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skinsinge

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Reply with quote  #1 
Hello everyone. Brand new member here. I was brainstorming a routine today that would require swapping a borrowed coin with a gimmicked one. However I also want to take it a step further by having the spectator initial the borrowed coin, which I somehow transfer the signature onto the gimmicked coin. All of that said... do any of you know of, or can point me in the direction of, a way to transfer markings from one coin to another? I've tried to research, but it's a difficult thing to look up.

Thank you in advance for any insight.
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Rudy Tinoco

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Reply with quote  #2 
I don't have an answer to you question, but wanted to welcome you to the forum.

There are lots of very friendly and knowledgeable magicians here who I'm sure will be able to help you.

I'm glad that you found us!

Take care,

Rudy


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luigimar

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Reply with quote  #3 
I know there is a gimmick to transfer signatures from one CARD to another, but I don't know of a similar thing for coins. The card gimmick was sold 20 years ago but it is not sold anymore. From the reviews I read it was not practical in the real world and it was quite pricey ($80).
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Michaelblue

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Reply with quote  #4 
How about a spellbound kind of thing?
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skinsinge

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Reply with quote  #5 
I don't know that Spellbound will assist me beyond teaching great sleight of hand to achieve an effective coin swap. Not to downplay how important and helpful Spellbound seems to be for coin manipulation; I just dont think it will help me with transferring a signature. I will admit though that I have not bought and studied Spellbound, so if there actually is more to the trick that would help me achieve my end goal, please reiterate to me that I should pick it up.

I was trying to experiment with various adhesives that I thought might be able to pull fresh ink and transfer it. No luck so far.
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Bulla

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Reply with quote  #6 
What is the effect you're going for?
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skinsinge

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Reply with quote  #7 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bulla
What is the effect you're going for?


A swap from a signed borrowed coin to a gimmicked coin that has the same signature (initials).
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Bulla

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Reply with quote  #8 
I mean what is the trick from the specs point of view?
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skinsinge

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Reply with quote  #9 
Coin A becomes coin B with signature intact. Due to signature, spec does not know that it is coin B. I prefer not to elaborate on the entire trick if that is okay. Just can't figure out a way to execute the specific effect.
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Bulla

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Reply with quote  #10 
Ok fair enough.  I was just trying to see if transferring the signature was your best option based on the effect you were trying to achieve.
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jim ferguson

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Reply with quote  #11 
Quote:
Originally Posted by skinsinge
Coin A becomes coin B with signature intact. Due to signature, spec does not know that it is coin B. I prefer not to elaborate on the entire trick if that is okay. Just can't figure out a way to execute the specific effect.


With all due respect - if coin A becomes coin B, but the spectator is not aware a switch has taken place, then that is not the effect as the spectator sees it. What you've described is what has happened from your perspective - as far as the spectator is concerned nothing has happened yet.

Not knowing at least the basic effect makes it very difficult for anyone to arrive at a suitable solution - any method is going to have certain restrictions.

Is the gimmicked coin to be given away at the end, or to appear in a remote/impossible location ? Is the signed aspect important for the effect ?

I ask this because I feel that the signing thing has become overused over the past decade or so. Magicians tend to love having everything signed, although alot of the time it is not required, and adds nothing to the effect. Just because something can be signed doesn't mean it should.


Jim

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skinsinge

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Reply with quote  #12 
The part of the effect that the signature impacts is a transformation of the coin from the spectators point of view. The signature is to validate from the spectators perspective that the transformation occurred with his/her coin, and was not in fact a swap. For the sake of providing an example to give you a frame of reference. Say I was doing a stretched coin routine, but also had them sign their coin before providing it to me. I need to figure out how to move that signature to my "stretched coin" to validate the effect.
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Bulla

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Reply with quote  #13 
I know this is not the answer you're looking for but maybe the solution is to not have the coin signed in the beginning.  Cig thru coin for example, it's never signed and it doesn't lessen the impact of the effect or prevent the spectator from thinking that you actually did that to their coin.  In most cases they think that the cig is gimmicked and not the coin because the thought of switching coins never crosses their mind.

I understand you want their signature on the coin but I'm not aware of a very practical way to accomplish that and in the end you might just be working to solve a problem that isn't actually a problem.
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Claudio

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Reply with quote  #14 
I am not much of a "coin worker", but what about having a sticker signed and then switch the coins and apply it to the gimmick.
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skinsinge

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Reply with quote  #15 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Claudio
I am not much of a "coin worker", but what about having a sticker signed and then switch the coins and apply it to the gimmick.


I have considered that, but it eliminates the ability to offer the coin back for inspection after the fact.
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skinsinge

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Reply with quote  #16 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bulla
I know this is not the answer you're looking for but maybe the solution is to not have the coin signed in the beginning.  Cig thru coin for example, it's never signed and it doesn't lessen the impact of the effect or prevent the spectator from thinking that you actually did that to their coin.  In most cases they think that the cig is gimmicked and not the coin because the thought of switching coins never crosses their mind.

I understand you want their signature on the coin but I'm not aware of a very practical way to accomplish that and in the end you might just be working to solve a problem that isn't actually a problem.


I understand, and appreciate the feedback for sure. This wasn't intended to be a "solve my problem" situation, rather more of an "Is there something out there to do this that I don't know about?" type question. If there isn't, then that's okay too [smile] It is a small detail that I would like to eventually work out whether I need to invent a method or not.
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Michaelblue

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Reply with quote  #17 
Jay Sankey has a coin effect called Swirl, in which a quarter is borrowed and initialed and he puts a sticker on it and puts a pencil through the coin, then gives it back to the spectator.

With a Spellbound move. you can have the signature erased and return the signature afterward. And, i would think you can change one signed coin to another in the same way.

I know i keep harping on that move, but a lot can be done with 


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skinsinge

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Reply with quote  #18 
I appreciate everyone's feedback on this. As stated before, I know very little about Spellbound as I have never purchased and studied the performance. I suppose I will pick it up and do some studying. It seems to be a staple set of moves for coin magic, regardless of my end goal. I will keep experimenting with methods to achieve my initial goal, though. I'm confident that there is a way to do what I want, just going to take some time. [smile]
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Geoff Weber

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Reply with quote  #19 
just dupe the signature, or direct them to make a mark you can easily counterfeit like a smiley face. or you sign one side, and they sign the other... and your side is the one in view after the switch.
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Robin Dawes

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Reply with quote  #20 
Sankey also has a technique that he exploits in several routines in Sankey Pankey- he calls it something like "The Only Two Objects Like This In the World".  It is a method for getting (for example) the volunteer's signature on two identical coins without the volunteer realizing it - or even realizing there are two coins in play.

It doesn't quite answer the original question but it seems related.
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hostlerj

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Reply with quote  #21 
A hint for ya:

Many, many years ago, Steve Dusheck (I think) put out a copper/silver sort of effect with two quarters sealed in plastic coin holders. One was "gold," the other silver. The methodological concept might be applied to moving a signature. Sorry I can't say more...
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Jeremy Salow

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Reply with quote  #22 
I agree that the sticker technique as of now might be your best option. It's not a new technique and has been used successfully for a long time.
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Evan S.

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Reply with quote  #23 
Quote:
Originally Posted by skinsinge


I have considered that, but it eliminates the ability to offer the coin back for inspection after the fact.


At the end of the trick you show the coin openly, then peel the sticker off of the coin and place it directly in front of them. This gives you ample time to switch coins again, so you can then immediately follow with handing the coin out for inspection.
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HexTheDoombunny

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Reply with quote  #24 
Another idea that I love and you might consider is from Michael Ammar for his coin to bottle. He would have a coin signed by spectator A then do the penetration and show another spectator, B, the coin in the bottle which and have them confirm the "markings." He would then remove the coin and show it to A again. A wonderful bluff using the properties of the special something to establish no special something. A similar ploy is used with playing cards in Guy Hollingworth's book Pasteboard Deceptions to allow a card to impossible location.
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Michaelblue

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Reply with quote  #25 
Justin Miller has trick like this, dont know the name. Uses dry erase markers. It's on the Ellusionist site
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skinsinge

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Reply with quote  #26 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Michaelblue
Justin Miller has trick like this, dont know the name. Uses dry erase markers. It's on the Ellusionist site


I'll look into this. Thank you.
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skinsinge

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Reply with quote  #27 
Quote:
Originally Posted by HexTheDoombunny
Another idea that I love and you might consider is from Michael Ammar for his coin to bottle. He would have a coin signed by spectator A then do the penetration and show another spectator, B, the coin in the bottle which and have them confirm the "markings." He would then remove the coin and show it to A again. A wonderful bluff using the properties of the special something to establish no special something. A similar ploy is used with playing cards in Guy Hollingworth's book Pasteboard Deceptions to allow a card to impossible location.


I actually never considered coin to bottle tricks needing a similar effect. Time to do some research. Thanks!
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HexTheDoombunny

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Reply with quote  #28 
And it was Drawing Room Deceptions. Poor memory is... Something. It's on the tip of my tongue...
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