Sign up Latest Topics Chat
 
 
 


Reply
  Author   Comment  
Buffalo McKinley

Inner Circle
Registered:
Posts: 222
Reply with quote  #1 
Hello,

I searched the forum for double turnover techniques and read the threads.

I understand many magicians have different/strong opinions about what is best.

I'm looking for a tutorial on a smooth, natural turnover technique, preferably WITHOUT some form of a get-ready.

I've been using a very effective technique where I use the corner of my left thumbnail to walk down two or three cards (depending on whether I need a double or triple lift).  This technique works well and it's really hard to screw up, but I do need to push over the top four or five cards a little to make it work.

I'd really like to invest some time in a more natural technique.

Ron Bauer's Two Card Turnover Technique was recommended, but I couldn't find a video (I learn better from videos instead of books/articles).

Please let me know if there are any tutorials you recommend.

Thanks!

-Buffalo
0
jim ferguson

Inner Circle
Registered:
Posts: 285
Reply with quote  #2 
I use my own, so can't really recommend any.

I'd like to ask though - why no get ready ? What are your thoughts/feelings on a get ready for the double ?

Personally, I don't think a get ready is a problem - it tends to be the actual getting into the get ready that seems to often be the problem. If done poorly, it can telegraph exactly what we're doing. But if done with some thought, it can be totally invisible.

What are your thoughts ?



Jim


0
RayJ

Avatar / Picture

Honored Member
Registered:
Posts: 3,414
Reply with quote  #3 
I almost always use a 'Strike Double Turnover' technique.  I learned it from 'The Book of John' by John F. Mendoza way back in the 80s.  It takes a little while to get the touch required to reliably lift two cards each time, but once you develop the knack it is nearly 100% surefire.

Personally, I never cared for get-readies.  So this technique appealed to me.  I use my second finger to contact the long edge of the pack and there is a slight bevel to the pack to assist in separating them.

After the cards are levered up, I buckle and snap them.  That isn't everyone's cup of tea, but it works well for me.

I think Raphael Benatar spent some time on turnovers in his recent TMF Live lecture.  Did you see his lecture?  If not, shoot Rudy some bucks and he will give you a copy.  Check with him for price and availability.

Edit:  'The Complete Works of Derek Dingle' has another method, where you contact the cards with your ring finger.  It looks different from the way I do it in that the approaching hand is more-or-less palm down when it contacts the deck.
0
Mike Powers

Avatar / Picture

Honored Member
Registered:
Posts: 2,402
Reply with quote  #4 
I'm with RayJ. My go to DL is Marlo's "Hit" double lift which is a no-get ready strike style DL. To me it looks very natural, especially since there's no get ready. Gracie Morgan has spent some time explaining the Ron Bauer technique. I think there's a section in her recent lecture on this. If you can master the two card push off, there's no get ready with the Bauer method. The Martin Nash DL uses a similar starting point i.e. pushing off a nearly squared double that pivots at its inner left corner. I sometimes use the Nash and Bauer techniques but I more often use Marlo's Hit DL.

Mike
0
Mind Phantom

Avatar / Picture

Honored Member
Registered:
Posts: 1,388
Reply with quote  #5 
What I do is turn the double card half-way onto the top of the pack and then two things happen at once;

- I square up the double with the rest of the deck
- I show the double as one card
- There is somewhat of a "get-ready" here..and just flip that double over on the deck

And there you have it. I do it all the time like that.

Hope the above helps.

Rick-

__________________
Self Concept Is Destiny...
0
marv long

Avatar / Picture

Inner Circle
Registered:
Posts: 52
Reply with quote  #6 
Do recognize there is no "best double turn over" (Milt Kort would be so proud of this he hated the term double lift) If there was "the one"... pretty much everyone would be using it.
There are several considerations - natural (and more important natural to your way of working)
Lack of perceived tension - a dead give-a-way
Works in the context of the routine

Things change - I usually use a strike as mentioned by others but here on really humid Florida days or when I used to work tables a get ready at the rear and a diagonal spin were required to avoid a multiplying card effect.

I love Ron's turnover and I think it looks more like the way a layperson turns over a card but I never could do it consistently so I guess the final answer might be one that you can perform well.
Cheers
0
Paco Nagata

Avatar / Picture

Inner Circle
Registered:
Posts: 323
Reply with quote  #7 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Buffalo McKinley
I'm looking for a tutorial on a smooth, natural turnover technique, preferably WITHOUT some form of a get-ready

I would recommend you to have a look to the Session Room - Sleights, a thread called "Make Mine A Double (lift) with a double function" by Michael Boden.
Maybe you'll find what you are looking for (and many card magicians) ; - )

__________________
"The Passion of an Amateur Card Magician" https://bit.ly/2lXdO2O
"La pasion de un cartómago aficionado" https://bit.ly/2kkjpjn
Latest erratum corrections and improvements update, 16/06/2020
0
Gracie Morgan

Avatar / Picture

Honored Member
Registered:
Posts: 33
Reply with quote  #8 
Quote:
Originally Posted by marv long
I love Ron's turnover and I think it looks more like the way a layperson turns over a card but I never could do it consistently... 

If I can do it, you can do it.

Here's a PDF on the technique along with THE ORIGINAL ILLUSTRATIONS for those who would like to learn it!

Ron had several different returns and you can make out Charlie Miller's favorite from the illustrations.

 
Attached Files
pdf Ron Bauer Technique.pdf (538.04 KB, 25 views)

0
Intensely Magic

Avatar / Picture

Inner Circle
Registered:
Posts: 552
Reply with quote  #9 
I've become a huge fan of the JB Double Lift. This is John Bannon's modification and simplification of the Stuart Gordon Double Lift - A beautiful move, but so difficult - at least for me. I know John's description is in Dealing With It #2 and maybe other places.

FWIW, the person I consider the greatest living magician said he was never confident enough to rely on any double lift without a get ready. At least that made me feel better. Obviously, there are many that disagree.

__________________
A Crappy Trick with a great presentation is still a Crappy Trick.

0
Zero

Avatar / Picture

Member
Registered:
Posts: 33
Reply with quote  #10 
Quote:

"All moves have been invented for a purpose. if you care enough and work on the move you need you will have the best version of that move for you and your purpose. The work invested in that one move will be greater than time invested in learning all the moves out there for the same goal" - Rafael Benatar, Scripting magic
 
0
Jack Deschain

Inner Circle
Registered:
Posts: 52
Reply with quote  #11 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gracie Morgan

If I can do it, you can do it.

Here's a PDF on the technique along with THE ORIGINAL ILLUSTRATIONS for those who would like to learn it!

Ron had several different returns and you can make out Charlie Miller's favorite from the illustrations.


That's very generous of you! 

I keep hearing great things about this but hadn't committed to looking into it yet. My internal dialog was, "Do I REALLY need another double lift?" (If you recommend it then.. yes)

Honestly, I usually just pinky count and off to the races or just use crude misdirection with a push/pull depending on the situation. 

A laugh for you:

I learned your technique for buffing the deck quite a few years ago when you gave it away. I tried to use many different files and ruined many decks. I was young and stubborn and thought the brand can't make THAT much of a difference. I was wrong. Fast forward to many years later...

Last time I passed a Sally's I did a U-turn and bought 5 of the files just to have plenty of extras. The nice young lady was like, "I think these are the ones your wife wants." I'm single. Never mentioned a wife or significant other. "Yea sure, these look like the ones. Have a great day!"

Magicians shop in unexpected places and buy unexpected things I guess. But we already know that haha.

Thanks again and all the best to you,
-JD-

0
Paco Nagata

Avatar / Picture

Inner Circle
Registered:
Posts: 323
Reply with quote  #12 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gracie Morgan

If I can do it, you can do it.

Here's a PDF on the technique along with THE ORIGINAL ILLUSTRATIONS for those who would like to learn it!

Ron had several different returns and you can make out Charlie Miller's favorite from the illustrations.

Thank you very much for this gift!
I appreciate it a lot!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zero
Quote:

"All moves have been invented for a purpose. if you care enough and work on the move you need you will have the best version of that move for you and your purpose. The work invested in that one move will be greater than time invested in learning all the moves out there for the same goal" - Rafael Benatar, Scripting magic.

Absolutely WISE words by a wise magician!
And very proper for this thread, Zero!
I couldn't agree more with this Benatar statement!

I have been most of my amateur card magic life using the "Professor's double turn over" along with Derek Dingle's.
Actually most of the card magic techniques I've always used are from Dai Vernon.

__________________
"The Passion of an Amateur Card Magician" https://bit.ly/2lXdO2O
"La pasion de un cartómago aficionado" https://bit.ly/2kkjpjn
Latest erratum corrections and improvements update, 16/06/2020
0
marv long

Avatar / Picture

Inner Circle
Registered:
Posts: 52
Reply with quote  #13 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gracie Morgan

If I can do it, you can do it.

Here's a PDF on the technique along with THE ORIGINAL ILLUSTRATIONS for those who would like to learn it!

Ron had several different returns and you can make out Charlie Miller's favorite from the illustrations.


I've seen you work Gracie and there are a lot of things you can do that I can't LOL. Thanks for the pdf.

BTW did you cover this in one of the lectures. I was not a member then so I missed them but if you did I'll buy them just to see your work on it. Thanks.
0
James Chartier

Member
Registered:
Posts: 8
Reply with quote  #14 
Boy that is a tough question...for what works for one may not work for another...For me personally; I do the Derek Dingle lift...with my own handling (sort of a combination of Harry Loraynes and Dingles) ...I know that doesn't help but Dingle's is worth looking into...actually you should study all of them and see which one suits your style and handling.   Oh...yes...do try out the Strike Double...
  
0
marv long

Avatar / Picture

Inner Circle
Registered:
Posts: 52
Reply with quote  #15 
Quote:
Originally Posted by James Chartier
Boy that is a tough question...for what works for one may not work for another...For me personally; I do the Derek Dingle lift...with my own handling (sort of a combination of Harry Loraynes and Dingles) ...I know that doesn't help but Dingle's is worth looking into...actually you should study all of them and see which one suits your style and handling.   Oh...yes...do try out the Strike Double...
  

Welcome James - Now make sure you post an introduction so everyone can meet you.
0
Magic Harry

Inner Circle
Registered:
Posts: 349
Reply with quote  #16 
Thank you Gracie for the double lift PDF. I'm sure it's welcome by all.
Speaking of the double lift I seem to remember reading a quote a loong time ago attributed to either Senater Clark Crandal or Charlie Miller. It goes something like " a double lift is nothing more than a two card fan." Maybe one of you heard this and can give the correct credit.
Magic Harry

__________________
Harry Damareck
0
Previous Topic | Next Topic
Print
Reply

Quick Navigation:

Easily create a Forum Website with Website Toolbox.