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Sibex

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Reply with quote  #1 
Hi,

I know 'best' is subjective so what I'm after is your opinions, please.
I'm after a really good quality CSB set but don't want to pay the earth.
What are your suggestions, please.
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Anthony Vinson

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Reply with quote  #2 
I am on my second Johnson Products set. The first set's coins finally wore down to the point that they didn't match the faces of the gaffs, making me uncomfortable about using them. That took twenty or so years. I recommend the set and Johnson Products in general.

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Sibex

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Reply with quote  #3 
Thanks, Anthony. Being in the UK they are hard to get hold of but I'll look around.
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RayJ

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Reply with quote  #4 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sibex
Thanks, Anthony. Being in the UK they are hard to get hold of but I'll look around.


If I didn't already own a couple sets I'd head straight for these. Watch the trailer. These are mechanically different and can achieve some very cool effects.

https://www.vanishingincmagic.com/money-magic/carpenter-coins/
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Tom G

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Reply with quote  #5 
A lot of people are complaining about the quality of those Carpenter Coin sets.
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RayJ

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Reply with quote  #6 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom G
A lot of people are complaining about the quality of those Carpenter Coin sets.
k

Hadn't heard, thanks for the heads-up. Maybe a side effect of increasing production to meet demand. It is one thing to make a prop then learn you have to churn out a thousand of 'em.
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Bob Farmer

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Reply with quote  #7 
The initial phases of the routine are similar to my routine, "Rate of Exchange," Apocalypse, Vol. 3, #10, October, 1980, pp. 404-406. The routine starts with three ungaffed coins, then switches in the gaffs as part of a 2-in-the-hand, 1 in the pocket routine. Then the usual CSB routine is performed and for the finale the coins vanish. A copy is attached.

I've since devised a much superior routine that can be done standing, without a table and you start and end completely clean.

 
Attached Files
pdf Rate of Exchange-Bob Farmer-Apocalypse 1980.pdf (63.32 KB, 39 views)

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jim ferguson

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Reply with quote  #8 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Farmer
The initial phases of the routine are similar to my routine, "Rate of Exchange," Apocalypse, Vol. 3, #10, October, 1980, pp. 404-406. The routine starts with three ungaffed coins, then switches in the gaffs as part of a 2-in-the-hand, 1 in the pocket routine. Then the usual CSB routine is performed and for the finale the coins vanish. A copy is attached.

I've since devised a much superior routine that can be done standing, without a table and you start and end completely clean.



That's interesting Bob. I too had a routine which started with the three regular coins, and switched in the gaff during a two in the hand bit. At the end only two of the coins vanished - the chinese and Mexican coin. The half dollar was apparently going to vanish as well - but transformed into the Chinese coin, then the Mexican coin was plucked from the air, and the half was found in the spectators pocket. My routine was written up on the talkmagic site maybe ten years ago.

I had another bit where the spectator actually heard the coins changing places - this part only worked for quieter environments though.

I haven't done the trick in years - I lost the Mexican coin from my set. I keep meaning to replace it, but still haven't gotten around to it.

I shall download your routine when I have a better signal.



Jim
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Intensely Magic

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Reply with quote  #9 
I'll second the Carpenter link. My set is fine and I've always found VI great to work with if there is an issue.

$ for $ Mark Mason's set for $120, made with a Walking Liberty half, is a steal. I believe they are made by Bob Swadling.

Schoolcraft makes a wonderful set, but he is REAL PROUD of them. Also, prepare to wait.....and wait.

Lassen sets were my preference, but he doesn't make them any more.

Reports on Roy Kuppers sets are all over the place.

I hope this helps.


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Satan got you by the hand
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Intensely Magic

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Reply with quote  #10 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Farmer
The initial phases of the routine are similar to my routine, "Rate of Exchange," Apocalypse, Vol. 3, #10, October, 1980, pp. 404-406. The routine starts with three ungaffed coins, then switches in the gaffs as part of a 2-in-the-hand, 1 in the pocket routine. Then the usual CSB routine is performed and for the finale the coins vanish. A copy is attached.

I've since devised a much superior routine that can be done standing, without a table and you start and end completely clean.


Bob,

Are you referring to the routine that comes with the Carpenter coins?

Also, Is the standup routine available?

Thanks!

__________________

Satan got you by the hand
and he's singing in your ear,
leading you on a merry dance
in a ballroom filled with fear.



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Tom G

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Reply with quote  #11 
The Carpenter set comes with one more gaff.  At $75  then subtract the magic markup and then profits for creator and distributor, there isn't much left for the coin work. While some raved about their sets, some posted pics of unusable sets.  So no apparent QA.  Very mixed reviews on coin effects from VI.  Todd now makes what he wants, when he wants.  No special orders. Most of the gaffs I have are from Todd.  You'll spend about 350 from Todd, Schoolcraft prices seem to be higher than Todd.  Mason and Swadling make very good gaffs, but like someone mentioned Bob is getting up there no telling how long he'll keep making gaffs.  Two out of two order from Roy years ago was it for me, no more.  I've also seen very mixed reviews on Roy's quality. 
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Intensely Magic

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Reply with quote  #12 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom G
The Carpenter set comes with one more gaff.  At $75  then subtract the magic markup and then profits for creator and distributor, there isn't much left for the coin work. While some raved about their sets, some posted pics of unusable sets.  So no apparent QA.  Very mixed reviews on coin effects from VI.  Todd now makes what he wants, when he wants.  No special orders. Most of the gaffs I have are from Todd.  You'll spend about 350 from Todd, Schoolcraft prices seem to be higher than Todd.  Mason and Swadling make very good gaffs, but like someone mentioned Bob is getting up there no telling how long he'll keep making gaffs.  Two out of two order from Roy years ago was it for me, no more.  I've also seen very mixed reviews on Roy's quality. 


Not defending VI, mine works fine. YMMV as they say.

Anyway, you can do this routine with the Carpenter set. While not as smooth as my Schoolcraft set, it's OK and I don't sweat as much when I carry them. I still prefer Lassen, but Todd promised me several times over a 15 month period and then he quit custom work.





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Satan got you by the hand
and he's singing in your ear,
leading you on a merry dance
in a ballroom filled with fear.



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RayJ

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Reply with quote  #13 
Another obvious decision to make is how badly do you want the coins to match your "working coins".  In other words, do you typically use only silver halves?  Do you want your CSB to match?

A Swadling-made CSB with a Walking Liberty isn't bad at $120.00.  But that certainly isn't necessary, especially if you don't use those coins for your other work.

Johnson does make some sets with the old silver coins.  It is possible that they might make a set for you with a 1964 Kennedy, or a Walking Liberty, Franklin or whatever.  I have no idea what they offer at this time, but it might be worth a check.
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Sibex

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Reply with quote  #14 
Thanks all. Great advice and comments. Lots to think about.
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Bob Farmer

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Reply with quote  #15 
I haven't published my new routine and yes I was referring to the Carpenter routine. I have a Schoolcraft set in dollar size--I think the dollar size set looks better and is easier to see. It uses a Morgan silver dollar, a faux Chinese coin and a 50 rupee Indian coin. I introduce the coins one by one with this patter:

"This is a 1921 Morgan Silver dollar--back in the 1920s, during prohibition, this was good for one free taste of bootleg Scotch.

"This is a 1932 Shanghai cash. Back in China in the 1930s, this was good for one hit of opium in an opium den.

"And this is a 1995 50 rupee piece from India. In the 1990s, this was good for 15 minutes of technical support from Microsoft."

I came up with the first two lines but Mike Close closed the deal with the third line.


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StevePR104

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Reply with quote  #16 
I'm surprised nobody's mentioned Roy Kueppers.  Roy's moved to the States from Canada, and I think his work is top notch.  His website is http://www.roykueppers.com.

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jim ferguson

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Reply with quote  #17 
Quote:
Originally Posted by StevePR104
I'm surprised nobody's mentioned Roy Kueppers.



Intensely Magic, and Tom G, both mentioned Roy.


Jim

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StevePR104

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Reply with quote  #18 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jim ferguson



Intensely Magic, and Tom G, both mentioned Roy.


Jim



And so they did.  [smile]
 
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markd2990

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Reply with quote  #19 
Quote:
"And this is a 1995 50 rupee piece from India. In the 1990s, this was good for 15 minutes of technical support from Microsoft."


Hahahahaha . . . Love it!!! [crazy]
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Alan Smithee

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Reply with quote  #20 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Farmer

"And this is a 1995 50 rupee piece from India. In the 1990s, this was good for 15 minutes of technical support from Microsoft."



Have microsoft ever been that generous?
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Jim McGowan

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Reply with quote  #21 
TC Ryder sells a beautiful custom set by Johnson with a WL half, West African 10 cent coin, and a Peru Un de Sol (Llama) coin. I purchased one a few years ago and it is still the best one I own.

Jim McGowan

Oops! Forgot the link:
http://realcoinmagic.com/coinmagic.htm
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Tom G

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Reply with quote  #22 
Bob will  your new routine be published?

Jim, for many years Johnson was the gold standard, and they still make very nice stuff.  I've tried to get a basic item made custom and keep getting put off, so I went  elsewhere.  It's good that TC can get them. 
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RayJ

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Reply with quote  #23 
For those that might not know, Johnson Products is actually a high-tech aerospace company.  They fabricate extremely intricate, precise components, many of which have found their way into space.  The coin effects they offer supplements their business, but aerospace is their bread-and-butter.  It doesn't surprise me that they wouldn't jump on the opportunity to do a custom order.  It might also be a timing thing, if they're busy making their core products, they have little interest in doing "one-offs".  The best way to have a chance might be to go through one of their biggest dealers.  At least you might stand a chance that way.  Just a thought.
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Bob Farmer

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Reply with quote  #24 
The problem with Johnson products is some of the stuff is badly designed and not deceptive. For example, their Chinatown coins look ridiculous. It's a thick coin but the "hole" is not deep. I had Roy Kueppers make me some amazing Chinatown coins and because he's a magician he knows how to design something that looks deceptive. With my set you can place the gaff beside the real Chinese coin and you can't tell the difference. I suspect, Johnson does not have that magical point of view.
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RayJ

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Reply with quote  #25 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Farmer
The problem with Johnson products is some of the stuff is badly designed and not deceptive. For example, their Chinatown coins look ridiculous. It's a thick coin but the "hole" is not deep. I had Roy Kueppers make me some amazing Chinatown coins and because he's a magician he knows how to design something that looks deceptive. With my set you can place the gaff beside the real Chinese coin and you can't tell the difference. I suspect, Johnson does not have that magical point of view.


Bob, you are right.  Also, the set I bought over 40 years ago has most of the brass worn off of the brass gaff.  Apparently the way they made it was to shave down a half dollar, polish it and then brass plate it.  That helped in their production, but it sacrifices long-term quality.
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Mike Powers

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Reply with quote  #26 

TC Ryder sells a beautiful custom set by Johnson with a WL half, West African 10 cent coin, and a Peru Un de Sol (Llama) coin. I purchased one a few years ago and it is still the best one I own.



Hi Jim. Great to see you here!

I have that exact set from Todd Lassen. Great contrast among the three coins.

Mike
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StevePR104

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Reply with quote  #27 
 
FWIW, Pressley Guitar had a patent on the gaff, issued by the PTO in 1964.  To this day, he refers to the effect as the "CBS coins."  
 
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RayJ

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Reply with quote  #28 
Quote:
Originally Posted by StevePR104
 
FWIW, Pressley Guitar had a patent on the gaff, issued by the PTO in 1964.  To this day, he refers to the effect as the "CBS coins."  
 


Just to add to the discussion regarding history, it was Connie Hayden who originally made an effect with two copper coins (English Penny and Mexican 20 Centavo) and a half dollar.

Some believe this is still the best way to go as it is slightly easier for the audience to follow.  You tell them the 2 copper coins are here and the silver coin there.  When you introduce the Chinese, it is harder to describe the situation.  Are they foreign coins?  Is that even OK to say these days?  

Pressley Guitar, who was a master craftsman, came up with the idea of using the Chinese coin in place of the English Penny.  

Oh how I wish he were still making magical apparatus.  I got the chance to meet him and he was a super guy, very eager to show his creations and deservedly quite proud of them.

I wish I had bought one of his wands back then, along with one of his leather dice cups.

He made a seamless dice cup which has not been improved upon to this day.

Unfortunately I had just enough money to be able to attend the convention and nothing left over for props.  
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Bob Farmer

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Reply with quote  #29 
Using three different coins is not confusing if you do it right. When the coins transpose, do not open both hands at the same time: the audience doesn't know where to look. The sequence is: silver coin on right hand. Close right hand. Open left hand showing it's now there. Open right hand to show the other two coins.

I think it's right to say the Two Copper, One Silver version is clearer but we do love the cleverness of the other version.
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RayJ

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Reply with quote  #30 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Farmer
Using three different coins is not confusing if you do it right. When the coins transpose, do not open both hands at the same time: the audience doesn't know where to look. The sequence is: silver coin on right hand. Close right hand. Open left hand showing it's now there. Open right hand to show the other two coins.

I think it's right to say the Two Copper, One Silver version is clearer but we do love the cleverness of the other version.


Yes we do!
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Efendi

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Reply with quote  #31 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sibex
I'm after a really good quality CSB set but don't want to pay the earth.


If you haven't got one, I can suggest getting Bluether Magic's CSB Set.

It's a replica, but it gets the jobs done. Really affordable price with good quality.

[image] 

Contact them in FB https://www.facebook.com/Bluethermagic/

I used this set in couple of the routine that I did.


edit: Just notice Joe Berman is here, you can contact him and message him as well. I believe he is with Bluether Magic.

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Michael Rubinstein

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Reply with quote  #32 
Hi everyone! Here is one of my signature routines from my book, Rubinstein Coin Magic, called Copper Silver Brass, with ungimmicked coins. I carry this with me all the time. Many magicians have had a lot of fun with this routine, and changed the handling to make it their own (which is great, because that is exactly what you should do with a routine that you learn from a book.- find a way to inject yourself into the routine! This is my personal handling and patter I use now, so magicians can see how I now perform it. By the way, I am getting a new shipment of books in a couple of weeks that will be available for signing, and come with a special FREE GIFT (while supplies last). If interested, shoot me an email at rubinsteindvm@aol.com
Enjoy!
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