close-Up Files, but I do not have the book, so I do not know the construction or method he uses.  This was just how I was taught to perform the routine and construction.  I am curious to see if anyone knows of earlier origins.  Antony Gerard taught me in 1999, and he has instructions from Roy Kissell from 1973-ish that he's still trying to locate.  Anyway, it's a fun routine.  Quick, visual, impact.

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Axel

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Reply with quote  #9 
Hi guys, great session, very good thinking and a lot of original and creative material you have shared. Thank you for that!

Andru, another coincidence effect along the same lines ( I think Luis mentined it on the chat) is on the Stars Of Magic DVD by Frank Garcia, Quadruple Coincidence, that I have to compare with your version.

Axel
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Wayne T

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Reply with quote  #10 
Agreed with Axel, great session it is so much fun to see you all share. 
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luigimar

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Reply with quote  #11 
Yes Axel, that's the one I was talking about... and yes, great session as always. Unfortunately I could not get my camera to work again... 


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JohnnyNewYork

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Reply with quote  #12 
Hello guys. I haven’t posted for quite some time on TMF (simply busy with other pressing things) but I wanted to thank everyone who attended the session today — it was, once again, extremely informative and I especially appreciate everyone’s willingness to share some tremendous insights, routines, ideas, etc. It’s nice to see that the magic at TMF still prevails — and I am referring to the observation that this has to be one of the most cooperative magic communities ever; the Saturday sessions are definitely “don’t miss” events that everyone should take advantage of! Again, thanks to all participants today and a very special thanks to Rudy for setting these activities up for us! — johnny
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Mike Powers

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Reply with quote  #13 
Great stuff today Johnny! The cement mixer shuffle was a hit. Lots of great thinking. Looking forward to watching the vid.

M

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Rudy Tinoco

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Reply with quote  #14 
Hi Fellas,

I had a great time with all of you! Some pretty amazing stuff was shared. The video is uploading to Vimeo right now and I'll send you the link soon.

I won't wait so long for the next Saturday Session!

See you then,

Rudy

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MagicTK

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Reply with quote  #15 
I agree.  The cement mixer was among my favorite parts of this session.  I can't wait to see the video because the card routines shown were phenomenal!  Great thought was put into the handling and presentation.

Tom
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Mike Powers

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Reply with quote  #16 
Sorry for my crappy internet connection. I'll fix that for next time.

RE: dollar to matchbook - I have one of those around here too. I don't recall where I got it though? I suspect that I may have gotten it from Roy Kissle since I recall meeting him long ago. He had some interesting ideas for the hooked coin as I recall.

Mike
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rready

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Reply with quote  #17 
First time for me on Zoom and didn't realize I was on the screen, sorry about that guys. Another great session by everyone. Looking forward to the next one.
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Craig Alan

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Reply with quote  #18 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MagicTK
Performance of "Money To Burn"


PDF of how to make
http://www.magictk.com/moneytoburn.pdf

In searching around, I found "Double Matchit" by Jerry Mentzer in Close-Up Files, but I do not have the book, so I do not know the construction or method he uses.  This was just how I was taught to perform the routine and construction.  I am curious to see if anyone knows of earlier origins.  Antony Gerard taught me in 1999, and he has instructions from Roy Kissell from 1973-ish that he's still trying to locate.  Anyway, it's a fun routine.  Quick, visual, impact.



Tom,

I may have some info for you on this.

I found where I first saw this.  It's on Mullica's Expert Impromptu Magic Made Easy - Vol 3

Tom references Jim Ryan.
https://geniimagazine.com/wiki/index.php?title=Jim_Ryan

Tom says that Jim taught it to him years ago.  So this could very well could pre-date Kissell.  But of course could also pre-date Ryan.  😉

Regardless, this may help you to find the true origin of the effect.
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Mike Powers

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Reply with quote  #19 
I'm still not sure where I picked up my dollar to matches?? I have seen Jim Ryan lecture. So it's possible that this is where I got it. I also know Tony Gerard and have met Roy Kissell so it's really up for grabs where my little gimmick came from. 

One way to present it is to reference lighting your cigar with a hundred dollar bill. This used to be a metaphor for being wealthy. It needs some context or it just becomes a weird oddity. 

Mike
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Wayne T

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Reply with quote  #20 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Powers
One way to present it is to reference lighting your cigar with a hundred dollar bill. This used to be a metaphor for being wealthy. It needs some context or it just becomes a weird oddity. 

Mike


It's really hard to find anywhere up here where you can still smoke. Lot's of cigarette magi's now unemployed. [rofl]

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Mike Powers

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Reply with quote  #21 
How about dollar bill into a Sanada gimmick using the same basic fold! It could be glued inside like with the match book.

Poof - gone!

Mike
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Wayne T

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Reply with quote  #22 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Powers
How about dollar bill into a Sanada gimmick using the same basic fold! It could be glued inside like with the match book.

Poof - gone!

Mike


That would be effective and one possible line of patter for the magi could be something like you can make money disappear as fast as the government... or money just doesn't go as far as it used to and it disappears as soon as I get it in my hands...

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MagicTK

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Reply with quote  #23 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wayne T


It's really hard to find anywhere up here where you can still smoke. Lot's of cigarette magi's now unemployed. [rofl]


Yes, less smoking, and it's harder to manipulate e-cigs... but there are still many other things you could/would light.  Candles, incense, barbecue, campfire, etc.  So, I think there are many possible ways to provide justification. 

Tom
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MagicTK

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Reply with quote  #24 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wayne T


That would be effective and one possible line of patter for the magi could be something like you can make money disappear as fast as the government... or money just doesn't go as far as it used to and it disappears as soon as I get it in my hands...



Dimishing Returns...  with money.  Fold it a couple of times, then it becomes physically smaller (mini bill glued to the folded bill), then fold again, and it disappears (via sanada)!

Tom
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MagicTK

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Reply with quote  #25 
In searching a little more, I found these:

The Dollar Bill to Matchbook by Docc Hilford   $9.95

Loftus International Empire Magic Dollar Bill to Matchbook Trick   $9.95  and $12.99 and $6.54



Tom Kracker

 

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Mike Powers

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Reply with quote  #26 
When did the Hilford item come out. I'm sure the item Tom K was talking about goes back very far into the past. 

I looked over my Jim Ryan material, but couldn't find the bill to matchbook. 

Mike
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MagicTK

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Reply with quote  #27 
https://www.maxsmagicshop.com/the-dollar-bill-to-matchbook-by-docc-hilford.html   <-- this shows Copyright 1991
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Axel

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Reply with quote  #28 
So, I now have had more time to check references:

My first shot on Close-Up Cavalcade Finale and Warren Stephens is quite wrong, completely different effect (matches appear in an empty book of matches) and I hadn´t read Tom´s postings here...it is indeed in Jerry Mentzer´s Close-Up File called Double Matchit by Mike Bornstein. The presentational hook is that you bet a Dollar to find spectators chosen card and if you can´t "match it" you´ll lose that dollar...fold the bill and it morphs to a matchbook. "I told you I would match it!". Then the book of matches is opened and inside you find miniature card of the the spectator´s chosen one.

The construction looks quite similar to me, I´ll send it to you, Tom, for comparison, ok?!

Thank you for sharing that one, it looks really magical!

Axel
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MagicTK

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Reply with quote  #29 
Axel,

Thank you for looking into this.  I appreciate it.  I would definitely like to compare.  I believe Close-Up Files is from 1994, correct?

Tom
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Axel

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Reply with quote  #30 
Yes it is. But the routine is taken from Mike Bornstein´s book Latest Money Magic and that is from 1988.
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Mike Powers

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Reply with quote  #31 
I'm pretty sure I obtained my trick before 1990. But, I can't be sure. Wish I could recall whom I got it from.

Mike
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MagicTK

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Reply with quote  #32 
Axel, that helps to makes sense.

I found Triple Matchit http://bryan-keith.angelfire.com/details/2435.html

Which says it's a variation of Double Matchit and this book is dated 1990.

Hopefully Antony Gerard can locate his instructions that he got from Roy (he thinks was early 1970's).

Tom
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RayJ

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Reply with quote  #33 
FWIW, I wanted to add some comments on a couple of the items discussed last Saturday.  First, on the subject of splitting cards, there is a reason why it is difficult if not impossible to split cards and have two,  thin pieces.  Cards are really two plies of paper with a layer of glue in the middle.  The middle layer of glue has a darkish tint that adds opacity to the card.  This is so you cannot easily tell what a card is by holding it up to light.  So then splitting a card you either get a layer of paper and the glue, or just a layer of paper.  Yes you can control whether you get two layers on the face or the back, but you get one or the other.  So attempting to split an already-split card is probably never going to happen because the glue layer will simply fall apart, there is nothing solid in it to hold it together.  Hope that makes sense.

The second observation is just to add some additional resource to the discussion of Topsy-Turvy Aces.  JohnnyNewYork, I enjoyed your routine.  I used to do the variation by John F. Mendoza from his "The Book of John", and it is yet another variation of Ed Marlo's original Topsy-Turvy Ace Control from "The Patented Shuffle".  

BTW, Mendoza's handling uses a Zarrow shuffle.  There is some riffle stacking involved and such, but nothing big.  He does also have a couple of points in the routine where you can spread the cards to show the supposed condition.

Anyone wanting to look up Mendoza's work on the plot can find it easily as it is the first trick in the book and probably the most difficult!
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RayJ

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Reply with quote  #34 
Found this link.  The change does not have the "instant" appearance that Craig's does.  There is a video demo.

http://www.magictrickstore.net/dollartomatchbook/index.htm
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RayJ

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Reply with quote  #35 
Sam Berland had a book, "New and Original Tricks".  There is a routine on page 34 called "Dollar Bill and Paper Matches.  Don't have the book, but wonder if it is a bill to matchbook thing?  Sounds like something Sam would do.
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MagicTK

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Reply with quote  #36 
Ray,

I found "Berland's New and Original Tricks" on https://store.conjuringarts.org/product/berlands-new-and-original-tricks-by-samuel-berland-pdf/ for $2.99.

It's from June 20th, 1933, but the construction and routine are completely different than the one I showed from Roy.

Tom
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MagicTK

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Reply with quote  #37 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Axel
Yes it is. But the routine is taken from Mike Bornstein´s book Latest Money Magic and that is from 1988.


I also checked out this version from Mike Bornstein, Double Matchit and made one with a spare set of matchbooks and a piece of paper I cut to bill size.  (I was too lazy to go get a real bill).  The construction is completely different from what I showed of the Roy Kissell bill to matches.  The handling/routine is also different.

I appreciate all of this info that you guys are helping to find.

Tom
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RayJ

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Reply with quote  #38 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MagicTK
Ray,

I found "Berland's New and Original Tricks" on https://store.conjuringarts.org/product/berlands-new-and-original-tricks-by-samuel-berland-pdf/ for $2.99.

It's from June 20th, 1933, but the construction and routine are completely different than the one I showed from Roy.

Tom


Thanks, good to know. I saw Sam lecture back in the late 70's. Just based on his original stuff I could picture Sam doing something similar.
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Craig Alan

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Reply with quote  #39 
Was the replay posted some place else and I am just missing it?
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Anthony Vinson

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Reply with quote  #40 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Craig Alan
Was the replay posted some place else and I am just missing it?


Craig,

I just emailed the link to you.

Av
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Craig Alan

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Reply with quote  #41 
Got it. Thank you.
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