Sign up Latest Topics Chat
 
 
 


Reply
  Author   Comment  
Socrates

Avatar / Picture

Inner Circle
Registered:
Posts: 609
Reply with quote  #1 
To those of you interested in Tarot card readings I'd recommend you check out the following trailer:



As far as Tarot goes EE is a bit of a trickster, turning the world of tradition upside down. He addresses the art of tarot in a poetic manner, allowing the symbols of the cards to speak for themselves.

If you are interested in readings, you may find this documentary's content extremely useful.
0
mark lewis

Honored Member
Registered:
Posts: 1,169
Reply with quote  #2 
Indeed. I have always said that best way to read the Tarot is to read the Tarot! In other words there is no need to use jiggery pokery of any kind. Do it for real. That is the best way. I figured out a long time ago that there was a logical reason why the Tarot works.
0
EVILDAN

Avatar / Picture

Honored Member
Registered:
Posts: 1,675
Reply with quote  #3 
I agree with Mark. The best way to read an oracle is to learn the oracle.
1. You'll be surprised at how accurate it can be.
2. If you have to repeat, let's say a palm reading, you don't have to remember the BS you told a person via various cold reading methods, you just go back and read the palm. The only time the reading will vary is if the palm changed. And it does.
0
damianjennings

Inner Circle
Registered:
Posts: 106
Reply with quote  #4 
Quote:
Originally Posted by EVILDAN

1. You'll be surprised at how accurate it can be.


Yes I would be. Unaware of any evidence showing it to be accurate. 
0
EVILDAN

Avatar / Picture

Honored Member
Registered:
Posts: 1,675
Reply with quote  #5 
I was hired to do some readings at a "womens event" a few years back.
There are lines on the palm that indicate how many kids someone has.
I saw three lines on one lady. Two were close together and the same size. I asked if she had three kids. (YES). Was one older and the last two born real close together? (Yes, the last two were twins.)
I also read my friend's mom's palm. I told her that I know you only have two kids but it shows that you have three. She said she had a miscarriage with her first pregnancy.

You can't cold read this stuff. It's there in the palm.
0
Rudy Tinoco

Founding Member
Registered:
Posts: 4,097
Reply with quote  #6 
Quote:
Originally Posted by EVILDAN
I was hired to do some readings at a "womens event" a few years back.
There are lines on the palm that indicate how many kids someone has.
I saw three lines on one lady. Two were close together and the same size. I asked if she had three kids. (YES). Was one older and the last two born real close together? (Yes, the last two were twins.)
I also read my friend's mom's palm. I told her that I know you only have two kids but it shows that you have three. She said she had a miscarriage with her first pregnancy.

You can't cold read this stuff. It's there in the palm.


Trippy stuff, EvilDan. Knowing the power of palm reading, do you steer away from speaking about a person's life line?

Most of us who have never experienced palm reading assume that it predicts your life span.

I imagine it could scare the heck out of someone.

Rudy

__________________
http://www.facebook.com/magicrudy
http://www.facebook.com/themagiciansforum
0
EVILDAN

Avatar / Picture

Honored Member
Registered:
Posts: 1,675
Reply with quote  #7 
The way I approach it is that it doesn't represent length of life, it represents QUALITY of life.
Ex: Your life line is rather flat, not curved. This indicates that you're not as active as you can or should be. If you notice as the line progresses, it starts strong and thick and then thins out. This can indicate some health issues later on in life. It's best to address that now. Get up, walk, exercise.
You also have stress lines that extend from the base of your thumb to your life line. Notice how at the beginning of your life line these stress lines pass through. This tells me that when you were younger you used to worry a lot to the point where it would make you sick. Perhaps even cause stomach problems, like an ulcer. But as you grew older and matured, you let a lot of that go. You know longer stress about things that you have no control over and probably found that the things you stressed about were things that you manufactured in your brain and never even come close to being realized. So, now that you have that in order, you need to concentrate on your physical well being.

0
damianjennings

Inner Circle
Registered:
Posts: 106
Reply with quote  #8 
Quote:
Originally Posted by EVILDAN
I was hired to do some readings at a "womens event" a few years back.
There are lines on the palm that indicate how many kids someone has.
I saw three lines on one lady. Two were close together and the same size. I asked if she had three kids. (YES). Was one older and the last two born real close together? (Yes, the last two were twins.)
I also read my friend's mom's palm. I told her that I know you only have two kids but it shows that you have three. She said she had a miscarriage with her first pregnancy.

You can't cold read this stuff. It's there in the palm.


Sorry, when I said evidence, I meant, ya know, evidence. Not a story. [smile]

If you really think you can tell about people's miscarriages because of a line in their palm, you should contact some science journals. I am sure they would love to run a feature on it, after they've done some simple research to prove it. 

You'd make a real name for yourself. 

EDIT
Sorry, that was overly sarcastic, which this forum doesn't approve of, so I apologise. I just get riled with pseudoscience. If it was really accurate, do you not think someone, somewhere would have been able to prove it works empirically?





0
damianjennings

Inner Circle
Registered:
Posts: 106
Reply with quote  #9 
Quote:
Originally Posted by EVILDAN
The way I approach it is that it doesn't represent length of life, it represents QUALITY of life.
Ex: Your life line is rather flat, not curved. This indicates that you're not as active as you can or should be. If you notice as the line progresses, it starts strong and thick and then thins out. This can indicate some health issues later on in life. It's best to address that now. Get up, walk, exercise.
You also have stress lines that extend from the base of your thumb to your life line. Notice how at the beginning of your life line these stress lines pass through. This tells me that when you were younger you used to worry a lot to the point where it would make you sick. Perhaps even cause stomach problems, like an ulcer. But as you grew older and matured, you let a lot of that go. You know longer stress about things that you have no control over and probably found that the things you stressed about were things that you manufactured in your brain and never even come close to being realized. So, now that you have that in order, you need to concentrate on your physical well being.



Barnum himself would have been proud of statements like that. [wink]
0
mark lewis

Honored Member
Registered:
Posts: 1,169
Reply with quote  #10 

I have read thousands upon thousands of palms. There ARE indications that there is something in it but no scientific evidence whatsoever although many years ago some studies were done at Bristol University which seemed to support the concept. However the "indications" I have encountered seem to have some consistency. Rudy will be delighted to know that there are references to palmistry in the Bible so it has been around a long time.

However, I one hundred percent believe in the power of the Tarot. And it works for reasons that would make sense to logical people with open minds. It is a tool to sharpen the intuitive part of the mind. And psychic ability as I define it is nothing more than heightened intuition.

I shall explain how psychic ability in terms of a reading works when I am in the mood.

0
EVILDAN

Avatar / Picture

Honored Member
Registered:
Posts: 1,675
Reply with quote  #11 
Glad to feed into your skepticism.
I hope your world is a happier place now.
0
mark lewis

Honored Member
Registered:
Posts: 1,169
Reply with quote  #12 

Quote:
Originally Posted by EVILDAN
Glad to feed into your skepticism.
I hope your world is a happier place now.

 

There are two types of skeptics. There are true skeptics who are open minded and willing to listen and evaluate. They are always polite even when they disagree. People like the late Marcello Truzzi for example.

And then there are the other types known as pseudoskeptics who are rabid and abusive, use deception and unethical tactics to attempt to prove their point. They are aggressive beyond reason and do great harm to their own cause.

I actually prefer it when my own clients are a bit sceptical. If someone is too full of belief in what I do they may have a tendency to be too dependent on me and that can be quite a responsibility to handle. If they are sceptical at least they use their own judgement to a degree and that is always helpful.

0
Claudio

Inner Circle
Registered:
Posts: 283
Reply with quote  #13 
Skeptics often put forward the same arguments to refute the existence of psychics and paranormal in general. A most commonly used argument is "People who believe in psychic phenomena are stupid". Studies have shown that there's no difference in IQ between believers and skeptics. Some more profound reasons exist for the belief in paranormal phenomena.

I am no believer (not even an ounce and I am not religious), but I would never disparage people who believe.

Here's a short discussion with UK's well-known psychologist Richard Wiseman. It's very instructive and I believe fair:

0
mark lewis

Honored Member
Registered:
Posts: 1,169
Reply with quote  #14 

Serious sceptics who wish to debunk are never a problem for psychics simply because we never get them as clients! They never want to pay for a reading! They will sometimes visit psychic fairs out of curiosity but they never seem to want to spend any money! A high profile psychic on television will attract more attention from the debunkers but they are usually spiritualist mediums. I personally don't get involved in mediumship.

Anyway I suppose it is about time I told you how it all works. Here we go: .I am afraid that many sceptics do not understand psychic ability. If I knew everything I could predict the Lotto. However that is NOT what psychic ability is for and is not the way it works. I have suggested in the past that sceptics define what they mean by "psychic". They never seem to be able to do so.

My definition is a trifle less spectacular and ludicrous than other psychic people. I would merely call it heightened intuition. When you do this kind of work you become very sharp indeed. The psychic stuff happens at a deep subconcious level and there is nothing whatever mysterious about it. We all have it but naturally someone who does it all the time has sharpened skills. I believe I know why it works too.

If someone sits down in front of me I know all about them within seconds without them saying a word. In fact I prefer them not to speak since I like the sound of my own voice and I know perfectly well if they start yapping to me the session will become too long and other people are waiting.

Now how do I do this? I sense things. And 70% of the time I am correct. You can't expect 100%. This is not an exact science like mathematics.

And how do I sense things? At first I was not entirely sure but now I believe I know what is going on. It is all perfectly simple.

Things happen at a subliminal level. Let us assume someone comes into me ten years previously. That person has marital problems. They have a relative who is ill. They also have money problems. They work say in the legal profession.

In the reading they will manifest certain signs and behaviours. I will have no idea what they are. And it is a very hard thing to explain. It is more than body language although no doubt that is part of it. They will have a certain look and there will be a certain feel for the situation.

Over the next 10 years the psychic will see hundreds of different clients but they will all have variations of the same problems. In actual fact there are very few scenarios. Most people come because of love problems and there are only a few situations that come up all the time. Same with money. Health issues and work issues. There are probably no more than about 20 or so different scenarios that come up all the time. I haven't counted them but that is my estimate.

Now here is the interesting thing. Each person will manifest the same signs, micro expressions and body language that people in similar situations will do. Again and again and again. The psychic doesn't have to study these indications. Indeed most psychics may not even be aware of them. However they will pick them up subliminally and not even know that they are doing so.

So ten years later a similar client to the one the psychic saw 10 years ago comes in with an identical set of problems. Or at least some of the same problems. He or she will also give off the same indications that someone did 10 years ago. Psychics who are not as brilliant as myself will delude themselves that because they know the chap is a lawyer, has marital problems and money troubles they will assume that God has given them great and wondrous powers that are not available to the rest of humanity.

They do not realise why they know what they know. I believe that through having done thousands upon thousands of readings they are picking up on subliminal signs that are the same every time. So they call themselves psychic.

I do believe 100% in the Tarot cards. Not because I believe they have certain supernatural powers embedded in them. I do not believe in Jung's theory of synchronicity even if I knew what the hell it was. I believe that the cards come up at random. However for very logical reasons which I do not have the energy to explain they WILL help the psychic to tune in to the client's life. They simply help the intuition process that I have already explained.

I can always tell if a lawyer is sitting in front of me. It happens very rarely but when it does I always know it. I know when a journalist or nurse is sitting in front of me. I know when I have a businessman. I know when I have a cop coming in for a reading (much more common than you might think)

How do I know? Pure intuition and experience. Not psychic you may say? I don't care what you call it as long as I am able to help the client and be paid for my services. The sceptics don't pay my bills so their opinion doesn't really matter.

What I am talking about is nothing whatever to do with Sylvia Browne or the claptrap that TV mediums come out with. I am not into guessing games the way they are. I am not a psychic medium and I do not contact dead people.

I do know when a close friend or relative of my client has passed away because this certainly fits into the limited scenarios that comes up as I explained earlier. And I sense the signs of it even though I have never bothered to analyse what those signs are. I just know. However I never contact the person because I know perfectly well that I can't.

Many psychics are sincere people who unfortunately are hampered by belief. That is why they get some things right and some things wrong. Luckily for them most people forget the wrong things and concentrate on the right.

There are very few outright frauds in the psychic business except of course some of the TV mediums and the gypsy type psychics. However there are indeed gifted people who do not understand where their power comes from and consequently are prone to deluding themselves as to what is going on.

I must emphasise that I never try to analyse how people are reacting. I barely look at the client. I am concentrating on their palm or the tarot cards. I pick up their reactions at a subliminal level. It is interesting to note that the more tired I am the more accurate the readings are. That is because the logical analytical part of mind closes down and the "psychic" part (for want of a better word) sharpens up.

There. Now you know what it is all about..................................................................

 

0
magicfish

Honored Member - Moderator
Registered:
Posts: 1,283
Reply with quote  #15 
Quote:
Originally Posted by damianjennings


Sorry, when I said evidence, I meant, ya know, evidence. Not a story. [smile]

If you really think you can tell about people's miscarriages because of a line in their palm, you should contact some science journals. I am sure they would love to run a feature on it, after they've done some simple research to prove it. 

You'd make a real name for yourself. 

EDIT
Sorry, that was overly sarcastic, which this forum doesn't approve of, so I apologise. I just get riled with pseudoscience. If it was really accurate, do you not think someone, somewhere would have been able to prove it works empirically?






Or claim James Randi's million bucks?
0
mark lewis

Honored Member
Registered:
Posts: 1,169
Reply with quote  #16 

That Randi challenge is fraudulent nonsense. I have always said that if you were to produce 3 tons of ectoplasm out of Randi's left ear or brought his dead granny back to life he would STILL  find some excuse to not pay out. Common sense when you think about it. I would do the exact same if I were in his position. In any event I understand the challenge has been discontinued. The truth of the matter is that sceptics or their silly challenges don't mean a thing. Or their organisations either. They aren't even a blip on the radar. Nobody takes the slightest bit of notice of them except boring academics in universities. The psychic industry is a billion dollar business. It hardly needs to worry about a few nerdy people who put out a silly magazine with a circulation of about 100 people.

I met Randi once. Amusing chap. I got a feeling he likes psychics more than he lets on.

0
magicfish

Honored Member - Moderator
Registered:
Posts: 1,283
Reply with quote  #17 
I've met him several times. My best friend in magic left school to study with him full time .
Brilliant magician. One of the best all around.
He can do everything from manipulation to escapes to psychic phenomena (better than geller or anyone else for that matter). And he can do almost every item from Gardner's Impromptu magic.
Truly one of the great magicians of our time.
Oh...and he would most certainly pay out. Trouble is, nobody has ever tried to claim it. Funny that.
0
mark lewis

Honored Member
Registered:
Posts: 1,169
Reply with quote  #18 
Of course he wouldn't pay out! Would YOU? Even if there was incontrovertible evidence? Of course you bloody wouldn't! And people HAVE tried to claim it. I even know a psychic who told me that he won the money but Randi refused to pay him! I thought he was daft enough to apply in the first place.  And they have had several claimants who were mostly self deluded and sometimes mentally ill people that wasted their time with this silliness. No reputable psychic would involve themselves in this type of thing because they would get a vibe that it was all fraudulent and would know not to waste their time with it. As for myself, I have already worked in a circus and have no need to be part of another one.
0
magicfish

Honored Member - Moderator
Registered:
Posts: 1,283
Reply with quote  #19 
Yes. I would. And so would Randi.
But neither I nor he need worry about any claimants. Ever.
0
mark lewis

Honored Member
Registered:
Posts: 1,169
Reply with quote  #20 

I shall merely say , "Have you heard the one about the three bears?"

Oh, and we psychic people don't worry about the skeptics either or their silly challenges that the public neither know nor care about. We are too busy earning the REAL money!

0
magicfish

Honored Member - Moderator
Registered:
Posts: 1,283
Reply with quote  #21 
Why, of course. ; )
0
Claudio

Inner Circle
Registered:
Posts: 283
Reply with quote  #22 
Nicely articulated post, Socrates.

One has to be careful, among other things, when discussing such a polarizing topic, of the Bias blind spot. In other words we recognize the cognitive biases in others but fail to recognize the extent of our own. This leads to dead-end discussions or worse shouting matches.

The only thing I would really object in your post is David Abram's quote. I must admit I did not know who he is until I Googled his name. I believe he mixes up different kind of concepts, but that would be for another discussion.

0
mark lewis

Honored Member
Registered:
Posts: 1,169
Reply with quote  #23 

Oddly enough, I have been quite astonished at the amount of magicians who, far from debunking or scoffing at psychic work, are actually very interested in it and believe in it wholeheartedly. When I first got into this business I assumed that magicians would in the main, be sceptical and disbelieving. Some are certainly but an amazing amount aren't.

Entertainers in general are supportive of this kind of thing, as are writers, nurses, and surprisingly even police officers. In fact all sorts of people in various professions seek the services of psychics. Businessmen galore! However, you rarely see lawyers and doctors. Or members of the clergy . Accountants never!

I shall now go and look up David Abram. I have never heard of him either!

0
Socrates

Avatar / Picture

Inner Circle
Registered:
Posts: 609
Reply with quote  #24 
You can read the full interview with David Abram here:

http://www.scottlondon.com/interviews/abram.html
0
Claudio

Inner Circle
Registered:
Posts: 283
Reply with quote  #25 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Socrates
You can read the full interview with David Abram here: http://www.scottlondon.com/interviews/abram.

I get a Page Not Found when I click on the link.
0
mark lewis

Honored Member
Registered:
Posts: 1,169
Reply with quote  #26 

Is this the fellow?

0
mark lewis

Honored Member
Registered:
Posts: 1,169
Reply with quote  #27 
That was very interesting and it confirms what I said about many magicians being interested in metaphysical matters rather than being sceptical about them.
0
Claudio

Inner Circle
Registered:
Posts: 283
Reply with quote  #28 
Indeed a very thought-provoking interview. I may even get his book The Spell of the Sensuous and read more about his ideas [smile]
0
Slowdini

Avatar / Picture

Inner Circle
Registered:
Posts: 97
Reply with quote  #29 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mark lewis

Serious sceptics who wish to debunk are never a problem for psychics simply because we never get them as clients! They never want to pay for a reading! They will sometimes visit psychic fairs out of curiosity but they never seem to want to spend any money! A high profile psychic on television will attract more attention from the debunkers but they are usually spiritualist mediums. I personally don't get involved in mediumship.

Anyway I suppose it is about time I told you how it all works. Here we go: .I am afraid that many sceptics do not understand psychic ability. If I knew everything I could predict the Lotto. However that is NOT what psychic ability is for and is not the way it works. I have suggested in the past that sceptics define what they mean by "psychic". They never seem to be able to do so.

My definition is a trifle less spectacular and ludicrous than other psychic people. I would merely call it heightened intuition. When you do this kind of work you become very sharp indeed. The psychic stuff happens at a deep subconcious level and there is nothing whatever mysterious about it. We all have it but naturally someone who does it all the time has sharpened skills. I believe I know why it works too.

If someone sits down in front of me I know all about them within seconds without them saying a word. In fact I prefer them not to speak since I like the sound of my own voice and I know perfectly well if they start yapping to me the session will become too long and other people are waiting.

Now how do I do this? I sense things. And 70% of the time I am correct. You can't expect 100%. This is not an exact science like mathematics.

And how do I sense things? At first I was not entirely sure but now I believe I know what is going on. It is all perfectly simple.

Things happen at a subliminal level. Let us assume someone comes into me ten years previously. That person has marital problems. They have a relative who is ill. They also have money problems. They work say in the legal profession.

In the reading they will manifest certain signs and behaviours. I will have no idea what they are. And it is a very hard thing to explain. It is more than body language although no doubt that is part of it. They will have a certain look and there will be a certain feel for the situation.

Over the next 10 years the psychic will see hundreds of different clients but they will all have variations of the same problems. In actual fact there are very few scenarios. Most people come because of love problems and there are only a few situations that come up all the time. Same with money. Health issues and work issues. There are probably no more than about 20 or so different scenarios that come up all the time. I haven't counted them but that is my estimate.

Now here is the interesting thing. Each person will manifest the same signs, micro expressions and body language that people in similar situations will do. Again and again and again. The psychic doesn't have to study these indications. Indeed most psychics may not even be aware of them. However they will pick them up subliminally and not even know that they are doing so.

So ten years later a similar client to the one the psychic saw 10 years ago comes in with an identical set of problems. Or at least some of the same problems. He or she will also give off the same indications that someone did 10 years ago. Psychics who are not as brilliant as myself will delude themselves that because they know the chap is a lawyer, has marital problems and money troubles they will assume that God has given them great and wondrous powers that are not available to the rest of humanity.

They do not realise why they know what they know. I believe that through having done thousands upon thousands of readings they are picking up on subliminal signs that are the same every time. So they call themselves psychic.

I do believe 100% in the Tarot cards. Not because I believe they have certain supernatural powers embedded in them. I do not believe in Jung's theory of synchronicity even if I knew what the hell it was. I believe that the cards come up at random. However for very logical reasons which I do not have the energy to explain they WILL help the psychic to tune in to the client's life. They simply help the intuition process that I have already explained.

I can always tell if a lawyer is sitting in front of me. It happens very rarely but when it does I always know it. I know when a journalist or nurse is sitting in front of me. I know when I have a businessman. I know when I have a cop coming in for a reading (much more common than you might think)

How do I know? Pure intuition and experience. Not psychic you may say? I don't care what you call it as long as I am able to help the client and be paid for my services. The sceptics don't pay my bills so their opinion doesn't really matter.

What I am talking about is nothing whatever to do with Sylvia Browne or the claptrap that TV mediums come out with. I am not into guessing games the way they are. I am not a psychic medium and I do not contact dead people.

I do know when a close friend or relative of my client has passed away because this certainly fits into the limited scenarios that comes up as I explained earlier. And I sense the signs of it even though I have never bothered to analyse what those signs are. I just know. However I never contact the person because I know perfectly well that I can't.

Many psychics are sincere people who unfortunately are hampered by belief. That is why they get some things right and some things wrong. Luckily for them most people forget the wrong things and concentrate on the right.

There are very few outright frauds in the psychic business except of course some of the TV mediums and the gypsy type psychics. However there are indeed gifted people who do not understand where their power comes from and consequently are prone to deluding themselves as to what is going on.

I must emphasise that I never try to analyse how people are reacting. I barely look at the client. I am concentrating on their palm or the tarot cards. I pick up their reactions at a subliminal level. It is interesting to note that the more tired I am the more accurate the readings are. That is because the logical analytical part of mind closes down and the "psychic" part (for want of a better word) sharpens up.

There. Now you know what it is all about..................................................................

 



I love how you put this Mark. I get it. Thanks.
0
Socrates

Avatar / Picture

Inner Circle
Registered:
Posts: 609
Reply with quote  #30 
Watch the whole documentary here:

http://www.snagfilms.com/films/title/tarology
0
Magic-Aly

Avatar / Picture

Inner Circle
Registered:
Posts: 612
Reply with quote  #31 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Socrates
Watch the whole documentary here: http://www.snagfilms.com/films/title/tarology

Socrates,

Thank you for posting this fascinating and incredibly thought-provoking film!
0
Mind Phantom

Avatar / Picture

Honored Member
Registered:
Posts: 1,239
Reply with quote  #32 
I think Enrique is a very interesting guy. He used to post on the Mental Image & The Mental-List ( both  forums that no longer are up and running.)

He makes a lot of sense with his philosophy and outlook. I have his Invisible e-books and Kenton Knepper's book Mind Reading where he contributed with a routine that I found interesting.

He should get into the professional speaking business talking about art, magic and poetry.

Best,
0
Socrates

Avatar / Picture

Inner Circle
Registered:
Posts: 609
Reply with quote  #33 
Another interestng article in which EE is interviewed on the tarot:

http://observer.com/2015/12/tarot-historian-enrique-enriquez-played-his-cards-right/
0
Previous Topic | Next Topic
Print
Reply

Quick Navigation:

Easily create a Forum Website with Website Toolbox.