Sign up Latest Topics Chat
 
 
 


Reply
  Author   Comment  
Mind Phantom

Avatar / Picture

Honored Member
Registered:
Posts: 1,241
Reply with quote  #1 
Hello,

I am interested in a "think of a card" routine because my Brainwave deck is wearing out and I am not sure if I want to make another one.

I am really not a fan of the ID because of the thinkness of the cards and I don't really care for Kenton'Knepper's KK.

What are some ideas you can suggest, or should I make another BWdeck?

Sincerely,

Rick-
0
Anthony Vinson

Avatar / Picture

Honored Member - Moderator
Registered:
Posts: 2,073
Reply with quote  #2 
Lots of "think of a card" options out there. John Bannon has an excellent offering in Mentalissimo called Rock the 'voque. John Carey offers several in his books, one of my favorites is Think-a-Think, in Crafted With Carey.

Av
0
arthur stead

Inner Circle
Registered:
Posts: 591
Reply with quote  #3 
Great recommendations, Anthony!  I also suggest checking out both John Bannon and John Carey's stuff.
__________________
http://www.arthurstead.com
0
Mbreggar

Avatar / Picture

Inner Circle
Registered:
Posts: 289
Reply with quote  #4 
Check out the ebooks by Michel Potts on trickshop.com. I love his material. In each of his very reasonably priced books there is a think of a card effect. However, I’m willing to bet you’ll find other tricks you will perform.

As to your poor old Brainwave deck... I’d strongly recommend spending 20 bucks for a “roughing stick” (Vanishing Inc). One stick and 5 minutes and you’ll make your own Brainwave decks that are easier to work with than the standard rough and smooth product.
0
pnielan

Inner Circle
Registered:
Posts: 114
Reply with quote  #5 
Question: are not the relative thicknesses of ID and Brainwave "cards" the same?
0
Anthony Vinson

Avatar / Picture

Honored Member - Moderator
Registered:
Posts: 2,073
Reply with quote  #6 
Quote:
Originally Posted by pnielan
Question: are not the relative thicknesses of ID and Brainwave "cards" the same?


Well, you'd think so since the major difference is in the way the cards are faced, but maybe Rick had something else in mind.

Av
0
Mbreggar

Avatar / Picture

Inner Circle
Registered:
Posts: 289
Reply with quote  #7 

I also really like Bannon's "AK-47" found in his "Destination Zero" book and one of his self-working DVDs.

And I still get mileage out of Vernon's "Emotional Reaction" which plays very much like a think of a card effect.
0
Paul Hallas

Honored Member
Registered:
Posts: 1,136
Reply with quote  #8 
The first chapter in my book "Mentalism With Cards" deals with the plot and will give you plenty of suggestions.

"One for Rovi" on my Clever Card Magic DVD  is similar to Vernon's Emotional Reaction but is better as you never have to look through the cards. 

John Carey has a few effects in his books that fit the bill.
0
Mike Powers

Avatar / Picture

Honored Member
Registered:
Posts: 1,678
Reply with quote  #9 
Aronson's "Double-ment" is a great version.

Mike
0
Mind Phantom

Avatar / Picture

Honored Member
Registered:
Posts: 1,241
Reply with quote  #10 
Quote:
Originally Posted by pnielan
Question: are not the relative thicknesses of ID and Brainwave "cards" the same?


Yes, they are. But with the Bwave cards you can show the rest of the cards are normal.

Great suggestions guys!
0
Waterman

Avatar / Picture

Inner Circle
Registered:
Posts: 567
Reply with quote  #11 
Personally I have always been very fond of the ID.

Those who are more purist at heart will naturally have solutions to the "think of a card plot" which don't carry the stigma of a gimmicked-deck-purchased-at-the magic-shop (or made at home with arts and craft spray).

I consider myself a purist in that the magic I perform must be done with simplicity in plot, well managed time frame, and consistent audience reaction.

The ID has been a true workhorse for me at many gigs in all the above mentioned criteria. Since I tend to stray from card magic, I am sometimes reluctant to perform the ID at functions as it can often overshadow the other close-up material I like to perform! However, I do perform it at EVERY gig and consider it a classic effect...even if others consider it a magic shop prop.

Are the cards thicker...yep. Do I notice that...yep. Do my spectators? Nope. 
0
Mind Phantom

Avatar / Picture

Honored Member
Registered:
Posts: 1,241
Reply with quote  #12 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mbreggar


As to your poor old Brainwave deck... I’d strongly recommend spending 20 bucks for a “roughing stick” (Vanishing Inc). One stick and 5 minutes and you’ll make your own Brainwave decks that are easier to work with than the standard rough and smooth product.


I've heard of this roughing stick before.I have used 3M photo-mount on the Bwave deck and Symbologic card.

I'll check into it...
0
Gerald Deutsch

Honored Member
Registered:
Posts: 306
Reply with quote  #13 

“Okay Mr. Magician, I’m thinking of a card. What is it?” says the wiseguy.

 

The magician, not to be embarrassed, tells the wiseguy to concentrate as the magician also concentrates as he goes through the deck and puts one card face down on the table.

 

“Okay, what card were you thinking of?”

 

“The four of clubs,” says the wiseguy.

 

“Yup, yup, I got it,” says the magician smiling as he picks up the card and without showing the face, puts it back in the deck.

 

“Oh sure you did!” says the wiseguy.

 

“I did,” says the magician as he goes through the deck and pulls out the four of clubs and shows it to all.

 

 

 

 



0
Mbreggar

Avatar / Picture

Inner Circle
Registered:
Posts: 289
Reply with quote  #14 
I also tried “wax sticks encaustic wax” from Amazon. It’s used for crafts. Cost about $7. I was told it is the same substance in Roughing Sticks. Perhaps, but there seems to be much less residue with the roughing stick
0
Paul Hallas

Honored Member
Registered:
Posts: 1,136
Reply with quote  #15 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mbreggar
Check out the ebooks by Michel Potts on trickshop.com. I love his material. In each of his very reasonably priced books there is a think of a card effect. However, I’m willing to bet you’ll find other tricks you will perform. 



I read "HomageReduxPotts" but thought he dragged it out too long to get the card where he wanted it with the demonstrations of possible reveals. Would have been better using his selection method for a straight 'lie detector' routine.  Coincidentally I used the free cut principle with packets for "The G.P.S. Card Trick" in my book "OOPS Just Cards".  Another routine I published using the principle for a three card reveal is "The Ultimate Think Stop" which appeared in my book "Magic From The Overground" and is a variation on a Dave Campbell routine.

After reading that Potts routine I didn't buy any of the others but from your comments I might have missed some good stuff.

I did hear once the roughing sticks were used for waxing surf boards but never investigated further 😉
0
Mbreggar

Avatar / Picture

Inner Circle
Registered:
Posts: 289
Reply with quote  #16 
....or....

Get some wax lips for Halloween and when no one is looking, pop em out then make an invisible deck on the spot!

By the way, I like Michel Potts’ material. I’ve always found it to be very well thought out and I know he’s worked through the effects many, many times with guests at the pub he works at.

0
jim ferguson

Inner Circle
Registered:
Posts: 92
Reply with quote  #17 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mind Phantom


Yes, they are. But with the Bwave cards you can show the rest of the cards are normal.

Great suggestions guys!


Surely they are the same as far as any display - with one "all" the faces are seen, with the other "all" the backs are seen. The relative thickness of the cards is exactly the same.

Anyway, I use a handling of Mike Vincents Brainwave My Way. I always liked the Brainwave effect, but was never entirely happy with the usual method. Mikes version solved the issues, and is the only one I use now (the handling I use is his original, as mentioned on the DVD - not the actual one taught).


Jim


0
magicfish

Honored Member - Moderator
Registered:
Posts: 1,329
Reply with quote  #18 
Roger Crosthwaite
0
alicauchy

Avatar / Picture

Inner Circle
Registered:
Posts: 117
Reply with quote  #19 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mbreggar
I also tried “wax sticks encaustic wax” from Amazon. It’s used for crafts. Cost about $7. I was told it is the same substance in Roughing Sticks. Perhaps, but there seems to be much less residue with the roughing stick


Never tried to build a full ID, but a roughing stick for windsurf boards (just one-two dollars depending on the water temperature) works perfectly for effects in which you need just one or two rough cards.

__________________
So much to do, so little time !!
0
Blathermist

Honored Member
Registered:
Posts: 1,037
Reply with quote  #20 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mind Phantom
Hello,

I am interested in a "think of a card" routine because my Brainwave deck is wearing out and I am not sure if I want to make another one.

Rick-


I must be well and truly out of the loop. Aren't Brainwave Decks available at dealers any more?
0
Blathermist

Honored Member
Registered:
Posts: 1,037
Reply with quote  #21 
Quote:
Originally Posted by magicfish
Roger Crosthwaite

A bit too cryptic for me Magicfish.
The only person I've ever seen do Roger's "Think-A-Card" to any great effect is Roger himself. Ditto his Tenkai Palm stuff.
0
Blathermist

Honored Member
Registered:
Posts: 1,037
Reply with quote  #22 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Waterman
Personally I have always been very fond of the ID.

Me too. It's a classic Sock Blower.
0
Anthony Vinson

Avatar / Picture

Honored Member - Moderator
Registered:
Posts: 2,073
Reply with quote  #23 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blathermist


I must be well and truly out of the loop. Aren't Brainwave Decks available at dealers any more?


They are. The Evil One turned me onto a guy here in the States that makes wonderful IDs, BWs, and more. They operate on what he calls "Fluid Separation" and are a dream to handle. Here's a link to his site http://www.mimesis-magic.com/index.html

Av
0
Ferry Gerats

Inner Circle
Registered:
Posts: 109
Reply with quote  #24 
I second Roger Crosthwaite. I've been doing it since the booklet "The Commercial Card Magic of Roger Crosthwaite" came out in 1981. It's one of the tricks that yielded repeat bookings and it has always been the sole trick I do when doing tradeshows.
__________________
0
Mike Powers

Avatar / Picture

Honored Member
Registered:
Posts: 1,678
Reply with quote  #25 
Ferry - which of Roger's items are you speaking of?

Mike
0
Anthony Vinson

Avatar / Picture

Honored Member - Moderator
Registered:
Posts: 2,073
Reply with quote  #26 
When I mentioned Mentalissimo in an earlier post I should have highlighted Proximity and Proxy Shock, two thought-of-card effects from the book. One limits the spectator's range of selection, the other is wide open - "Think of any card." Proximity is technically the easier of the two, but does require conviction and acting. Proxy Shock requires a single sleight. Both are strong. 

Av
0
Rudy Tinoco

Founding Member
Registered:
Posts: 4,196
Reply with quote  #27 
Here's an effect that I believe fits in the 'Think of a card" category.

This is from the upcoming HaLo Project volume 2.



Rudy

__________________
http://www.facebook.com/magicrudy
http://www.facebook.com/themagiciansforum
0
Mind Phantom

Avatar / Picture

Honored Member
Registered:
Posts: 1,241
Reply with quote  #28 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rudy Tinoco
Here's an effect that I believe fits in the 'Think of a card" category.

This is from the upcoming HaLo Project volume 2.



Rudy


The above video looks like Darwin Ortiz's Liars Poker..everyone get's dealt a five card poker hand, and though the reading of poker tells i.e the eyes, the voice, the body language, your able to tell which card they mentally selected.

It's Darwin's patter that makes this work. It doesn't come off as a card trick but, as a demo of psychological " tip-offs ", that one is holding a good hand, or a bad hand or that someone is bluffing.

Rick


0
Mike Powers

Avatar / Picture

Honored Member
Registered:
Posts: 1,678
Reply with quote  #29 
I'd mention "Routined Poker Mental" from John Mendoza as the original poker theme for the Princess card trick which is the generic term for this type of method. Peter Tappan wrote the book on this idea. It's called "The Impostress Princess." The expanded edition came out in 2011. The original edition goes way back. Mendoza's routine is in the "Additions to the First Edition" section at the end of the book. In that section there are also routines by Bruce Bernstein, Phil Goldstein, Barry Richardson, Jim Steinmeyer and yours truly (Heisting Histed Heisted). I taught an updated version viz. Heisting Histed Heisted 2.0 in my Penguin lecture.

Darwin's use of the ploy of showing cards and seeing the "tell" is a great addition as Mind Phantom mentioned.

Mike


0
Ferry Gerats

Inner Circle
Registered:
Posts: 109
Reply with quote  #30 
@Mike Powers.
The title is Think - a - card. My handling differs from Crosthwaite. One big difference is that I do not always use the gaze, I will also avert my eyes by turning my head, which prompts the participant spontaneously to tell you when the choice has been made.


__________________
0
Mike Powers

Avatar / Picture

Honored Member
Registered:
Posts: 1,678
Reply with quote  #31 
In Mendoza's routine, five hands are dealt. This makes it super easy. I'm not sure why you'd go with four hands? Doesn't that complicate the method and make for ambiguity. If you just deal yourself a hand, you're there.

Mike
0
Blathermist

Honored Member
Registered:
Posts: 1,037
Reply with quote  #32 
Frank Garcia published a bog-standard version in (I think) "Super Subtle Card Miracles". It could have been "Million Dollar Card Secrets," but I think it was SSCM.
I don't have these two books anymore, nor "The Book Of John," in which Mendoza first tackles the trick.
Garcia called it "Poker Mental,". Mendoza routined and came up with a new title, though I forget what that was.
0
Mind Phantom

Avatar / Picture

Honored Member
Registered:
Posts: 1,241
Reply with quote  #33 
In his book Scams & Fantasies Darwin gives his patter for Liar's Poker, but he say's that he doesn't want everyone using his patter " word for word ", so I have changed it so it would fit me. I talk about;

Card counting in blackjack  and why this isn't considered cheating~
I talk about the poker shows on late night TV~
I talk about how here in California that each year there are more cardrooms starting up~
Then I talk about poker tells..people wearing sunglasses at the table and so on~

I agree with Mike, deal yourself a hand and you'll be in business.

0
François Lagrange

Inner Circle
Registered:
Posts: 102
Reply with quote  #34 

The Mendoza routine is not the original poker theme as it’s based on Frank Garcia’s Mental-Poker published in Super Subtle Card Miracles. You can actually find the trick reprinted in more recent Garcia’s books for beginners like Magic With Cards or Magic with Cards: 113 Easy-to-Perform Miracles with an Ordinary Deck of Cards (identical contents, different publishers).

I believe the originality is in his adopting a "lie detector" aspect. By the way, in The Book of John, Mendoza is very scathing of the Garcia description of the effect on which he based his, and erroneously cites Million Dollar Card Secrets as the source of the effect.

You’re missing something if you think the Harry Lorayne effect, performed by Rudy, uses the exact same methodology as Mendoza's.

In the HL effect, the packets can be put back in any order while the performer turns his back and the recombined packet can be genuinely cut by a spectator, though Rudy did not perform it this way. This would fool magicians who don't know the method.

However, the Mendoza routine is terrific too and is the one I  use.

0
Mike Powers

Avatar / Picture

Honored Member
Registered:
Posts: 1,678
Reply with quote  #35 
Hi Francois,

I do appreciate the differences in the Lorayne routine. But I don't think a lay audience would see a difference. They'd say, "The magician dealt four/five hands of poker. We were asked to just think of a card in our hand. Then he re-dealt the hands. I was asked which of the new hands had the card I was thinking of. Then he removed one card from the hand. It was the card I was thinking of!!!!" Only magicians who know the method of Mendoza would appreciate that the conditions were different. You can put the hands back together in any order in Mendoza. And, if you peeked the bottom card before a spec cut, you'd be OK. But why bother. Do a false shuffle and deal.

The big difference is that Mendoza/Garcia is self-working and require no set-up.

Mike
0
Blathermist

Honored Member
Registered:
Posts: 1,037
Reply with quote  #36 

Francois:

Thanks for the reminder regarding the Garcia/Schindler book of self workers. Why I didn’t mention it is anybody’s guess. It’s on the shelf beside me as I scribble. "Poker Mental" is on page 56.

I had the original edition, but don’t any more. Where did it go? Answers on a postcard, please.

My current copy, "Magic With Cards," which I will be keeping, I picked up in a remainder book shop for about a pound, some 20 years ago. It’s a hardback with dustjacket, published by Barnes & Noble in 1993. 

 

Karl Fulves outlines a basic version in "Self Working Mental Magic". Possibly easier to track down than the Garcia/Schindler book. That said, versions of the trick are all over the place. At its core it’s one more automatic placement effect.

The poker theme is maintained in "Spineless," by Steve Beam and Doug Canning in "Semi-Automatic Card Tricks, volume IV."

0
Mike Powers

Avatar / Picture

Honored Member
Registered:
Posts: 1,678
Reply with quote  #37 
Try to get a copy of "The Impostress Princess." The entire book is about this method. 

Mike
0
François Lagrange

Inner Circle
Registered:
Posts: 102
Reply with quote  #38 

To make things clear from the outset, I am not advocating that one handling is better than the other, just different and they both have their trade-offs.

@Mike

Quote:
In Mendoza's routine, five hands are dealt. This makes it super easy. I'm not sure why you'd go with four hands? Doesn't that complicate the method and make for ambiguity. If you just deal yourself a hand, you're there.

Are you talking of the HL effect? If so, I don’t understand your point. What complication and what ambiguity?

Do you care to elaborate?

Quote:
I do appreciate the differences in the Lorayne routine. But I don't think a lay audience would see a difference.

Agreed.

Quote:
Only magicians who know the method of Mendoza would appreciate that the conditions were different.

During sessions, I like to fool magis as well as being fooled. I was actually badly fooled by this effect when presented by a fellow magician exactly as written in HL’s Reputation Makers.

Quote:
You can put the hands back together in any order in Mendoza.

True, but you’ll have to remember the order, so you have to know it and can’t turn your back.

Quote:
And, if you peeked the bottom card before a spec cut, you'd be OK.

Not quite.

In the Mendoza routine, the performer doesn’t look at the face of the cards, which is a strong point in my mind. Therefore you’d have to show all the hands face up to know beforehand where the key card is, and then adjust the reveal according to the packets order and the key card position. This is asking a lot. Therefore I don’t think you can shoehorn the Mendoza routine into the HL routine.

Quote:
The big difference is that Mendoza/Garcia is self-working and require no set-up.

The original routine, as described in Reputation Markers  (I don’t have the relevant Classic Collection Volume), has no setup involved – but, I must admit, is not that easy to perform as written. I believe Rudy demo’ed the second part of the routine and I also believe used a set-up.

IMHO, both Mendoza's and Harry Lorayne's effects are excellent in their own rights.

0
François Lagrange

Inner Circle
Registered:
Posts: 102
Reply with quote  #39 

@Blathermist

Magic with Cards: 113 Easy-to-Perform Miracles with an Ordinary Deck of Cards is actually quite easy to obtain second hand for a few dollars.

Yes Fulves describes the effect (or a variation) multiple times in his “self-working” series. It’s described again in Foolproof Card Tricks for the Amateur Magician and New Self-Working Card Trick. Interestingly, he mentions that the Garcia handling is based on an Eddie Joseph trick.

I have collected a lot of different variations and I had forgotten about Spineless. I read it again and it’s actually quite brilliant. Thanks.

0
Blathermist

Honored Member
Registered:
Posts: 1,037
Reply with quote  #40 
Francois:
Thanks for info regarding the Garcia book.
I haven't seen it anywhere for years; and where I live I haven't seen a second-hand bookshop for years either. I've spent ages mooching around and rummaging among old books looking for gems. Good times. But not any more.
0
Mike Powers

Avatar / Picture

Honored Member
Registered:
Posts: 1,678
Reply with quote  #41 
Francois - I think you're right in that both routines are excellent in their own ways.

I had forgotten that in Mendoza, the cards are face down. So you'd need a pencil dot on a key card to know where the cut was made. 

And you are correct in pointing out that the magi has to know the order the hands are collected in.

Mike
0
magicfish

Honored Member - Moderator
Registered:
Posts: 1,329
Reply with quote  #42 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ferry Gerats
@Mike Powers.
The title is Think - a - card. My handling differs from Crosthwaite. One big difference is that I do not always use the gaze, I will also avert my eyes by turning my head, which prompts the participant spontaneously to tell you when the choice has been made.


Crosthwaite's work on this is superb, maybe the best, or at least the purest and most thorough. Your treatment has me intrigued.
And I agree with Mike Powers about the Aronson effect, I just try not to mention it [wink]
0
Mike Powers

Avatar / Picture

Honored Member
Registered:
Posts: 1,678
Reply with quote  #43 
If some of my posts re:the HL routine that Rudy performed were a bit off base, it may be because I thought Rudy dealt five cards to each person. I thought I heard him say "poker." Doh! It seemed that five cards to four people couldn't work and that's true. But it was four cards to four people which works just fine with a very cool method.

Mike
0
Rudy Tinoco

Founding Member
Registered:
Posts: 4,196
Reply with quote  #44 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Powers
If some of my posts re:the HL routine that Rudy performed were a bit off base, it may be because I thought Rudy dealt five cards to each person. I thought I heard him say "poker." Doh! It seemed that five cards to four people couldn't work and that's true. But it was four cards to four people which works just fine with a very cool method.

Mike


Here’s another performance of “Four By Four”...


__________________
http://www.facebook.com/magicrudy
http://www.facebook.com/themagiciansforum
0
Previous Topic | Next Topic
Print
Reply

Quick Navigation:

Easily create a Forum Website with Website Toolbox.