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Mind Phantom

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So, I am going thru my limited books on mentalism and I cannot find anything on Equivoque. As I posted not long ago I am interested in doing a test with water ala Dr. Emoto's claims that water can record our thoughts and feelings.

Yup, I am blowing my stimulus check  ( well, a lot of it anyways ) on magic books. Can you point me in the right direction on the subject of the Magician's Choice ?

Thanks

MP-

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Marco Batista

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Reply with quote  #2 
Hi Mind Phantom,

The only publication I know of on the subject is not really a book - it's more of a booklet called Verbal Control by Max Maven.

What I know about the subject of Equivoque, I have learned with John Carey in the following download:

https://www.alakazam.co.uk/equivoque-and-tttcbe-masterclass-with-john-carey-sunday-10th-november-5pm-uk.html



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Axel

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Reply with quote  #3 
Hi Mind Phantom,

the classics are The Mental Key by Phantini (aka Gene Grant), should be somewhere near 1950 (?), then of course Max Maven´s Verbal Control around 1970, Jack Dean Mental Choice around the 1990, Docc Hilford has a pamphlet E´voque, there some really good books, although in German..., by Wonder Man Fred Don´t Go Where The Road Don´t Go and Chester Sass in 100% Chestosteron.

These are the first that come to my mind...I´ll think about in more depth..

All the best,

Axel
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Harry Lorayne

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        I teach it in quite a few of my books - including a couple of my own ways to "handle" it.  Ya' gotta' start reading the good stuff, guys!! 
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Dave Campbell

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you can search here -- I started a thread about this once, and there were others before
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Lewis Jones has a section in his book 'The Encyclopedia of Impromptu Card Forces' - the entire book is amazingly informative and well worth the investment of your time and money.
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Harry Lorayne

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     If you have my new expensive e-book (MORE JAW DROPPERS - $14.95)  check out The Secret Of Five. (Thanks for the plug opportunity!!)
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Zero

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Max Maven - Verbal Control

Max Maven - Multiplicity

Jon Raucherbaumer - Hobsonian hanguide

Hector Chadwick - Art of equivoque (highly recommended tbqh - absolutely next level)

Mark Elson used to do a lecture - He does have some work in a live lecture, which is great. Apparently, he's working on a book...   

The Berglas Effect has many chapters dedicated to it also if one can find it. 

 

These are all complete sources of quiverkay - as I've found them to be, however, each author has their take on what's vital and the general hierarchy of rules to follow, generally, there are about 13 rules for good EKVK. After adequate study, you will probably end up with your own hierarchy of essential factors, though some are just non-negotiable, these you will discover through comparing and contrasting these publications/videos, you can comfortably break other rules as Berglas breaks some of the rules mentioned by Hector, but clearly, it worked for David, it's just about understanding the material. 

I'd recommend reading as many of these as possible, Maxs' verbal control being the foundations and then Hobsonian-Handguide and Art of Equivoque to expand on the general rules and how much more sophisticated you can make it. 

Multiplicity has an element of equivoque titled "The high-end gambit". It seems no one knows about this even though it cleans up almost every equivoque procedure that you may come across - highly recommended watching after going through the foundational stuff. Max also issues a redaction of a pressure technique that was misconstrued by people in verbal control to do with his approach to tone and offering enough ekihvahkey routines here to give you a general idea on how to do almost any. But just for the high-end gambit, this is worth its weight in gold. 

Berglas expands on tone and body language, employing naturalness, but you can get the same ideas and principles through other work such as Dariel Fitzkee - Magic by Misdirection. 

Jons' Handguide covers Marlos' pellet and how to navigate 2,3,4,5+ object quiverkay includes a few 52-1 routines also. A different approach in the way he defines The VeeKay from the usual as he makes it to be "game-like" through his rules, not all are fundamental rules as a few are taste.

Mark Elsdon covers quite a lot of great material in his live lecture, and of note is his tri'mpromptu routine (really looking forward to a better name for this in his book. I prefer my own name "Phone in the middle") - which is a free will style effect using 'vokay (Which is excellent, this is a nice direction to take equeevok)

After reading all the above (as much as you can get your hands on), I recommend reading the Jerx talking about Eckweeevohquay - though I don't agree with the definition of "First wave equivoque" (which is simply to do it incorrectly, if it fails at doing what it's supposed to - it is no longer what it claims to be, why categorize something as something it isn't. quite frankly bonkers.) I do enjoy the ideas he presents otherwise about tone, pacing and structure.

There are plenty of single effects using equivoque in many places. Still, before you learn individual effects I suggest taking the time to just study up on the principles so that you can comfortably perform the material without having blindspots in your technique, I don't think most single effects teach as comprehensively as a complete study of this and i think we all owe it to equivoque (and ourselves) to do it well.

Edit: also don't believe the nonsense about having to do it quickly, that's totally bogus, you can do this slowly and with gravitas if only you're careful with the words and tone you use.


It's a glass cannon; treat it well, and it's beautiful and powerful, though if you mistreat - it'll shatter, and the illusion is gone.


Okey'Dokey, that's my post on Okey'voqey - (magicians/'s(s'?) choice)

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Magic Harry

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Reply with quote  #9 
Zero, you've really given this subject a lot of study. Thank you for the information.
Magic Harry 

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Gareth

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Reply with quote  #10 
John Bannon’s excellent book Mentalissimo has an essay on it.
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Bob Farmer

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Reply with quote  #11 
One of the best discussions is in the David Berglas book.
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Socrates

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Reply with quote  #12 
The Berglas discussion from his book was featured in the November 2002 edition of Magic Magazine... Mr. Farmer is correct that it is indeed one of the best discussions on equivocation out there.
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Mind Phantom

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Reply with quote  #13 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Campbell
you can search here -- I started a thread about this once, and there were others before


Sorry for being lazy Dave.

I am just glad I've got my internet problems worked out.

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Dave Campbell

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Reply with quote  #14 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mind Phantom


Sorry for being lazy Dave.

I am just glad I've got my internet problems worked out.


sorry  -- didn't mean to imply you were lazy or shouldn't have asked -- was suggesting another place to find answers if not many would have jumped in!

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Mind Phantom

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Reply with quote  #15 
I know that you didn't imply that I was "lazy".

That just came out that way when I typed it. Sometimes things come out on the internet which you don't mean say as in this case.

I know you were just trying to be helpful.

Rick,

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Dave Campbell

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Reply with quote  #16 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mind Phantom
I know that you didn't imply that I was "lazy".

That just came out that way when I typed it. Sometimes things come out on the internet which you don't mean say as in this case.

I know you were just trying to be helpful.

Rick,


no problem.. [biggrin]

the fact is … I posted pretty much the same question in a new thread a while back -- then was told that it had been posted a bunch before... so wasn't sure if people were going to reply but you got some great responses... at least 2 of those I don't have

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Tom Kracker

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Reply with quote  #17 
From a quick search on Denis Behr's site, it looks like there are quite a few books that might have some info:  https://www.conjuringarchive.com/list/search?keyword=equivoque

Heck, I think it's your "free choice".  hehe

I haven't read any of the books listed on that link or even above.  I typically only stick with the basic idea of equivoque.  For example, let's say, when I have 4 cards, I split them to two piles of two (left and right).  If the card I want them to keep is in the first pile they point to, I get rid of the other two cards and split the first pile.  When I split the two remaining cards to separate piles, I move the card I want them to keep to the other side.  However, if the card is initially in the pile they didn't point to, I still use the same logic, but getting rid of the cards they point to.  In college, I would purposely study people's actions, kind of looking into the psychology of it.  I'd say 90% of the time, people always choose the opposite pile.  It's not scientific, but that's just been my experience.  It has served me well, and most of the time I don't have to do any fancy word-play when there's inconsistent action of keeping or removing cards.

I guess I should learn some more uses.

Tom

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Reply with quote  #18 
"Equivoque at its finest is not a method, but a way of life" - Eric Mead
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