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Buffalo McKinley

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Reply with quote  #1 
Hello!

I'm learning the classic pass.

Can anyone recommend some impressive card tricks that use the classic pass?

Thanks,

Buffalo
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Mind Phantom

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Reply with quote  #2 
Welcome to TMF!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You could stock a whole library with tricks on the pass..
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Harry Lorayne

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Reply with quote  #3 
     Interesting --- I haven't used a classic pass in about three or four decades!!
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Anthony Vinson

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Reply with quote  #4 
I use the Classic Pass, and I use it frequently. It's a control, not a trick. Use the Classic Pass, or any other control, to put a target card where you want it. Usually on top of second from with the Classic Pass (with top card cover). 

It can also be used as a color change, but I have never used it that way.

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Buffalo McKinley

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Reply with quote  #5 
Thanks, everyone!

Can anyone recommend a few specific card tricks I should look at that use the classic pass?

I'm new to magic.

Thanks!
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Anthony Vinson

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Reply with quote  #6 
"Pick a card, any card." That is a great place to start. 

I'm curious, where are you learning the Classic Pass? Do you do any other controls? Say, Double Undercuts? What are your interests in magic? Are you mostly into cards, or are you into more general magic?

The more you can help us understand your goals, the better able we will be to help you reach them.

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Buffalo McKinley

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Reply with quote  #7 
Anthony,

I'm into magic as a hobby.  For now, I prefer card tricks.

I learned the classic pass from a few YouTube videos.

I know the back palm, double lift and turnover pass.

Any suggestions on specific tricks to learn using any of those techniques would be greatly appreciated.

I learned the techniques I mentioned above, but not sure how to implement them.  (Yes, I know there are many, many tricks, but I could use some guidance on some of the more impressive illusions.)

Thanks!
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chris w

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Reply with quote  #8 
Probably not what you're looking for, but:

The Royal Road to Card Magic (Hugard and Braue), Expert Card Technique (Hugard and Braue), and the Card College book series by Roberto Giobbi are all good sources for learning card magic fundamentals (like the classic pass) and ways to apply them. In my opinion, you do yourself a disservice by learning a scattershot collection of disconnected tools through YouTube videos (or, for that matter, one-off trick recommendations) of variable quality. Take the time to learn a system of card handling from a credible source and your efforts will be richly rewarded.
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Anthony Vinson

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Reply with quote  #9 
Okay. Your instincts are good, and you've come to the right place if you are willing to listen and learn. 

My first suggestion is to get your hands on a copy of The Magic Book by Harry Lorayne. It is one of, if not the, best introductions to sleight of hand magic. He covers cards, cards, mental magic and more.

If you are really into cards I would then recommend the Card College series by Roberto Giobbi to begin. Later you can leap into some of Harry's more advanced books. The books I recommend will provide not only basic sleights and technique, but also tricks that use them.

The Classic Pass is considered advanced technique, and to be honest it is not currently in vogue. That doesn't mean it isn't a great sleight, or that you should not learn it, but it is among the more difficult sleights to use invisibly and consistently under fire. There are simpler and equally effective controls. Harry teaches a couple in The Magic Book and they will provide you with a solid foundation for sleight of hand card magic. Same goes for Card College - Start with Volume 1.

If you enjoy learning from YouTube videos, I cannot blame you. I will warn you that there are lots of worthless videos out there purporting to teach or reveal sleights and techniques. Most of them are crap. Check out some of the tutorial downloads on Penguin Magic, Vanishing Inc, and Theory 11. Yes, they will cost you some money, but the quality is worth the investment.

When it comes to tricks using the Classic Pass, I was serious about the good old pick a card trick. Have a card selected, remembered, and returned. Control it by means of the Classic Pass. Now what? Ah, there's the rub. It is time to reveal the selection and that is where the real magic begins. There are probably thousands of ways to do so. If you already do a good double lift, then turn over the "top" card to show it is not the selection, turn it down, remove a single, rub it on your jeans and viola. You want the reveal to be surprising, entertaining, and impossible. That's magic.

I am certain that some other members will offer advice as well. Welcome to TMF, have fun learning magic, and best of luck!

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Buffalo McKinley

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Reply with quote  #10 
Thanks, Anthony and Chris!

I have a few of the mentioned books.

I prefer videos to books, and I'm willing to pay for videos.

Sometimes I have a difficult time understanding what is being described in a book, but in a video I can see exactly what needs to be done.
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Harry Lorayne

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Reply with quote  #11 
      I've written THE MAGIC BOOK, plus quite a few others - JUST FOR YOU, Buffalo.   And, you might even want to check out my 4-volume "Best Ever" DVD set at harryloraynemagic.com . Ya' gotta' start reading and viewing the good stuff!!
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chris w

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Reply with quote  #12 
Hmm, okay. I'm glad you already have some of the books, Buffalo.

I don't have much experience with trying to build a foundation on video teachings, but I know there have been a few 'comprehensive' type video sets/series over the years. (Anyone else have a better idea of the range of options in this regard?)

My bias toward learning techniques in context would probably send me toward something like R. Paul Wilson's "Royal Road to Card Magic" videos, which I haven't viewed but would certainly trust based on Mr. Wilson's involvement.

Of course, there's also the whole universe of Harry Lorayne material. But Harry's here to tell you about that himself.
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Anthony Vinson

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Reply with quote  #13 
Giobbi also did some of the Card College material on DVD. Not sure if it's still available.

One suggestion about books: Sit down and open the book flat; use a clip or whatever. Walk slowly through the text with cards in hand. Repeat as necessary. At some point you will amaze yourself, and that is a great feeling. The process is similar to learning to read music; it takes time to build up enough notes to make music, but once you do it's magic! Patience, young Padwan. 

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Mind Phantom

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Reply with quote  #14 
It takes years of practice to perfect a classic pass. It's not something you learn in a couple of months..that way while your doing other versions of the pass, ( see above ) you can still do your card effects..my favorite card effect is Gary Ouellet's Finger On The Card...It's a "magician in trouble" type of trick and has no set-up.

Look it up..it's worth it!

Rick
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Bmat

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Reply with quote  #15 
You will hate my advice.  Stop learning methods and start learning effects.  It is pointless to learn The Pass and never need it.  Instead find a trick you like and learn that.  If that includes The Pass, a buckle count, Elmsley count what have you, then go ahead and learn them to learn that effect. 

If you want to learn just the moves, well that is great but then there is no need to learn the effects.   The problem with learning method is that when you incorporate that method into an effect it changes the method. 

For example you can learn to do the pass perfectly.  Wonderful, great for you.  But when in context of an effect how do you get into position to perform the pass from the position that was needed before. 

So your instincts are correct in finding effects that use the method you are working on.  But better to find tricks you like and learn those and all they entail.  You may find,  like Harry said...he never uses The Pass.  That does not mean you should not.  I use it all the time, but for some its just not a necessary/wanted move.  

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Gerald Deutsch

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Reply with quote  #16 
During an Ambitious Card routine use the Classic Pass to make the face up Ambitious Card VISUALLY come to the top!
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Mike Powers

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Reply with quote  #17 
I agree with Bmat that it's more productive to find a trick you want to perform and then master the needed moves.

But there is a great trick that uses a pass. It's "Passing Along the Vanishing Aces." I'm not at "command central" with my library right now. I think it's in Cardworks by Richard Kaufman. I believe it's from Jim Swain. I'll check shortly and report back.

Harry Lorayne has a great trick called "Apex Aces" which is a very similar plot but uses much simpler moves. If your Classic Pass is good enough to make it seem that the top, face up, card has disappeared, you're ready for the Swain routine. Otherwise go with Apex Aces it's excellent.

Mike
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Wayne T

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Reply with quote  #18 
Buffalo McKinley you wrote, "Thanks, Anthony and Chris!

I have a few of the mentioned books.I prefer videos to books, and I'm willing to pay for videos.

Sometimes I have a difficult time understanding what is being described in a book, but in a video I can see exactly what needs to be done."

The following are some of the best bits of advice you will find here...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Harry Lorayne
I've written THE MAGIC BOOK, plus quite a few others - JUST FOR YOU, Buffalo.   And, you might even want to check out my 4-volume "Best Ever" DVD.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Bmat
You will hate my advice.  Stop learning methods and start learning effects.  It is pointless to learn The Pass and never need it.  Instead find a trick you like and learn that.  If that includes The Pass, a buckle count, Elmsley count what have you, then go ahead and learn them to learn that effect.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Anthony Vinson
One suggestion about books: Sit down and open the book flat; use a clip or whatever. Walk slowly through the text with cards in hand. Repeat as necessary. At some point you will amaze yourself, and that is a great feeling. The process is similar to learning to read music; it takes time to build up enough notes to make music, but once you do it's magic! Patience, young Padwan.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Powers
I agree with Bmat that it's more productive to find a trick you want to perform and then master the needed moves.


Since you prefer videos I would recommend the following (in no order) which I own for getting a good foundation:

-  Royal Roads to Card Magic by Paul Wilson (5 DVDs), it is well structured and teaches slights and controls in a progressive manner and then teaches tricks that use those sleights and controls in each section

- Essential Card Magic Tool Box by Liam Montier (8 DVDs) again this teaches a good variety of basic and intermediate controls and sleights along with supporting tricks.

- Best Ever Collection By Harry Lorayne (4 DVDs), This set is jamb packed with probably 90 tricks with detailed explanations and variations. I doubt there are many better teachers on video and especially in print than Harry.

I don't own the Card College videos but if they are as good as the books there are probably worth it.

Learning is different for everyone, and there are lot's of opinions on DVDs vs books as well as learning sleights/controls or tricks first. You can find many of those opinions here.

Don't try to "eat the whale" all at once, learning magic is like a lot of other hard things, it takes practice and patience. Learn a trick, learn and understand the controls and sleights that make it work as these will come back time and time again.

I suspect once you become familiar with the basics you will become curious about more advanced stuff and also get more comfortable reading magic books and seeking out video lectures and premium videos.

Feel free to ask question here about good books and videos or techniques on perfecting specific moves. 





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Michaelblue

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Reply with quote  #19 
While you are checking out passes and learning tricks and generally having fun, check out the Herman pass. It's my favorite, anyway.
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Ratso58

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Reply with quote  #20 
Bmat nailed it.
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Harry Lorayne

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Reply with quote  #21 
Just to keep the record straight...there are about 129 items (that are listed) on the four volumes of my "Best Ever" DVD set, plus an hour or me doing some memory stuff for a lay audience. Most of the items are card effects/routines - all impromptu. Perhaps four or so non-card items - a couple of coin effects, and my broken/restored rubber band effect, Snap!

     You can see some of the items (about 34) performed, by me, by going to http://www.youtube.com/harrylorayneonvideo .
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Wayne T

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Reply with quote  #22 
Buffalo McKinley, with a 129 effects Harry's DVD set became an even better value that what I originally posted. It really is one of my favourites as it gives you a bit of everything and will wet your appetite for more. There are other good video sets but this one certainly won't disappoint.
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Harry Lorayne

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Reply with quote  #23 
    Yeah, Buffalo - you can even go to harryloraynemagic.com and order the 4-volume set - or just one of the volumes. I just checked to be sure that I have some handy to fill your order.
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jim ferguson

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Reply with quote  #24 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Powers
Harry Lorayne has a great trick called "Apex Aces" which is a very similar plot but uses much simpler moves. If your Classic Pass is good enough to make it seem that the top, face up, card has disappeared, you're ready for the Swain routine. Otherwise go with Apex Aces it's excellent.

Mike



Apex Ace is a Frank Garcia trick, it was written up by Harry. I agree its a great trick - I've been using it for about 25 years or so. I have a slightly different handling to the original or the Ose idea - I use a single selection.
I don't usually use the aces either. I use it in a routine of three tricks, its the second trick in the routine.

How are you using it Mike ?


Jim

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Mike Powers

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Reply with quote  #25 
Thanks for the correction. I had forgotten about Garcia.

I like the handling with three selections that get sandwiched at the end. Very efficient; fairly visual; solid magic.

Mike
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Buffalo McKinley

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Reply with quote  #26 

Thanks for all the great advice!

Most people in this thread recommend learning sleights for tricks that they would like to master.

I assumed it would be better to learn some of the more challenging and common sleights, so I would have the flexibility to perform a number of card tricks.

Anyway, there are so many card tricks out there. Most are impressive. Can someone recommend some of the more impressive tricks that I should look at that will help me develop my skills?

I'm fine with more challenging routines.

I had a guitar instructor who would teach songs that would advance my skills.

Does a similar approach apply to card magic?

Thanks!

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jim ferguson

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Reply with quote  #27 
That is the Jay Ose idea I mentioned above, it turns the piece into a collectors type effect. I agree with your comments, its a great trick (both versions).

I came up with the one selection handling so I could have a similar effect to the Ose handling, when I was performing one on one. I later incorporated it into the three trick routine I mentioned above (which uses 2 spectators and 2 selections).


Jim

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Buffalo McKinley

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Reply with quote  #28 
What's a "collectors type effect"?
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chris w

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Reply with quote  #29 
Collectors is a now-classic card plot in which some number of face-up cards (often Aces or another four of a kind) seem to "catch" some number of face-down selections, which appear interwoven between them at the finish.

More details/history on the plot at Conjuring Credits: http://www.conjuringcredits.com/doku.php?id=cards:collectors
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Michaelblue

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Reply with quote  #30 
Similar to guitar, yes. My guitar teacher taught me strumming patterns and songs to go with them. First song i learned was Obla di Obla da
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EVILDAN

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Reply with quote  #31 
This is the first time reading this thread and I would recommend getting Harry Lorayne's The Magic Book and begin there.

I have been into magic for over 40 years and never learned the pass. I found that Jason Ladanye lived about ten minutes away from me and decided to take a few lessons. First thing I wanted to learn was the pass. He asked why. I told him so I can have a card selected and control it to the top. He told me there are better controls and...I still haven't learned the pass.

When people like Harry Lorayne and Jason Ladanye don't think it's worth the effort to learn the pass, I listen.

Over the years I found that most people who learned to do the pass don't know what to do with it. Instead of working on the pass work on what you would do with it if you could control a selected card. Try this even... Get a marked deck. Have someone select a card. Right now you know the card they picked. Now what? What do you do with that knowledge. It's a much better exercise than learning the pass.
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Tom G

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Reply with quote  #32 
Buffalo, not to be discouraging, but Bmat hit it directly.  The pass is one of the more difficult moves to do invisibly and will take a long time before it's ready for the real world. Start a little easy and work your way up, in other words, learn to walk before running.  An effect really has to be practiced hard before performing.  So you'll have a lot of work on the easier stuff.
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Anthony Vinson

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Reply with quote  #33 
Quote:
Originally Posted by EVILDAN
When people like Harry Lorayne and Jason Ladanye don't think it's worth the effort to learn the pass, I listen.


Fair enough, Evil One, but Harry doesn't pinky count either, and I recall from previous discussions that you do. My point? Not every sleight or artifice is for everybody.

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Harry Lorayne

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Reply with quote  #34 
    Can't pinky count if my life depended on it!  Same goes for the diagonal palm shift!!
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Michaelblue

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Reply with quote  #35 
I prefer the Herman pass.

The Magic Book and Expert Card Tecnique will keep you busy for a long time. Lots of good magic.
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EVILDAN

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Reply with quote  #36 
Here's the thing, Buffalo asked for help in learning the pass which most of us know isn't easy. Next they ask for specific tricks using the pass.

That's like learning to be a dental hygienist when my goal is to be a wedding photographer. If it takes a lot of effort to learn a skill and you don't even have an application for when you're going to use it, why are you learning it in the first place?

The Magic Book addresses this and gives you a good work around for the pass.

Yes, I do pinky count. It's my get ready for a double. But I still don't do a pass. And if you do a pass and it's good, I remain in awe and I'm still jealous.
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Blathermist

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Reply with quote  #37 

I can’t recommend any tricks using the Pass, because I don’t know any! And far be it for me to try to steer anybody away from learning a utility move, here’s a few random thoughts inspired by some of the earlier comments.

 

Guitar:

Similar thing here, though my guitar tutors still thought the lute was the latest thing. Nothing wrong with the lute, but not what I wanted.

Anyway, once I’d learned three chords (1-4-5) I was on my way and I’ve never looked back. In fact when I learned a fourth chord, I could play every Doowop tune ever invented (1-6-4-5). Mixing "Johnny B. Good" with "Stand By Me" and much later "Let It Be" has been my life’s work.

Same with Magic. I’ve spent time with the Pass and I can manage it quite comfortably when nobody’s looking. Once I realised that not being able to do a Pass as well/expertly as all the books insisted wasn’t a crime, I stopped feeling inadequate and, here it comes again, I’ve never looked back.

What it boils down to is what it’s needed for. If you’ve got a key, there’s no need to break the door down. If a Double-Undercut does the job, forget the Pass. If it doesn’t, forget the job or keep looking for the Pass that suits. But in the meanwhile, have fun and don’t forget that the Pass is absolutely not essential.

Regarding the Pinkie Count. Same thing as with the pass, although less versatile. I tried it, couldn’t manage it and haven’t missed it. As a matter of interest t no one but me, every Pinkie Counter I’ve seen grimaces to hell and back and talks out of the side of their mouth when "secretly" doing the business. I haven’t seen everyone of course. Nor have I seen everybody’s Invisible Pass. Although in theory nobody should ever see anybody’s Invisible Pass.

There’s a discussion on Genii Forum at the moment on the merits and otherwise of the Pass. Interesting as ever, with by and large the usual two camps. Our old pal, Mark (performer) Lewis is heftily involved. 

 

https://forums.geniimagazine.com/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=51213 

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Anthony Vinson

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Reply with quote  #38 
Yes, and...

You are, of course, mostly correct about the OP's question. You inspired me to go back to the top and look. He actually asked about tricks using the pass. Now I don't know a one. I use the pass as a control. Period. I am aware that others use it as a color change, which I think is a mistake, but who am I to judge? I just peeked into Volume Two of Card College, where Giobbi teaches the pass, and he also provides two tricks using the move. One is a covered pass, and by covered I do mean covered! 

In addition to the Classic Pass, I have also been practicing the Tommy Tucker Pass, as taught and used by John Carey. It's a knacky thing, and I haven't yet built up the muscle memory required to try it under fire. Like Michael, I also like the Hermann Pass. 

I guess what I was saying, and still am, is that passes have their places. As for me, I have never been able to sufficiently learn a decent (read, undetectable) Side Steal despite years of trying. So there's that.

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Harry Lorayne

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Reply with quote  #39 
          The Spread Pass is a pass I used to use quite a bit. Still do, occasionally.  Seems as if most here don't know it.
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Anthony Vinson

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Reply with quote  #40 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Harry Lorayne
          The Spread Pass is a pass I used to use quite a bit. Still do, occasionally.  Seems as if most here don't know it.


Love the way it looks (doesn't look?) in the right hands, but I could never get the knack of it.

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Robin Dawes

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Reply with quote  #41 
I'm a big fan of the Spread Pass.  Shawn Farquhar teaches some detailed handling points on his "H G Trick" download.
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