Sign up Latest Topics Chat
 
 
 


Reply
  Author   Comment  
EndersGame

Avatar / Picture

Inner Circle
Registered:
Posts: 346
Reply with quote  #1 

Do you ever use the Goldin Force, and how effective do you think it is?

If you're not familiar with it, you'll find it covered in a video here, although there it's called the Topsy Turvy Force.

It's credited to Horace Goldin (1873–1939), and is taught by Roberto Giobbi in Card College 1, and also covered in Daryl's Encyclopedia of Card Sleights Vol 4.

I don't think I'd use it more than once for the same spectator, because it does require some boldness and confidence, and seems to work best when you need a casual force.

__________________
[nTzBCzo]
BoardGameGeek reviewer EndersGame - click here to see all my pictorial reviews:  Playing Card Reviews  Magic Reviews  Board Game Reviews 
0
Robin Dawes

Avatar / Picture

Honored Member
Registered:
Posts: 1,658
Reply with quote  #2 
I've never used it.

I wonder if the deceptiveness would be increased by bevelling both packets slightly to the left as you extend the right hand.
0
Anthony Vinson

Avatar / Picture

Honored Member
Registered:
Posts: 3,178
Reply with quote  #3 
I've only ever seen it used poorly, so it never appealed to me. Bannon's Christ-Cross Force accomplishes the same end - forcing the top card - with a much more natural action.

Av 
0
Mike Powers

Avatar / Picture

Honored Member
Registered:
Posts: 2,345
Reply with quote  #4 
Interesting idea Robin. I think you're onto something. I'd push the concept you're suggesting even further into a reverse spread in both hands, ultimately ending with the top card of the right hand spread outjogged and held below the reverse spread cards in the left hand. The image really implies that the card came from the center of the deck. I suspect that this idea has already been thought of. Might be interesting to try it and attempt to assess whether or not it improves the feeling that the force card was taken from the cut point.

Ultimately, though, I think the procedure is pretty weird looking and, as a result, can easily make specs wonder if "something is going on."

Mike
0
Mbreggar

Avatar / Picture

Inner Circle
Registered:
Posts: 710
Reply with quote  #5 
I have used it. Twice. It was that something that people referred to when then say, “I don’t know how you did it, but you did something funny. Why didn’t you just let me pick a card?”

It’s a workable tool, however, it is very difficult to figure out a way to incorporate its “unusualness” into a presentation. I tried it because it was cool looking and seemed to be fair, but it really lessened the impact of the trick it started.

Mike P’s last sentence is spot on .. EXACTLY what I experienced. I subsequently took those neurons used to learn and store the information and parked them into the dark, old magic drawer.


0
Bulla

Inner Circle
Registered:
Posts: 226
Reply with quote  #6 
I'm not sure what the proper credits are for this but I first saw this subtlety of flipping the other packet from Simon Lovell. 
0
Mike Powers

Avatar / Picture

Honored Member
Registered:
Posts: 2,345
Reply with quote  #7 
Thanks for the "real world" perspective Mike.

A riffle force is much more natural. "Say stop at some point... here? Ok remember your card..." Instead of "Say stop at some point... let me flip half the deck over for no reason and the deal a card from who the hell knows where that came from..."

I can't see why I'd ever use the Goldin Force. If specs don't verbalize an objection to the fairness of the procedure, they're thinking it.


Mike
0
EndersGame

Avatar / Picture

Inner Circle
Registered:
Posts: 346
Reply with quote  #8 
I like the suggestion that I came across elsewhere, namely that the Goldin Force can be a good way for casually returning a card to the deck, to place it besides a key card located at the top or bottom of the deck.
__________________
[nTzBCzo]
BoardGameGeek reviewer EndersGame - click here to see all my pictorial reviews:  Playing Card Reviews  Magic Reviews  Board Game Reviews 
0
Paco Nagata

Avatar / Picture

Inner Circle
Registered:
Posts: 260
Reply with quote  #9 
I didn't know about this movement!
At first it looked like to me not very deceptive, but then I thought that it was just because I'm not "lay." So I tried the movement along with a "forced card" trick for my wife using the Robin Dawes' bevelling idea, and I deceived her (in the good sense!). Well, curiously, the following day, I did another "forced card" trick for my wife with the same movement, but WITHOUT the Robin's idea (not bevelling the both piles) and she catched me!

So, Robin, you hit on it!!

__________________
"The Passion of an Amateur Card Magician" https://bit.ly/2lXdO2O
"La pasion de un cartómago aficionado" https://bit.ly/2kkjpjn
Latest erratum corrections and improvements update, 16/06/2020
0
EndersGame

Avatar / Picture

Inner Circle
Registered:
Posts: 346
Reply with quote  #10 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paco Nagata
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robin Dawes
I wonder if the deceptiveness would be increased by bevelling both packets slightly to the left as you extend the right hand.

I tried the movement along with a "forced card" trick for my wife using the Robin Dawes' bevelling idea, and I deceived her (in the good sense!). Well, curiously, the following day, I did another "forced card" trick for my wife with the same movement, but WITHOUT the Robin's idea (not bevelling the both piles) and she catched me! So, Robin, you hit on it!!

Could you clarify what is meant precisely with "bevelling both packets to the left"?

For those who have tried this force, do you get the spectator to take the force card (holding out the packets separately, the packet with the force card being held lower)?  Or do you slide the force card to the table and immediately bring the packets together into a single deck?

__________________
[nTzBCzo]
BoardGameGeek reviewer EndersGame - click here to see all my pictorial reviews:  Playing Card Reviews  Magic Reviews  Board Game Reviews 
0
Paco Nagata

Avatar / Picture

Inner Circle
Registered:
Posts: 260
Reply with quote  #11 
It is about to reverse the spread of both piles to make it looks like the card was taken from the middle.
__________________
"The Passion of an Amateur Card Magician" https://bit.ly/2lXdO2O
"La pasion de un cartómago aficionado" https://bit.ly/2kkjpjn
Latest erratum corrections and improvements update, 16/06/2020
0
RayJ

Avatar / Picture

Honored Member
Registered:
Posts: 3,140
Reply with quote  #12 
It has been interesting to read through this thread as it has built.  To me what is shows is how you can take a move, one that is imperfect, and massage it until it becomes something else.  Even if in the end you don't use it, there was a lot to be learned by going through the process.  Things that can be used to help improve other sleights that you do like.
0
lopabrc

Member
Registered:
Posts: 21
Reply with quote  #13 
I never use this force as described (and probably never will), but  there is an effect on Frank Garcia "Millon dollar card secrets" that might be of interest to those who own the book and that I had forgotten complitly about it till I saw this post.
0
Paco Nagata

Avatar / Picture

Inner Circle
Registered:
Posts: 260
Reply with quote  #14 
"The Reverse Spread" technique is very deceptive and easy to carry out. Only it needs a bit of misdirection (like everything).

https://www.conjuringcredits.com/doku.php?id=cards:reverse_spread

I have been always using this technique to get a selected card next to a key card.

Robin's ideas was about using this technique to improve the deceptiveness of the Goldin Force.

That technique has a lot to do with the popular Bill Simon's "Business Card Prophecy Move" as well.

__________________
"The Passion of an Amateur Card Magician" https://bit.ly/2lXdO2O
"La pasion de un cartómago aficionado" https://bit.ly/2kkjpjn
Latest erratum corrections and improvements update, 16/06/2020
0
Robin Dawes

Avatar / Picture

Honored Member
Registered:
Posts: 1,658
Reply with quote  #15 
Quote:
Originally Posted by EndersGame


Could you clarify what is meant precisely with "bevelling both packets to the left"?

...


"Putting a bevel in the deck" means pressing on one side so that the cards spread slightly in the opposite direction.  For example if the deck is your left hand in dealing position you can press on the right side with your left fingers and spread the cards very slightly to the left.

Many magicians will bevel the deck slightly towards themselves in preparation for a DL that simulates the action of picking up the top card with the right thumb at the back and the right fingers at the front.  The bevel assists the right thumb in picking up exactly 2 cards.
0
Michael b

Inner Circle
Registered:
Posts: 263
Reply with quote  #16 
Just my Two Cents on the subject.

Unlisted Video:

http://



Michael b
0
Anthony Vinson

Avatar / Picture

Honored Member
Registered:
Posts: 3,178
Reply with quote  #17 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael b
Just my Two Cents on the subject.

Unlisted Video:

http://



Michael b


I still think the mechanics of the force itself look a bit too busy. There are less cozy ways to accomplish the same end. That said, your thinking on the force is brilliant and made me think.

Thanks for sharing,

Av
0
Michael b

Inner Circle
Registered:
Posts: 263
Reply with quote  #18 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anthony Vinson


I still think the mechanics of the force itself look a bit too busy. There are less cozy ways to accomplish the same end. That said, your thinking on the force is brilliant and made me think.

Thanks for sharing,

Av


I agree with you 100% Anthony........there are way to many sleights in magic that are more CONFUSING to the eye than magically direct to the brain.

Seems like we magicians always want to reinvent the wheel when a better one already exists.

We just can't resist putting lipstick on a ......
download.jpg 

LOL

Michael b





0
EndersGame

Avatar / Picture

Inner Circle
Registered:
Posts: 346
Reply with quote  #19 
Thanks for sharing your thoughts and that video, Michael.  I enjoyed watching your take on the Goldin Force.  

I noticed that your emphasize flashing the bottom card of the deck, which is different from the way I've been doing it, and somehow that does seem to make things more deceptive.  

But like Anthony points out, I still find the moves of this force overly busy, and I think spectators will have a sense that some deception has occurred, even if they can't pinpoint what it was.

__________________
[nTzBCzo]
BoardGameGeek reviewer EndersGame - click here to see all my pictorial reviews:  Playing Card Reviews  Magic Reviews  Board Game Reviews 
0
Previous Topic | Next Topic
Print
Reply

Quick Navigation:

Easily create a Forum Website with Website Toolbox.