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Poll Results
 
 which memorized stack is best?
 Juan Tamariz 6 60%
 Simon Aronson 3 30%
 Richard Osterlind 1 10%
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Multiple choice poll. Total votes: 10. This poll has been closed.


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Eliascaress

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Reply with quote  #1 
I'd like to invest the next month or two to mastering a memorized stack.

But Which one?
Tamariz
Aronson
Osterlind

let's imagine that ease of memorizing the deck is not an issue, which one is the best?

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Bulla

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Reply with quote  #2 
I wasn't aware that Osterlind had a memorized stack.
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EVILDAN

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Reply with quote  #3 
Osterlind Breakthrough Card System - this is more like a cyclical Si Stebbins stack that uses a formula so that you know what card comes next in the stack.
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Bulla

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Reply with quote  #4 
Yeah I'm aware of that one, but technically that isn't a memorized stack.  Does he have something else or do you think he's referring to this one?
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Harry Lorayne

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Reply with quote  #5 
   A month or two???!!!
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Eliascaress

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Reply with quote  #6 
Hi Harry, I'm sure you could master a new stack in a minute or two but I'm not as cool as you!  I'm confident that few people are.  
I also would like to use this on stage, so I would need time to master whatever routines, rehearse, audience test, etc.

Bulla, I am referring to Osterlind's Breakthrough Card System.  I'm including it here for several reasons that I didn't include in the original post.




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Eliascaress

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Reply with quote  #7 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Harry Lorayne
   A month or two???!!!


Is there a stack I'm not aware of that I should include??
I would love to know!


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Harry Lorayne

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Reply with quote  #8 
   I don't know about stacks - I never use them; never have. But Elias, it has nothing to do with being "cool." It has to do with knowing my memory-training systems.  And since literally millions of people all over the world use and have used my memory systems over decades - your "confidence" about "few people" is obviously incorrect.  There are countless people all over the world who can memorize a deck in a minute or two - know the order of the cards and/or the numerical positions of all the cards. Ya' gotta' start reading the good stuff.
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Harry Lorayne

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Reply with quote  #9 
      You might be interested in the last few posts on the thread here at the forum titled Fusillade - A Treatise on the Multiple Selection Routine.
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Steven Youell

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Reply with quote  #10 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eliascaress
I'd like to invest the next month or two to mastering a memorized stack. But Which one?

That may be a limited list. I have a particular stack I use that allows you to get into it from NDO in 30 seconds-- I actually use Si Stebbins as a Mem Deck. I know the order by rote, so no math but it has all the power of a Memorized Stack AND the Si Stebbins Order. It's called "The Hacker Stack".


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Eliascaress

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Reply with quote  #11 
I've just found the Nicola stack, which allows you to perform several gambling demonstrations that can only be done with that stack.  

I've seen Dan Harlan perform a math trick that can only be done with Si Stebbins.

Is anyone aware of any effects that can only be done with Tamariz's or Aronson's? 
Or any other stacks?

Thanks
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SpareTopChange

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Reply with quote  #12 
I'm no expert, but my first thought was: "Just memorize the Aronson stack UNLESS you can do a perfect faro.  In that case, use a stack that you can get to from NDO using faros."

Does anyone disagree?
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Harry Lorayne

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Reply with quote  #13 
   What's interesting to me is that I've yet to see an effect done with a stacked/memorized deck over which I can't get a stronger reaction from a lay audience with an effect or routine with an un-memorized/stacked deck.
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Steven Youell

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Reply with quote  #14 
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpareTopChange
Does anyone disagree?

Me. I respectfully disagree. If one stack is better (for you) than the other, then learn the move. Don't compromise because you can't learn a Sleight. I have yet to meet a student that can't learn a perfect in the hands faro within a month. I consider that time well spent in regards to this matter.


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Steven Youell

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Reply with quote  #15 
Elias-- When I was in Junior High School, I learned Harry's system for memorizing cards. I was not cool in Junior High School. I promise you. I did it in about a week. I am pretty darn sure you can beat an 8th grader in intellectual prowess! [biggrin]

I've seen all kinds of memory systems, but Harry's Systems are the most practical and the most useful in terms of learning/memorizing a wide variety of information. I would not have made it through Spanish Class if it wasn't for Harry Lorayne.

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Harry Lorayne

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Reply with quote  #16 
   So glad to have been of help, Steven.  You are among the literally millions who have contacted me over about 65 years to tell me how much my memory systems have helped them. But there are always the few - very few - who simply want to brag about their "bad memories" and refuse to read my books, apply my systems. What they don't realize is - that even if my systems don't work they MUST work!!
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Mats Kjellstrom

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Reply with quote  #17 
You can also try Joyal Stack:

http://www.joyalstack.com/memorized-deck/six-hour-memorized-deck

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Mike Powers

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Reply with quote  #18 
And the Redford stack is about to come out.

Patrick shows how to get into Stebbins from new Bicycle order. Then you can get to Redford stack from Stebbins through a series of runs of single cards. The cool thing is you can get back to Stebbins from Redford with the exact same sequence (not the reverse). It's an easy to remember number like a phone number.

There are many, things built into Redford stack too e.g. poker deals, blackjack deals etc

The book is coming soon.

Mike
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SpareTopChange

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Reply with quote  #19 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steven Youell

Me. I respectfully disagree. If one stack is better (for you) than the other, then learn the move. Don't compromise because you can't learn a Sleight. I have yet to meet a student that can't learn a perfect in the hands faro within a month. I consider that time well spent in regards to this matter.


In a month!?  Ok, then you convinced me Steve.  I didn't know that it could be acquired so fast.

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Steven Youell

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Reply with quote  #20 
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpareTopChange
In a month!?  Ok, then you convinced me Steve.  I didn't know that it could be acquired so fast.

I'll teach it to you via Skype if you like...

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Harry Lorayne

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Reply with quote  #21 
   Mats:  Why???!!  Why not just advise to go to THE BEST?  Why suggest 6 HOURS when there's ME - who teaches MINUTES? And has been for over 60 years. Just askin'.
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Mats Kjellstrom

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Reply with quote  #22 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Harry Lorayne
   Mats:  Why???!!  Why not just advise to go to THE BEST?  Why suggest 6 HOURS when there's ME - who teaches MINUTES? And has been for over 60 years. Just askin'.


That stack popped up in my mind when I read this post.
I have your books - they are wonderful, sure.

Memdeck magic is the best thing in my trickbag! So fun to perform routines with a memdeck stack.

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Harry Lorayne

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Reply with quote  #23 
    Okay, Mats.  Re: memdecks. Yes; some great stuff can be done with them. Main problem for me is that I work only with borrowed decks. But really not a large problem because as I said up above:    What's interesting to me is that I've yet to see an effect done with a stacked/memorized deck over which I can't get a stronger reaction from a lay audience with an effect or routine with an un-memorized/stacked deck.
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Mats Kjellstrom

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Reply with quote  #24 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Harry Lorayne
    Okay, Mats.  Re: memdecks. Yes; some great stuff can be done with them. Main problem for me is that I work only with borrowed decks. But really not a large problem because as I said up above:    What's interesting to me is that I've yet to see an effect done with a stacked/memorized deck over which I can't get a stronger reaction from a lay audience with an effect or routine with an un-memorized/stacked deck.


One example of a strong memdeck effect I do often, watch D. Ortiz do it flawless:


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Harry Lorayne

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Reply with quote  #25 
       Darwin is an old friend and does wonderful stuff. But again - there are - and I'm sure Darwin would agree - much stronger tricks than that. And - gotta' tell you - I could do the same effect (would take a bit more work and a bit more patter) with a borrowed shuffled deck. To the layman - there's be no difference - it'd be any card (s)he names magically caught between a pair of mates.
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Harry Lorayne

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Reply with quote  #26 
  Oh, and I'd never just tap the deck when I have the named card secretly between the mates. I'd do my Instant Sandwich Catch which I originally taught in APOCALYPSE decades ago (as a matter of fact in the very first issue: Jan. 1978) - and also in a couple of my books. Look it up.
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ianmcrawford

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Reply with quote  #27 
I chose to learn Mnemonica, largely because its what others in my circle of magical friends have learned.  As a result, I can session with them, and contribute ideas.  I have found that many stack tricks from one author can be adapted to another.  I am relatively new to stacks, and discovering that the effects can be mind blowing.

And Harry, it took me a month.  Tried several of your techniques, which helped, but I find I have to practice the stack almost every day, or I quickly start to lose the order.  So now, while swimming lengths of the pool (my daily workout) I kill the time by reciting the order in my head.  Also, when I am driving, any number on a sign on the road becomes a challenge. Highway 115 becomes 1- 4C, 15 becomes 6S, Hwy 35  becomes KH and so on.

Personally I will be satisfied to learn one stack.  Don't want too many stacks confusing my already addled mind.
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Gareth

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Reply with quote  #28 
Anyone have any experience in Doug Dyment's QuickerStack (the half hour memorised stack)? Sounds fascinating? Found here.
http://www.deceptionary.com/quickerstack.html

Gareth
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Harry Lorayne

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Reply with quote  #29 
      Interesting and coincidentally - just saw a post from Steve Cohen on Facebook - he talks about how he remembers the names of the people in his audiences and how he used my systems to remember Japanese (which he speaks fluently). Don't know how to tell you to find it - I'm a terrible computer person.

     Ian: You obviously don't know how to apply my systems. Wish you did - it'd change your life - make you a better swimmer!!
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Mats Kjellstrom

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Reply with quote  #30 
Article about Steve Cohen:

http://www.insidehook.com/new-york/book-report-chamber-magics-steve-cohen

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Harry Lorayne

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Reply with quote  #31 

        So; when I saw Steve's article on Facebook I "commented" that I hadn't seen mention of any of my magic books (only PAGE-A-MINUTE MEMORY BOOK) - so Steve responded:

Hi Harry, of COURSE your magic books have helped me (...saved me!) over the years. This article was requested by an online publication not geared for magicians, so I selected books that are more general in subject matter. -- I would have also easily added the 4 bound volumes of Apocalypse, and the entire set of Lorayne the Classic Collection books. There are three tricks in Jawdroppers that went directly into my working repertoire.

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SpareTopChange

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Reply with quote  #32 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steven Youell

I'll teach it to you via Skype if you like...

Thanks for the offer, Steven, but I got the Aronson stack etched into my brain a few months ago and I can't bear the thought of "overwriting" that with a different stack.  (That would be the main reason I'd want to learn the perfect faro.)

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Harry Lorayne

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Reply with quote  #33 
    Again, coincidentally - I received this email today:

Hello Mr. Lorayne,

 

I am a 16 year old student , simply writing to thank you.

 

 After buying an old version of your masterpiece "the magic book", I really enjoyed your style of teaching, although I already knew most sleights. Coincidentally, I also purchased the book Mnemonica, which is about deck memorisation.

 

 

Long story short, English is my second language and it wasn't really memory i had trouble with, but memory in English. Using your techniques I memorised pictures instead, which has greatly helped me improve my life. 

I looked into your memory work , and now I have not only memorised the stack, but have a memory act and have gone  from d's and c's to a's and b's again. I apparently have "ADHD", which means I "cant consciously concentrate"  and therefore my ability to observe and memorise is lower. Guess who proved the doctor wrong? This guy.

 

You changed my life. 

 

THANK YOU.

 

 

With much love and respect,

 

Denion Baci

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Harry Lorayne

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Reply with quote  #34 
   You know my cliché:  Nice to receive bouquets while one is still around to smell 'em!!!
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magicmann

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Reply with quote  #35 
I prefer the Aronson stack

Paul
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Harry Lorayne

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Reply with quote  #36 
   And I prefer a borrowed, shuffled, deck. To each his own - right?
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magicmann

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Reply with quote  #37 
Harry, after I mess up the stack I also like a shuffled deck.

Paul
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Harry Lorayne

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Reply with quote  #38 
       It's a personal problem for me - most of the people that I do card stuff for ... if I took out my own deck they'd laugh!

       Anyway, I don't want to go into it here - I've written it often enough - but in my opinion, and I haven't been proved wrong yet - when you use your own deck you lose anywhere from 10 to 20 percent of the effectiveness of the stuff you're doing. That's a given.

      And even though I can memorize a deck faster than anyone I know - numerical position of each and every card - forgive the "ego" but I'm at the age where I believe in "telling it like it is" and those who think it's ego, well that's their problem - I just don't use/need a memorized stack.

     Now - again, I've written this often enough - decades ago I'd excuse myself, after doing some card stuff with the borrowed deck, to use the bathroom and I'd casually take the deck with me - I'd memorize the shuffled deck in the bathroom in a few minutes - come out and do some memdeck stuff. As time went by I stopped bothering - just not necessary. (I could probably write volumes of impromptu, borrowed-deck, card effects/routines that are stronger than any effect that can be done with a memorized deck.)

      Somewhere - in perhaps a few places - I wrote how doing a memory feat with a shuffled deck changed my life - I did the stunt for actor Victor Jory when I was doing table magic at NYC's The Little Club a hundred years ago - and so on. At the moment I can't tell you where to find that "pivot point" of mine (which also describes the effect) - I may even have told the story here on the forum. I have to leave it to someone to find it for you - if you're interested.
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magicmann

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Reply with quote  #39 
Harry

Life would be dull if we were all the same. I rarely perform to magicians so always have to use my own cards

Paul
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Harry Lorayne

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Reply with quote  #40 
    Of course; to each his own. Always according to your circumstances.

    But - I wasn't talking about performing for magicians - I don't see where I said or intimated that. Usually when I'm performing for magicians it's at a lecture and I'm going to teach them how to do the stuff so, obviously, they'll see that what I'm teaching can be done anywhere, any time and with any deck.

     No; I'm talking about laymen...and I performed over the decades - many times - for people like Mel Brooks, Carl Reiner, Dick Cavett, Stephen Sondheim and so many more - and their friends and families - and literally tens of thousands of LAYMEN all over the world.

     So - people all over the world seem to know my name or who I am - so...if they want to see me do card magic they simply have to have a deck available - I DO NOT CARRY MY OWN DECK. So, forgive the repetition:  TO EACH HIS OWN.
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Harry Lorayne

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Reply with quote  #41 
   Oh, and Paul - thank God that we are not "all the same."

    Harry.
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alexandercrawford

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Reply with quote  #42 
I wish my lay audiences carried their own decks around, because I agree with Harry that if they did and if I borrowed a deck the effects would be very powerful.

But most of the laymen I perform to have at most a couple of decks at home and would no more consider taking a deck of cards out and about with them than they would their Monopoly board.

So, given I'll have to provide my own deck, i might as well know the order of the cards. As Harry has pointed out its really not that difficult whether you use Harry's techniques or anybody else's.
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alexandercrawford

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Reply with quote  #43 
As to which stack to use, it really doesn't matter. Most of the best memdeck effects simply use the fact that you secretly know the position of every card and the card at every position as a tool. That quality is true of all memorised decks.

However:

- Using a stack that you can get into on the fly from NDO (Tamariz, Redford, Aragon, Conover) might be good because you could start from a sealed deck and replicate a small portion of the feeling that Harry is talking about when using a borrowed deck. But have a look at the Faros, runs and displacements required and decide whether you can do them while keeping the show entertaining

- using a stack with built in gambling demos might be good if you do gambling demos (Aronson is built around these; Tamariz, Aragon and Redford have made creditable attempts at replicating similar effects)

- if some of your repertoire or desired repertoire requires a setup or setups, you could build a stack around those setups, so that not only is the deck memorised, but it also set up for one or more of your favourite routines
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AllanJ4125

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Reply with quote  #44 
This is my first post and first time on a magic forum.  Erdnase devotes several pages to a mem deck.  He uses the eight kings -- but he mentions the following:  Take thirteen cards A -  K shuffle and throw and there is your stack.  Now memorize the order (he says takes about 20 minutes) and your mem-deck just repeats this 13 card stack 4 times.  Now he used CHaSeD.  I did this when I was about 15 years old, but did not like using the repeating CHSD sequence.  I used a random order of the suits, but had the matching value and color 26 cards apart.   I think Peter Kane was the first to call this a tetradistic stack.  Anyway -- been using the same stack now 55 years.  So with most mem-deck tricks working, you now have great culling routines, and so-so easy to get into a stay-stack.
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Harry Lorayne

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Reply with quote  #45 
   And I devote tens of thousands of pages to how to make "jaws drop" with A BORROWED SHUFFLED DECK!!
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Rudy Tinoco

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Reply with quote  #46 
Quote:
Originally Posted by AllanJ4125
This is my first post and first time on a magic forum.  Erdnase devotes several pages to a mem deck.  He uses the eight kings -- but he mentions the following:  Take thirteen cards A -  K shuffle and throw and there is your stack.  Now memorize the order (he says takes about 20 minutes) and your mem-deck just repeats this 13 card stack 4 times.  Now he used CHaSeD.  I did this when I was about 15 years old, but did not like using the repeating CHSD sequence.  I used a random order of the suits, but had the matching value and color 26 cards apart.   I think Peter Kane was the first to call this a tetradistic stack.  Anyway -- been using the same stack now 55 years.  So with most mem-deck tricks working, you now have great culling routines, and so-so easy to get into a stay-stack.


Hi Allan, I’m honored that the Magician’s Forum is the first magic forum that you’ve signed up for and that we’ll hear more from you.

I’m also looking forward to your lecture and will share details with the forum this afternoon, so that they can begin to register.

Have a safe trip to Italy!

Rudy


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Rudy Tinoco

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Reply with quote  #47 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Harry Lorayne
    Again, coincidentally - I received this email today:

Hello Mr. Lorayne,

 

I am a 16 year old student , simply writing to thank you.

 

 After buying an old version of your masterpiece "the magic book", I really enjoyed your style of teaching, although I already knew most sleights. Coincidentally, I also purchased the book Mnemonica, which is about deck memorisation.

 

 

Long story short, English is my second language and it wasn't really memory i had trouble with, but memory in English. Using your techniques I memorised pictures instead, which has greatly helped me improve my life. 

I looked into your memory work , and now I have not only memorised the stack, but have a memory act and have gone  from d's and c's to a's and b's again. I apparently have "ADHD", which means I "cant consciously concentrate"  and therefore my ability to observe and memorise is lower. Guess who proved the doctor wrong? This guy.

 

You changed my life. 

 

THANK YOU.

 

 

With much love and respect,

 

Denion Baci



It made me happy to see that this young man was thoughtful enough to share such kind and encouraging words with you. I know that there are countless others (including myself) who feel the same way about you, Harry!

Rudy

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luigimar

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Reply with quote  #48 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rudy Tinoco
Hi Allan, I’m honored that the Magician’s Forum is the first magic forum that you’ve signed up for and that we’ll hear more from you. I’m also looking forward to your lecture and will share details with the forum this afternoon, so that they can begin to register. Have a safe trip to Italy! Rudy


From this post, I am guessing that  AllanJ4125 is Allan Ackerman himself!

Looking forward to his lecture!

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Mind Phantom

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Reply with quote  #49 
Ackerman's Opener is a very impressive gambling demo, and yes, it uses a memorized deck !

Welcome Allan to TMF!
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AllanJ4125

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Reply with quote  #50 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Harry Lorayne
   And I devote tens of thousands of pages to how to make "jaws drop" with A BORROWED SHUFFLED DECK!!


And we appreciate it Harry

 

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