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Mind Phantom

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Reply with quote  #1 
I like to keep it simple, it's a newspaper prediction effect from Richard Osterlind's Easy To Master Mental Miracles dvd called Koran's Headline Prediction.

I wonder why Derren Brown  doesn't like prediction effects, well, he says so in his book Pure Effect.

What say you?

PS: Another prediction effect I like comes from Larry Becker it's his Casino Royal from Stunners Plus.
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Paul Hallas

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Reply with quote  #2 
I don't have a favorite, because I like predictions in general and use a few in my stand up act. I prefer multi-phase predictions that build or three part predictions. 

I have the Koran Headline prediction from when it was marketed separately by Supreme Magic many years ago. Played with it but never used it in performance. Apparently based on an idea of the late Edmund Rowland a  mathematics teacher who lived in a neighboring town when I was in the UK. If I recall correctly, I think there's also a version in T A Waters Mind Myth and Magick. 

There is a clip of Koran performing it on the Ed Sullivan TV show on the web. Here's the link, third effect in. Good to see Koran work there, no long boring preamble or explanations, but three of his classic strong effects in six minutes.


 



Only headline prediction I ever did was a simple Al Mann idea, though I incorporated an old Anderson/Rutledge idea of sketching the front page of the newspaper. 

Actually, "Dream Vision" might be my favorite, based on an idea of Wilbur Kattner's. Here'a a clip of Copperfield performing it from years back. Quality of clip is not great and music terrible. Great effect.
 




 


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Mind Phantom

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Reply with quote  #3 
Thank you very much for posting those videos! I don't have any idea how Copperfield did that lol, hey, I guess that what makes him David Copperfield.

Also, the first effect Al did is on the same dvd as the Newspaper prediction, it's called Koran's Medallion i.e it's on the Richard Osterlind's dvd.

Best,
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Paul Hallas

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Reply with quote  #4 
Yep, Koran's Medallion  is in the first book on his mentalism "Al Koran's Professional Presentations" by Hugh Miller. There have been some updated versions by others since but the original still works just fine. I even once published a version by Arthur Setterington.

The blackboard routine WAS a marketed effect by Andre Kole(it cost thousands) but was based on an idea earlier described by Wilbur Kattner. Definitely a stage  routine.

If you can find any booklets by Kattner they are worth reading.

And....I've used "Casino Royale" myself in the past. [smile] one of Larry's best.
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magicfish

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Reply with quote  #5 
I like Kismet Connection by Ted Lesley, and Clubble by T.A. Waters.


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Paul Hallas

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Reply with quote  #6 
Quote:
Originally Posted by magicfish
I like Kismet Connection by Ted Lesley, and Clubble by T.A. Waters.


Kismet Connection is good using Norman Houghton's envelope. Not familiar with Clubble, must have bypassed it in "Mind Myth and Magick"?
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magicfish

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Reply with quote  #7 
Yes Paul, it is in Water's big book.
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Paul Hallas

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Reply with quote  #8 
Quote:
Originally Posted by magicfish
Yes Paul, it is in Water's big book.


I looked it up, but it's not a prediction. I probably bypassed it as I'd come across and used similar ideas before with the choice and chance theme with cards. 
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Mats Kjellstrom

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Reply with quote  #9 
Chronologue. A very strong prediction effect.

https://www.vikingmagic.com/product/chronologue/

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Nathan_himself

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Reply with quote  #10 
I've never been a huge fan of prediction effects. I use a few of them here and there, but I have never really dived too deep into the subject. My favorite mentalist David Hoy had some really interesting claims and methods on prediction effects. 


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Mind Phantom

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Reply with quote  #11 
Nathan,

Do you do more telepathy types of effects then ?

Derren Brown doesn't like prediction effects either.
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Nathan_himself

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Reply with quote  #12 
Yes, Logan!

Most if not all of my effects are based on the idea of telepathy and intuition. 

I like watching and learning prediction effects, but I'm not a huge fan of performing them. I just haven't found the right presentation to justify me using it.

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Paul Hallas

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Reply with quote  #13 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nathan_himself
Yes, Logan!

Most if not all of my effects are based on the idea of telepathy and intuition. 

I like watching and learning prediction effects, but I'm not a huge fan of performing them. I just haven't found the right presentation to justify me using it.


It all depends on the image/character you're trying to portray, Koran in the clip posted above does three predictions one after the other. When Derren shot to fame he was suggesting  a lot of what he did as NLP etc. so standard predictions wouldn't fit, he might have used the techniques but reframed them. 

Rather than seeing into the future, the 'prediction' may simply be proof you influenced someone's actions. 

Seeing into the future is not as easily acceptable by people as psychological influence is (IMHO). 

Also a lot of predictions are just a force. Card predictions are the weakest type of predictions in mentalism I think. Doesn't mean they cannot play well, but probably play better in a card magic context. Having said that though, if you get the suspension of belief pretty much anything is acceptable. Some mentalists have done the linking finger rings in their act.
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Blathermist

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Reply with quote  #14 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul Hallas


Some mentalists have done the linking finger rings in their act.


Al Koran for one. [wink]
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Intensely Magic

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Reply with quote  #15 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blathermist


Al Koran for one. [wink]


and The Amazing Kreskin

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Intensely Magic

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Reply with quote  #16 
I'v long thought that the longer you keep the "prediction" part of the trick from view, the better off you are.

I always thought "I have a prediction" is a crummy way to begin a trick. Those that defer the revelation of the prediction element, like Koran's Medallion, are far better tricks.

Actually, I really like Osterlind's walking out and taking 3 numbers and then revealing them on a card was nearly the perfect way to begin a mentalism set. Hey, the crowd went wild!

i/m

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Nathan_himself

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Reply with quote  #17 
Mr. Hallas, 

I actually use a card prediction in my close up mentalism set. I built a premise that makes sense (for me) and engages the audience. Outside of my PK touches and coin bend, the prediction is one of the most talked about effects in my repertoire. It's something I am so proud of. 

I occasionally use predictions, but I have never really fallen in love with them. I think it can come across as "too perfect" when a performer guesses the lottery numbers or headline of a newspaper. That's just my opinion, and it may change one day. 



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magicfish

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Reply with quote  #18 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Intensely Magic


and The Amazing Kreskin

And Richard Osterlind
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tomzini

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Reply with quote  #19 
My favorite is the Social Prediction by Debjit Magic. It always gets killer reactions!
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MagicTK

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Reply with quote  #20 
Of what I perform:
I learned the Aronson - Random Sample Shuffle-Bored routine years ago and love it.
I do it with 21 face down, 11 will be black, All will be odd, except the 4C.  I keep this prediction in my wallet.  At the start of the routine, I pull the prediction out and set it on the table, but don't really call much attention to it yet.  Then perform as described.


I wrote about combining this with what I call Out of This...
You would do the Out of This... part of the routine first, then jump into the prediction with Shuffle Bored.


Of other routines:
There are so many good ones out there, I will have to think a bit more about ones I've seen being performed.

Tom



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Intensely Magic

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Reply with quote  #21 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MagicTK
Of what I perform:
I learned the Aronson - Random Sample Shuffle-Bored routine years ago and love it.
I do it with 21 face down, 11 will be black, All will be odd, except the 4C.  I keep this prediction in my wallet.  At the start of the routine, I pull the prediction out and set it on the table, but don't really call much attention to it yet.  Then perform as described.


I wrote about combining this with what I call Out of This...
You would do the Out of This... part of the routine first, then jump into the prediction with Shuffle Bored.


Of other routines:
There are so many good ones out there, I will have to think a bit more about ones I've seen being performed.

Tom





I’ve always thought Paul Green’s Jeopardy wrapper on Shuffle-Bored was terrific. Thanks to the length of time Jeopardy has been on the air, it plays for a rather wide range of spectators.

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magicfish

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Reply with quote  #22 
I like Prophet Motive by John Bannon.
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magicfish

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Reply with quote  #23 
I also like this:

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Intensely Magic

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Reply with quote  #24 
As I reread this thread, it occurred to me that we’ve moved very little from the seminal Business Card Prophecy.
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Gerald Deutsch

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Reply with quote  #25 

Force Some

 

Background

 

I contributed this to Harry Lorayne’s Best Of Friends Volume III and, as Harry points out there, it was inspired by his routine “Foursome” in the Decksterity section of The Classic Collection.

 

It also appears on page 350 of Gerald Deutsch’s Perverse Magic: The First Sixteen Years”.

 

It’s presented here as an example of Perverse Magic.

 

Effect

 

1          The magician asks a spectator to touch a card but not look at it. The card is placed face down on the table.

 

2          “Now I’ve developed a sort of card system that will tell me the name of that card you selected,” says the magician as he starts to go through the deck.

 

            “Okay, this is a picture card – so that means the card is a picture card.” He shows the KH and puts it face down on the table.

 

            He goes through the deck again and comes to the 7H. “This tells me it was a red card. So a red picture card.”

 

            Once again he goes through the deck and shows the JD. “Okay, a Jack, a red Jack. “ He shows the three “locater cards’ and explains, ‘This said it was a picture card, this a red card, and since this is the JD the card is the JH.”

 

3          He turns up the card on the table and – and it’s the 4C. “I hate when this happens. A different trick is being done. Darn! Look----These are all 4s.”  He turns up the three cards he used to determine the selected card and, instead of the KH, 7H, and JD are the other 3 4s.

 

            “I quit!” he says, exasperated. 




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magicfish

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Reply with quote  #26 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Intensely Magic
As I reread this thread, it occurred to me that we’ve moved very little from the seminal Business Card Prophecy.

Could you elaborate?
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magicfish

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Reply with quote  #27 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gerald Deutsch

Force Some

 

Background

 

I contributed this to Harry Lorayne’s Best Of Friends Volume III and, as Harry points out there, it was inspired by his routine “Foursome” in the Decksterity section of The Classic Collection.

 

It also appears on page 350 of Gerald Deutsch’s Perverse Magic: The First Sixteen Years”.

 

It’s presented here as an example of Perverse Magic.

 

Effect

 

1          The magician asks a spectator to touch a card but not look at it. The card is placed face down on the table.

 

2          “Now I’ve developed a sort of card system that will tell me the name of that card you selected,” says the magician as he starts to go through the deck.

 

            “Okay, this is a picture card – so that means the card is a picture card.” He shows the KH and puts it face down on the table.

 

            He goes through the deck again and comes to the 7H. “This tells me it was a red card. So a red picture card.”

 

            Once again he goes through the deck and shows the JD. “Okay, a Jack, a red Jack. “ He shows the three “locater cards’ and explains, ‘This said it was a picture card, this a red card, and since this is the JD the card is the JH.”

 

3          He turns up the card on the table and – and it’s the 4C. “I hate when this happens. A different trick is being done. Darn! Look----These are all 4s.”  He turns up the three cards he used to determine the selected card and, instead of the KH, 7H, and JD are the other 3 4s.

 

            “I quit!” he says, exasperated. 





Fantastic!
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