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KenTheriot

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Reply with quote  #1 
I have heard some quite well-known magicians recently referring to a standard false transfer as a "retention vanish" or "retention pass" (both those terms mean the same BASIC thing - a different discussion :-)). Anyway, they explain it's called that because you "retain" the coin in one hand while appearing to transfer it to the other. 

This is an incorrect use of the term "retention vanish." The term "retention" in this context refers to the retention of vision that happens when the image of a coin persists in the spectator's vision for just a few milliseconds longer than the coin is actually in THAT spot in space. It's a very specific thing. In fact, I've seen a more specific term used that might help clear things up, and that's the "ROV (retention of vision) vanish."

This is a retention vanish:

And so is this:


This is NOT a retention vanish:


There are lots of good coin vanishes that aren't retention vanishes. And I use a lot of them. It's useful, though, to be clear on the terminology.

My two pence.


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Michaelblue

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Reply with quote  #2 
Good points, yes. I was thrilled by seeing David Roth lecture and when he does a retention of vision placement, the coin looks like it is going into that hand. I've aspired to make it look that way, and i am still aspiring.
The lecture was in 1990
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Mike Powers

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Reply with quote  #3 
Mickey Silver took the idea to a new level IMO. I have seen him live and can tell you that in his hands it looks like REAL magic.

Mike
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Intensely Magic

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Reply with quote  #4 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Powers
Mickey Silver took the idea to a new level IMO. I have seen him live and can tell you that in his hands it looks like REAL magic.

Mike


You beat me to it, Mike. Somewhere around here I have a DVD he sent me years ago. Looks like trick photography.

I never got a chance to see him in person, though.

i/m

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Mike Powers

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Reply with quote  #5 
The DVD definitely looks like trick photography. He is truly amazing. The coin eating looks incredible. Also the coin through head, back and forth.

Mike
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MagicTK

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Reply with quote  #6 
I have the DVD Mickey Silver sent me years ago, and I agree, it's so beautiful and smooth.  I really want to see him perform this in person.  I had practiced it back then, but could never get it as smooth.  I still occasionally practice it, but I've never attempted performing it for anyone.
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Mind Phantom

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Reply with quote  #7 
That Micky Silver video looks like the real thing. For my Crooked Gambling Demo I show how a crooked blackjack dealer steals chips via the retention vanish. That's the only coin move I know and I do it with casino chips.

MP
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Tom G

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Reply with quote  #8 
Mickey is a monster of a coin guy and a really nice guy on top of that.  Lots of Youtube videos of him.
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Bmat

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Reply with quote  #9 
This is the first time I have heard the concept that the retention is about ""retain" the coin in one hand while appearing to transfer it to the other. "  For me it has always been about the retention of vision.  And it is not that hard.  In fact I am willing to bet that most of you (Michaelblue) have already achieved this but simply lack the belief that you have.   It is a hard concept to believe that it actually works when you yourself are performing.  

I love the vanish, learned it a very young age with sponge balls.  Then I got to know Albert Goshman.  And learned the Goshman toss.  Not sure if that is the right term or not.  Where you simply throw the coin (as an example) from one hand to other.  The hands remain at least a foot across.  People swear they see the coin fly through the air!  Of course it doesn't and too me that is the most amazing aspect.  Often I have to remind myself not to simply stop after the toss and stare at the spectator in disbelief.  It is not about my ability, or even the late great Mr Goshman's ability.  Its about science, biology, human nature, and faith (in yourself). 

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Michaelblue

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Reply with quote  #10 
Bmat, I agree. It is a hard concept to believe. David Roth said that when you can see the coin going into your hand (retention) then you are doing it.

I do it during a routine, but never as a "hey, want to see a coin disappear " kind of thing.

Goshman toss seems cool.
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