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Mind Phantom

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Reply with quote  #1 
For sure in the 70's it was Uri Geller as he claimed to be the " real deal ". And then about 10 years ago you had Maj Ed Dames on nation wide talk radio making all kinds of predictions about " doom & gloom ".

At about the same time you had Jim Callahan using spirit contact to try to win a competition on national TV. , At this time you had channeler Esther Hicks who was speaking to people about the Law Of Attraction, thus starting a new fad called The Secret.

Will there be another Uri Geller or The Secret?  I don't know.
 
Will the trend use " hot readings " like the Hollywood Medium does? What do you think?

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Alan

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Reply with quote  #2 
Your examples seem to lean towards spirit mediums, those who talk to the dead. Is that what you wish to discuss when you say psychic superstar?

Or are you including mindreaders like Osterland, Cassidy, Johnson, Karmilovich, etc as psychics, for the purposes of this discussion?

I just want to be crystal clear before I step into this potentially muddy water 😉


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Mind Phantom

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Reply with quote  #3 
Yes indeed, I would add mentalists & mind readers to the list of potential psychic superstars. If I have to cast a vote for a mentalist, it would be Richard Osterlind for presentation skills and connecting with the audience.

It does seem like the meduims and channelers seem to sell a lot of books at the bookstore.

The NLP mentalist's like Derren Brown ( BTW like my avatar pic ) and his style needs more time in the minds
viewing public to take hold of, with that said, I really dig his work.

I think youtube and high technology will be doing major debunking of any outstanding performer that comes out
with a totally different hook on things. I bet I can go to youtube and find someone debunking Shin Lim and other artists.

I would add to the list of psychic superstars those that read tarot and read palms. If Ron Martin RIP were here I would say he's is a psychic Superstar, I learned a lot from his Palm Readers Notebook.

Best,

'

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EVILDAN

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Reply with quote  #4 
How are you defining superstar? Is this in the eyes of the general public or just within the ranks?

Kreskin still had some name recognition and still pulls in audiences. He was a public superstar back in his day.
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Mind Phantom

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Reply with quote  #5 
I would guess that one is popular to the masses, maybe they have written a book or two, or, they have done a network TV show, or two.

Yup, Kreskin is still very well known today. I thought a long time ago that Max Maven would break out and become known to the masses, but that never happened.

Another thing... is that, do you think Magic & Mentalism is becoming oversaturated on these talent shows and talkshows? It seems that a lot of people are doing "smash & stabs " and ***-*how. If everyone can do it,maybe it's not interesting. (just had a flashback of the TV show Magic Of The Stars ) ughhhh!

I think Maven in his younger years was full of himself and seemed to be above his audience. I like Max today, a totally different person.

Best,
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Anthony Vinson

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Reply with quote  #6 
Superstardom is vastly different today than in decades past. For one thing it is far more fleeting. For another there's the problem of saturation. With so many channels seeking - and competing for - content it is difficult to stand out for very long. For a mentalist or mental magician to stand out they would have to compete with musicians, YouTubers, actors and actresses, and talking heads. Not an easy proposition.

The last magic superstar would have to be Copperfield, and he toured incessantly to maintain his recognition and to produce an hour's worth of new material each year for television. P&T? Not nearly as universally recognizable as was Copperfield during his heyday. Mentalists? Yeah, Geller, Kreskin still top the list of recognizable talent. To a lesser extent, at least here in the U.S., there is Derren Brown. That's about it. Why? Well, Geller and Kreskin were very much products of their times. And even though Kreskin is active today it was during the groovy, new wavey 60s and 70s when he rose to stardom. (Back when long-haired hominids roamed the earth and herbal supplements the rage) Geller was a humbug artist who convinced enough people that his "powers" were real, and once debunked he more or less vanished (Pun intended.) Check out his utter failure on the Tonight Show after Carson consulted Randi for test-condition challenges. 

Maven? Bad timing. I think he was caught up in a period of transition between the wacky 80s and the more serious 90s. Had he sparked early in the 80s I think he just may have been a bigger hit with the general public. His character could be hard to understand - Was he real or just pretending? His comedy club act was brilliant - Got to see it once in Atlanta and he killed.

The next superstar? Really no way to say. It depends on a fickle public and an even more fickle entertainment industry. From where I sit there are no clearly identifiable candidates, and that's most likely the way it'll be. The next superstar, if there is one, will come out of left field (stage left?) and take us all by surprise. Won't that be nice?

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Mind Phantom

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Reply with quote  #7 
Indeed, Geller didn't even try to find the one's which did have water in them on the Johnny Carson Show. He knew he couldn't do it!!!!!!!

But that didn't stop Uri from having a sucessful career as a psychic. I think he has been busted many times over the years,but that doesn't seem to stop him.

Same thing with Esther Hicks, she channels a group of non-physical beings called Abraham. What most people don't know is that before The Secret or the Law Of Attraction came out is that Esther/Abraham in their early years were predicting "doom & gloom" to their followers. None of that came true. None of it.

Try to bring that to there attention on their Forum and you'll be banded within a short period of time.

This tells me that a psychic superstar has to have "staying  power".I WANT to believe that Esther is in contact with these beings she calls Abraham, I like the LIKE ATTRACTS LIKE message they preach today. But they have a track record of BS, it would be nuts to follow them.

Rick-
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Alan

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Reply with quote  #8 
Osterlind is a great performer and probably still gets a lot of work, but I don't think he is well known to the public and at this point in his career I don't think it's gonna happen.

Geller, Kreskin, those guys had lots of TV exposure years ago and that helped make them well known among the public. To be a star, exposure is key.

So as far as the public is concerned, I would guess Colin Cloud or Oz Pearlman are closer to becoming "stars" due to their TV exposure and in Colin's case, touring with a traveling show.

As far as spirit mediums go, I wish the public did not know any of their names. But to each their own.

Just my couple of cents.

-Alan
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Alan

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Reply with quote  #9 
I didn't mean to kill the conversation!

I would enjoy hearing other thoughts on this topic.

-Alan
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Bmat

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Reply with quote  #10 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mind Phantom
I would guess that one is popular to the masses, maybe they have written a book or two, or, they have done a network TV show, or two.

Yup, Kreskin is still very well known today. I thought a long time ago that Max Maven would break out and become known to the masses, but that never happened.

Another thing... is that, do you think Magic & Mentalism is becoming oversaturated on these talent shows and talkshows? It seems that a lot of people are doing "smash & stabs " and ***-*how. If everyone can do it,maybe it's not interesting. (just had a flashback of the TV show Magic Of The Stars ) ughhhh!

I think Maven in his younger years was full of himself and seemed to be above his audience. I like Max today, a totally different person.

Best,


I am so happy to hear that Max Maven is a different person today.  Back in the day I really liked what he had to offer.  Then I met him.  I was never so disappointed.  I found him incredibly rude and during his lecture I felt talked down to.  In his performance at a magic convention I'd say about half the audience got up and walked out of his show. 

I felt an odd sense of betrayal that  somebody I had so much respect for in print could be such a, I don't know what.   You are not the first to say that he has made drastic changes.  And I couldn't be happier.

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EVILDAN

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Reply with quote  #11 
Next superstar is tough. It's a smaller works today and information on anything is literally at your fingertips. Over the summer one of the morning news shows had "Mentalist Week." Often heard was, "So what trick are you going to show us today?"

So, what angle would this superstar take? A lot of mentalists use disclaimers, others claim they take natural abilities to make it look like they're psychic.

I think if you play it for real you set yourself up for failure because people will look to expose you as a fraud

So, I don't know who the next psychic superstar would be or what they would even be like

Can't wait to see though.
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Mind Phantom

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Reply with quote  #12 
Yes, if you don't use some kind of disclaimer you open yourself up to attack from the JREF crowd.

I also think it's not enough of a disclaimer that you say that you do this as "entertainment purposes only " or, that you  do this using " natural " means only.

The disclamer should be clear that one is using illusion to do what they are doing. Like " I use my 5 senses to create the illuison of a 6th. " would be cool.

Your doing fraud to your audience if you don't.
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EVILDAN

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Reply with quote  #13 
Mind Phantom, are you referring to mentalism or psychic readings for this disclaimer?
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Mind Phantom

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Reply with quote  #14 
I am referring to mentalsim, not psychic readings. I'll elaborate later.
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Mind Phantom

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Reply with quote  #15 
EVILDAN,

My computer is freezing up on me. I'll answer you tomorrow on a better machine.

Rick~
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Mind Phantom

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Reply with quote  #16 
Ok, I have a much different take on disclaimers than most people have. Let's take Derren Brown for example, he does a very strong Q & A. And you can see it on youtube under The Oracle Act.
,
At the beginning of his act and halfway thuogh his set and right up near the end of his Q & A, Derren is giving disclaimers during his whole show.Then he gets to his Q & A, guess what, I would say that most of the participant's believe he has some kind of "gift". Watch the Oracle Act then tell me that those people are effected emotioinally.They are.

Once I was doing my Magic of the Mind show and after the show was over, a woman grabbed me by the arm and took me into her office then she wanted to know how a real estate tran saction would turn out, she thought I was psychic even though I had givin my disclaimer at the start of the show.

This has happened to me many times in the past, I said all that to say this...

GO AHEAD AND GIVE THE DISCLAIMER, BECAUSE MOST PEOPLE WILL FORGET YOU GAVE ONE IN THE FIRST PLACE.

Derren's Oracle Act is prove of of what I am saying. If you get up there and don't give one, your commiting fraud with you audience. For example, there is a certain mentalist who goes by the name of Lior Suchard after he does his first routine on morning talk shows the hosts almost always asks " How Did You Do that? Lior always gives the TV hosts BS. He is lucky the JREF group isn't after him.


Nor, is doing a piece of mentalism for walk-around doesn't need a disclaimer, like at cocktail parties, they know your there to entertain them.

I say go ahead and give the disclaimer, if your a good performer, they'll forget all about it.

Rick-

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Mind Phantom

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Reply with quote  #17 
OH, I forgot about tarot & Palm readers, in most cases the sitter comes to me, I don't try to change the sitters belief system. I don't think lines on someone's palm add's up to fraud, the same thing with the pictures on a tarot card.

But then again what do I know..

What do you do when people thjnk your the "real deal"? I am sure that this has happened to you many times before.

Rick-
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EVILDAN

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Reply with quote  #18 
A friend and I used to perform a bizarre magick show in a local cigar shop. One night two guys came up to my friend after the show. My friend then calls me over and says these guys have a question to ask. The one big guy asks, "I was wondering if you can contact my dead mom." 

Talk about fresh fish and the amount of money I can charge this guy. I told him, what we do here is a show. We don't contact other people's dead relatives. But here's what you can do. Go sit in a dark, quiet room. Put on some music that your mom used to listen to. Then close your eyes and go to that place in the house where you and your mom spent the most time. It could be at your mom's kitchen table. Wherever. See your mom there. See her as you remember her. And talk to her. In your heart you know what she'd say to you. And who's to say that it isn't your mom talking to you through your memories and your heart. The guy looked at me, fist bumped me and said, "Thanks man." 

That being said, I don't use any disclaimers. The only time I'll use a disclaimer is if I'm doing a show with fire or if my wife and I are doing our whip act. Then the disclaimer is: Don't try this at home.

A friend of mine did a magic show back about thirty years ago. He was a kid show magician and was doing his show for a "First Night" celebration. In the show he did Mental Epic. After the show, an old Italian woman come up to him and said, "All that magic you do, that's fine. But that thing you did where you read the minds...YOU have a gift!"

So it's like the old adage, "For those that believe, no explanation is necessary. For those that don't believe, no explanation is possible." 

I don't do Q and A in my show. I know a lot of mentalists say it's a key point in their show. My show isn't structured like that. I don't want to deal with baggage. I don't want to forecast anyone's future. I'm a mind reader. 

As far as what happens when people ask if I'm real or not; it depends on what kind of mood I'm in. Sometimes I'll say it's a show and if I could really do this I'd be working for the government. Sometimes I lie through my teeth and make up a back story on how I'm able to do what I do. I have no problem lying. I do have a problem being a psychic adviser. I do read palms every now and then but it's more of a personality reading than anything. 
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Mind Phantom

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Reply with quote  #19 
We will have to agree to disagree. I have no problem with that...

Oh, BTW did you ever figure out those Scott Grossberg Mindcast cards? Maybe someone on here knows about them.

Best,
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puzznic

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Reply with quote  #20 
I wholeheartedly agree with this quote by Anthony Vinson
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Maven? Bad timing. I think he was caught up in a period of transition between the wacky 80s and the more serious 90s. Had he sparked early in the 80s I think he just may have been a bigger hit with the general public. 
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
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