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Kuzelnik

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Reply with quote  #1 
Hello there fellow magicians, I'm asking for a recommendation. It's for a book. Specifically that there is mainly card magic but i don't mean a book full of techniques like Expert card technique or Expert at the card table - no I'm not looking for this type of a book. More like Asi Winds repertoire where there are only routine. Thanks and have a nice day![biggrin]
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Kenneth Lee

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Reply with quote  #2 
Anything by Harry Lorayne, of course. :-)
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Rudy Tinoco

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Reply with quote  #3 
Quote:
Originally Posted by kennball
Anything by Harry Lorayne, of course. :-)


I agree. Harry often includes his presentation and then always encourages you to infuse it with your own patter, personality, and presentation.

What are some other examples of the kinds of books that you're looking for?

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Lucas Maillard

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Reply with quote  #4 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kuzelnik
Hello there fellow magicians, I'm asking for a recommendation. It's for a book. Specifically that there is mainly card magic but i don't mean a book full of techniques like Expert card technique or Expert at the card table - no I'm not looking for this type of a book. More like Asi Winds repertoire where there are only routine. Thanks and have a nice day![biggrin]


Hi Kuzelnik,

Welcome to TMF. Please let us know a bit more about your background in magic. We'll then be able to give you some leads.

Cheers,

L.
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Kuzelnik

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Reply with quote  #5 
Well I started magic (mainly card magic) about 3 months ago. Probably my first step up from learning only from Youtube was when i bought the Expert Card Technique and the Royal Road To Card Magic. Even though RRTCM is a book from which I knew a lot of techniques it’s still a great book. So I mostly learn techniques from ECT. But probably one of my favorite effects is the one performed by Franco Pascali on the Mr Beast 100 000$ challenge. So I dug into it and I realized you need a mnemonica deck. So now I’m learning the Tamariz mnemonica stack (I almost know it already). And I learned about the mnemonica deck when one of my friends reccomended the book repertoire by Asi Wind. So I bought it online and it is INCREDIBLE. The routines in that book are so smart. Maybe I’m saying this cause I haven’t read a lot of card magic books. So shortened - I started learning magic on youtube then moved onto books and now I’m learning some of my favorite effects.

Stay home and safe everyone!
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Lucas Maillard

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Reply with quote  #6 
Hi Kuzelnik,

I'm one of the people that believe you should have solid foundations before moving on other topics.

If you've "only" been into magic for 3 months, I believe you should focus on mastering (i.e practicing technique, sleight, psychology) what is included in the RRTCM till they become second nature. Regarding ECT, I believe it's one of the toughest book to master. It is definitely an advanced card book for technician.

Nothing wrong with getting excited to learn a stack at this point, but I believe you should be able to do false shuffle, false cut and be confident in your foundations before moving on this kind of magic.

There is an interesting topic about fundamentals techniques here : https://www.themagiciansforum.com/post/fundamental-card-sleights-10508515?highlight=fundamentals

Several books recommendations to perfect your foundations :

- The Magic Book by Harry Lorayne (available as softcover here)
- Card College serie by Roberto Giobbi (available at any good magic dealer, but also from the author himself, with the possibility of getting them signed here)

I would recommend to follow this advice from the first chapter of RRTCM which is paramount in learning magic :

"By resisting the impulse to learn everything at once but by practising each step as you go, you will, with a speed that will amaze you, soon have travelled the entire road; when finally in that way you have reached its end, you will be a far more competent card conjurer than will the more impatient reader".

Hope this helps;

L.

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Andrew

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Reply with quote  #7 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lucas Maillard
Hi Kuzelnik,

I'm one of the people that believe you should have solid foundations before moving on other topics.

If you've "only" been into magic for 3 months, I believe you should focus on mastering (i.e practicing technique, sleight, psychology) what is included in the RRTCM till they become second nature. Regarding ECT, I believe it's one of the toughest book to master. It is definitely an advanced card book for technician.

Nothing wrong with getting excited to learn a stack at this point, but I believe you should be able to do false shuffle, false cut and be confident in your foundations before moving on this kind of magic.

There is an interesting topic about fundamentals techniques here : https://www.themagiciansforum.com/post/fundamental-card-sleights-10508515?highlight=fundamentals

Several books recommendations to perfect your foundations :

- The Magic Book by Harry Lorayne (available as softcover here)
- Card College serie by Roberto Giobbi (available at any good magic dealer, but also from the author himself, with the possibility of getting them signed here)

I would recommend to follow this advice from the first chapter of RRTCM which is paramount in learning magic :

"By resisting the impulse to learn everything at once but by practising each step as you go, you will, with a speed that will amaze you, soon have travelled the entire road; when finally in that way you have reached its end, you will be a far more competent card conjurer than will the more impatient reader".

Hope this helps;

L.



I was in the process of writing this exact sentiment, got interrupted and when I came back this had been written.

I second this advice. It will serve you well. Get a solid and unshakeable foundation and everything will grow from there.

The wonderful universe of books will still be there when you have your foundation.

All the best

Andrew

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MarekT

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Reply with quote  #8 
Hello Kuzelnik

Probably a fellow from Slovakia like me ? 

To answer your question. Yes the mnemonica stack is great lots a things to do with it but as mentioned by Lucas Maillard best for a starting magician is to learn the techniques and drill them so they come as second nature 😉

Since you have the RRTCM I recommend looking at those tricks they are mostly easy but at the end of the book there are some masterpieces that require a lot of practice.

Also Harry Lorayne - The magic book you cant go wrong with that it has a lot of stuff in it and not only card magic 😉 

And if you want tricks with (stacks, memorized decks, double backers, etc. ) I recommend Encyclopedia of Card tricks by Jean Hugard - I love this book for the concept that is is divided in chapters where each uses a different technique 😉 

So hope this was helpful to you 

Kind regards

Marek
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Kuzelnik

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Reply with quote  #9 
Thanks to all of you for this simple but astonishingly good advice. Hope you all have a nice day and I’ll be getting into reading right now. :)
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Andrew

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Reply with quote  #10 
You'll see a lot of folk recommending Harry Lorayne. We watched a great interview with him the other night. It's been posted in the forum - I can't remember where. It's worth checking out.

I just ordered one of Harry's books yesterday. So I'm looking forward to joining the ranks of those who can recommend his work. I love the fact that there is so much out there to discover.

Good luck on your journey. Have fun.

Andrew
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Medifro

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Reply with quote  #11 
Semi-Automatic series by Steve Beam. All card tricks. All good methods. 50% are good, the others are spelling and counting which I hate. 

John Bannon DVDs/books are almost all great routines.

Joshua Jay's Magic the Complete Course is one of the best magic books in the modern era. Cards plus other stuff. It comes with a DVD.  I have no idea why people still recommend Royal Road to Card Magic for beginners, in 2020. 
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Andrew

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Reply with quote  #12 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Medifro
Semi-Automatic series by Steve Beam. All card tricks. All good methods. 50% are good, the others are spelling and counting which I hate. 

John Bannon DVDs/books are almost all great routines.

Joshua Jay's Magic the Complete Course is one of the best magic books in the modern era. Cards plus other stuff. It comes with a DVD.  I have no idea why people still recommend Royal Road to Card Magic for beginners, in 2020. 


Hi, Medifro.

Hope you're well.

I personally feel that Royal Road still has lots of value despite it's age. Obviously it is an old book and classic text, and, of course, there are more contemporary texts out there. But it's the book I learned from and I think it has served me well. I don't think that a serious student would suffer or be hindered by starting their journey there. I thought it was wonderful learning from it. So I'm happy to recommend it. Plus, the OP was already reading it. I guess that's my personal reasons.

But I take your point that there are more up to date resources, and it's great that others have a different point of view to offer.

Thanks

Andrew
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Mbreggar

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Reply with quote  #13 
Kuzelnik,
I too recommend any of Harry’s books. In just about every entry, once Harry teaches you the mechanics of a trick, he recommends a presentational structure (and tells us how he presents it)

Also, you may want to check out any (or all) of my books. (Shameless self promotion department)
I have always written up my effects as full-blown presentations, right down to the scripting I use. I present the effects as if you are in the audience watching the performance and then I go into (great) detail about the structure of the effect and the mechanics. And all my published stuff is slieght-lite.

The two or three people who like my material say this structure allows them to easily adapt the effects to their own personal style. That is one of the most important magic writing I lessons I learned from Maestro Lorayne.
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StevePR104

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Reply with quote  #14 
...and for those who are not aware, Mike has recently published a new book, "Expert at the Cod Table," by S.W. Ordfish.  

Gee, Mike, where can anyone who's interested find a copy?
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Gracie Morgan

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Reply with quote  #15 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Medifro
I have no idea why people still recommend Royal Road to Card Magic for beginners, in 2020. 

Because it has value. Ron Bauer once told me that you don't have to do all the stuff in Royal Road to Card Magic, but you should go through and understand all the stuff in there.

Gracie
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Medifro

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Reply with quote  #16 
Royal Road is a great book. Phenomenal. Has great value, its value for the money had been unsurpassed for years.

I'm just saying it won't be my first recommendation for beginners as better introductory books had been published, since 70yrs of its publication.

Harry Lorayne's and Joshua Jay's being prime examples. 

Thats about it.

To keep my post useful for the OP:I would suggest Darwin Ortiz's books for card routines as all of them are designed specifically for laymen as opposed to fellow magicians in mind. Paul Harris's True Astonishment set is great too. 
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Andrew

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Reply with quote  #17 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Medifro
Royal Road is a great book. Phenomenal. Has great value, its value for the money had been unsurpassed for years.

I'm just saying it won't be my first recommendation for beginners as better introductory books had been published, since 70yrs of its publication.

Harry Lorayne's and Joshua Jay's being prime examples. 

Thats about it.

To keep my post useful for the OP:I would suggest Darwin Ortiz's books for card routines as all of them are designed specifically for laymen as opposed to fellow magicians in mind. Paul Harris's True Astonishment set is great too. 



It's a fair point you make, Medifro.

I guess we're all at different levels of what we've read and can recommend. The more I read the more I'll be able to recommend, I'm sure. It's a journey.

Thanks for your response.

Andrew


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Kuzelnik

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Reply with quote  #18 
Is there any specific David Ortiz book you would recommend Medifro?
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Lucas Maillard

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Reply with quote  #19 
If you're serious about learning card magic, I believe every Darwin Ortiz book is a must-read.

However, Darwin Ortiz makes no excuse for tricks that are technically demanding. He only cares about the best method to reach the best effect. This sometimes includes easy sleights, often it doesn't.

I do have every Ortiz books on my shelves with the exception of the Annotated Erdnase. I do recommend all of them, but you'll have to do your homework before being able to get the best out of them.

You can check the table of contents + a short resume of each tricks here : https://www.conjuringarchive.com/books/artist/O

Cardshark is OOP as well as Scams and Fantaisies with cards. They cost quite a lot on the second hand market.  At the Table has been recently reprinted.

My advice would be to be confident with a deck of cards, mastering the basic techniques (Card College 1 from Giobbi at least or RRTCM) before moving to an Ortiz book.

Nothing wrong with getting a book that will be over your head at the present time, I just want you to be aware that I think any Ortiz book is too demanding for someone with "only" three months of magic practice. There are better books to make a transition between RRTCM-like books and Darwin Ortiz.

Do not hesitate to ask any more informations if you have any doubts before buying a book, we'll try to help you to the best of our knowledge.

L.
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Robin Dawes

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Reply with quote  #20 
Great wise advice from Lucas Maillard!

I would also recommend that all magicians read the original "Stars of Magic" - and if particularly interested in card magic, Ganson/Vernon's "Inner Secrets" books
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Harry Lorayne

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Reply with quote  #21 


     No question re: Darwin's (an old friend) books.  But I don't think Maillard knows about SPECIAL EFFECTS, LORAYNE: THE CLASSIC COLLECTION volumes, ONLY MY APOCALYPSE, JAW DROPPERS 2, AND FINALLY!, etc..
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Rudy Tinoco

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Reply with quote  #22 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Harry Lorayne


     No question re: Darwin's (an old friend) books.  But I don't think Maillard knows about SPECIAL EFFECTS, LORAYNE: THE CLASSIC COLLECTION volumes, ONLY MY APOCALYPSE, JAW DROPPERS 2, AND FINALLY!, etc..


Hi Harry, Lucas Maillard already mentioned you and recommended your books in post number six of this thread.

Rudy

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Lucas Maillard

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Reply with quote  #23 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Harry Lorayne


     No question re: Darwin's (an old friend) books.  But I don't think Maillard knows about SPECIAL EFFECTS, LORAYNE: THE CLASSIC COLLECTION volumes, ONLY MY APOCALYPSE, JAW DROPPERS 2, AND FINALLY!, etc..


Harry, while I do like your work, one can't reply to this question : 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kuzelnik
Is there any specific Darwin Ortiz book you would recommend Medifro?


by saying : SPECIAL EFFECTS, LORAYNE: THE CLASSIC COLLECTION volumes, ONLY MY APOCALYPSE, JAW DROPPERS 2, AND FINALLY!, etc.. 

😉

L.
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Harry Lorayne

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Reply with quote  #24 

   Agreed. Just wanted a plug opportunity!!!
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Jim Straight

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Reply with quote  #25 
Here's my experience...

I started in magic about three years ago. I became fascinated with cards like you and tried to jump into the deep end with mem deck work and some more challenging works by people like Darwin Ortiz or Ed Marlo. Big mistake. I may have been able to figure out how to do the tricks but I was not even close to being able to perform them.

I've heard a few people, Joshua Jay is specifically who I remember, give the advice of learn three tricks and actually perform them as much as you can. Learn them inside and out. I wish I had done that.

Next, watch the masters on YouTube and see how they perform. There are great videos of Harry Lorrayne, Michael Vincent, Bill Malone and others performing relatively easy tricks but they are miracles because of their wonderful presentations. Watch our fearless leader Rudy Tinoco! He does some great stuff that isn't too hard.

Finally, even though memorized deck routines can be challenging, I would say start memorizing a deck now. I did early on and I am glad I did. Why? First, once I had it memorized I was able to practice card magic anytime. I would just review the deck in all kinds of ways in my head...in order, backwards, by suit etc...Second, once you know a deck there are some very easy things you can do with it like having an entire deck of keys card. Third, in a few months or a year when you have the added skills you will be ready to jump in to some challenging but amazing mem deck routines.

Most importantly...have fun!
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Kuzelnik

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Reply with quote  #26 
First of all thank you for all of these advices. Second of all I have started memorizing the Tamariz stack about 3 days ago and I am glad I did don’t know why but I just find the satisfaction in knowing every position of every card.I have learned number to card and now i’m learning card to number. Third of all the thing you said about the three tricks are those tricks any kind or specific type or just my favorite?
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Jim Straight

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Reply with quote  #27 
I don't think it matters what the tricks are or the type. Just pick tricks that you can easily do and have fun performing. If you don't have some of the books others have suggested there are a few youtube channels that focus on easy card tricks.
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EndersGame

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Reply with quote  #28 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lucas Maillard
I'm one of the people that believe you should have solid foundations before moving on other topics.

If you've "only" been into magic for 3 months, I believe you should focus on mastering (i.e practicing technique, sleight, psychology) what is included in the RRTCM till they become second nature. Regarding ECT, I believe it's one of the toughest book to master. It is definitely an advanced card book for technician.

Nothing wrong with getting excited to learn a stack at this point, but I believe you should be able to do false shuffle, false cut and be confident in your foundations before moving on this kind of magic.

Several books recommendations to perfect your foundations :

- The Magic Book by Harry Lorayne (available as softcover here)
- Card College serie by Roberto Giobbi (available at any good magic dealer, but also from the author himself, with the possibility of getting them signed here)

This is excellent advice, and I strongly wish I had done this when I had started my own interest in card magic 30 years ago, rather than too quickly getting into specific tricks and novelties.  First master the fundamentals of card handling and techniques, and in the long run the rest of your card magic will go faster and further from there.

I agree with the two suggestions given about good places to start.  Giobbi's Card College books also have a companion video series that I highly recommend - I've given a detailed overview of them here: Card College 1 & 2 - Personal Instruction: The Complete Course 

If you're on a budget, start by getting his 150 page eBook Introduction to Card Magic, which is available for just €6.95 here.

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Medifro

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Reply with quote  #29 
I got a better idea where you at right now. You being into Mem deck and Asi Wind’s book kinda mislead me.

I recommend Joshua Jay’s Magic the complete course for you. Loraynes book is great too but older I My opinion.

Mem deck is fun however the books on it are hardcore. Darwin Ortiz is great and his magic (as opposed to gambling) material is not as hard as a lot of people think, but it requires deep understanding of psychology that you may not have, yet.

If you reeeeally want to do cards Card College is great. A cheaper option with better value is Roberto Giobbi’s (it’s author) Penguin lectures.

Best of luck! It’s a cool trip.

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Harry Lorayne

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Reply with quote  #30 
   So am I.  Thanks Medifro.  (And better?)
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Kenneth Lee

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Reply with quote  #31 
For the record, I also mentioned (and recommended) Harry's work in post #2 of the thread. :-) Now that I've read a little more and gotten to know the OP a little better, let me be a little more specific. In your case, I'd start with Close-up Card Magic. For most people who read it, it changes their whole perspective on what good card magic is. I can't recommend it highly enough.
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Andrew

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Reply with quote  #32 
Kennball,

My copy of Close Up Card Magic is in the post. Can't wait!

Andrew
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