Sign up Latest Topics Chat
 
 
 


Reply
  Author   Comment  
Comte de Saint Germain

Avatar / Picture

Inner Circle
Registered:
Posts: 33
Reply with quote  #1 
Hello all,

Hope everyone is doing well with limited outside contact. So I want to learn a bottom control, and I was looking for references (I have several books but not the libraries many of you have) and or a recommended download and/or both.

I have a few stipulations, and if they end up being silly, then I'll have learned something anyway. I don't want to bring the card to the top with a pass and then send it bottom with an overhand shuffle, I also don't want to do a double undercut as I was hoping for something a bit more seamless. Also, I don't mind a move that takes a bit of practice, but don't want it too knacky.  For example I saw one control that involves a perfected spring, and frankly, I'm not there yet.

If it's easier to DM me, that's fine as well. Since I joined the forum, many replies have been helpful and instructive. Looking forward to suggestions.

Thanks and stay safe ...
0
Lucas Maillard

Avatar / Picture

Inner Circle
Registered:
Posts: 150
Reply with quote  #2 
Hi Comte de Saint Germain,

You might be interested in some kind of "Convincing Control". This is my go-to control to the bottom when a selection is my made with a spread.

There are several sources and different ways to end it. You can check https://www.conjuringarchive.com/list/category/1358

I believe Ed Marlo is offering a way to control the card to the bottom with a side steal but I don't know if it's more practical thans a convincing control. Trickshop is selling the booklet as a pdf : https://trickshop.com/marlo-side-steal.html

Hope this helps,

L.
0
chris w

Avatar / Picture

Inner Circle
Registered:
Posts: 588
Reply with quote  #3 
One good Convincing Control to look into is Larry Jennings' Immediate Bottom Placement.

A simple Hofzinser spread cull would also do the trick.
0
luvisi

Inner Circle
Registered:
Posts: 132
Reply with quote  #4 
My personal favorite is the blind shuffle for securing selected card from Erdnase https://books.google.com/books?id=_7wyAQAAMAAJ

Start with a break under the card, and undercut to the break.

Andru
0
luigimar

Avatar / Picture

Honored Member - Moderator
Registered:
Posts: 1,572
Reply with quote  #5 
TPC... Tamariz perpendicular control. It can be used to control a card to the bottom of the deck. I don't have a specific source for the move but I know it can be found in several places. It was taught to me by one of Tamariz's students.
__________________
Luigimar
Magic is Within...
0
luigimar

Avatar / Picture

Honored Member - Moderator
Registered:
Posts: 1,572
Reply with quote  #6 
The Kelly Bottom Placement. Another way to control a card to the bottom of the deck. It is a little tricky to use it deceptively.
__________________
Luigimar
Magic is Within...
0
chris w

Avatar / Picture

Inner Circle
Registered:
Posts: 588
Reply with quote  #7 
Comte, what you'll use will have something to do with what you want the spectator to think.

If the effect would benefit from a spectator thinking the card remains exactly where they saw it go (in the center), a Convincing Control, Kelly Bottom Placement, Immediate Bottom Placement, or other control that apparently leaves the card in place (without shuffling) is warranted.

If the effect would benefit from a spectator thinking there's no way the magician could have kept track of the card, as it could be anywhere (!) in the deck, then a control that involves a shuffle, such as Andru's suggestion of the Erdnase sequence, would make sense.

It's good to think about what a particular trick requires and have at least a couple options for each circumstance.
0
Mike Powers

Avatar / Picture

Honored Member
Registered:
Posts: 2,411
Reply with quote  #8 
Another vote for Convincing Control. The outjogged card makes things so "convincing."

M
0
MarekT

Member
Registered:
Posts: 28
Reply with quote  #9 
Hello

Well also the Convincing control from Ed Marlo is the most simple and deceptive control to control the card to the bottom. 

Other one is to do DPS (diagonal palm shift) - I learned it but not perfected it still it for me seems a little bit odd to do. 

So convincing control is the way to go at least for me 😉 

Regards

Marek
0
RayJ

Avatar / Picture

Honored Member
Registered:
Posts: 3,542
Reply with quote  #10 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Comte de Saint Germain
Hello all,

Hope everyone is doing well with limited outside contact. So I want to learn a bottom control, and I was looking for references (I have several books but not the libraries many of you have) and or a recommended download and/or both.

I have a few stipulations, and if they end up being silly, then I'll have learned something anyway. I don't want to bring the card to the top with a pass and then send it bottom with an overhand shuffle, I also don't want to do a double undercut as I was hoping for something a bit more seamless. Also, I don't mind a move that takes a bit of practice, but don't want it too knacky.  For example I saw one control that involves a perfected spring, and frankly, I'm not there yet.

If it's easier to DM me, that's fine as well. Since I joined the forum, many replies have been helpful and instructive. Looking forward to suggestions.

Thanks and stay safe ...


Why bring the card to the top with the pass?  Hold a break UNDER the card and pass it to the bottom.  Or for a single card, simply have the card returned and then side-jog it to the right under cover of the right hand.  Then pass it to the bottom by securing it with the left index and pinky (straddle grip).

On the subject of 'Convincing Control', Allan Ackerman has a great one in his book 'Here's My Card'.  You should get the book anyway, but that move is worth the price IMO.

Edit:  Although long out of print, I see you can order a used copy on Amazon for $32.00 plus shipping.  Although it is a relatively small book, I still think that it is worth it.  
0
DJ

Inner Circle
Registered:
Posts: 340
Reply with quote  #11 
Harry has an item called The Spread Cop in The Classic Collection Vol. 2.  I always thought it would be a good move to bring a card to the bottom, minus the cop in this case.
__________________
Dan
0
X

Avatar / Picture

Inner Circle
Registered:
Posts: 248
Reply with quote  #12 
I'll always use Pughe's pass with some of my handling variations, Orbirt Control has some extremely useful handlings for top, bottom and into a 'gamblers cop' 

also a straddle pass, Derren Brown had "mikes move" you could always do a dribble pass

it would also depend on the context of the move, what comes before and after what makes sense and what do you want the audience to "see happen" 

__________________
Professional: PK-Mentalist/Magician/Geek/Shock Entertainer

Member/Performer: Magic Castle

Creator, Consultant, Lecturer, Imagineer



0
alicauchy

Avatar / Picture

Inner Circle
Registered:
Posts: 119
Reply with quote  #13 
Quote:
Originally Posted by luigimar
TPC... Tamariz perpendicular control. It can be used to control a card to the bottom of the deck. I don't have a specific source for the move but I know it can be found in several places. It was taught to me by one of Tamariz's students.


Another vote for TPC. It can be found in the book Sonata (Bewitched music, vol 1, Ed Frakson Magic Books, 1991).

__________________
So much to do, so little time !!
0
Robin Dawes

Avatar / Picture

Honored Member
Registered:
Posts: 1,644
Reply with quote  #14 
It's hard to find - and hard to learn - but Akira Fujii's Sidewinder is one of the best-looking controls I have ever witnessed.
0
Paco Nagata

Avatar / Picture

Inner Circle
Registered:
Posts: 334
Reply with quote  #15 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robin Dawes
It's hard to find - and hard to learn - but Akira Fujii's Sidewinder is one of the best-looking controls I have ever witnessed.

Absolutly agreed!
but, as you say it's very difficult to master;
it is that kind of sleight focused on profesionals that can devote 24h per day to magic practise.
His 36 minutes DVD seems to be out of stock.

I have been a Tamariz TPC user, like luigimar and alicauchy. However, the bottom control I have used most has been Hofzinser Cull. Easy, deceptive and do the job for my lay people.


__________________
"The Passion of an Amateur Card Magician" https://bit.ly/2lXdO2O
"La pasion de un cartómago aficionado" https://bit.ly/2kkjpjn
Latest erratum corrections and improvements update, 16/06/2020
0
Mike Powers

Avatar / Picture

Honored Member
Registered:
Posts: 2,411
Reply with quote  #16 
RayJ pointed out Ackerman's version of Marlo's Convincing Control. That's the one I use. It's excellent.

Mike
0
pnielan

Inner Circle
Registered:
Posts: 133
Reply with quote  #17 
Mike---do you know if is this the one on his 8 volume video series? As well as the reference RayJ gave?

Thanks,
Paul
0
Mike Powers

Avatar / Picture

Honored Member
Registered:
Posts: 2,411
Reply with quote  #18 
Yes - Convincing Control is on Volume 3 of the Advanced Card Control Series. BTW this set of DVDs is solid gold. It's a must have for any serious card worker.

Allan attributes the basic concept to Marlo and Jennings. He teaches several versions including Marlo's original and his own version that I alluded to above. That's the one I use. It's great.

Mike
0
Comte de Saint Germain

Avatar / Picture

Inner Circle
Registered:
Posts: 33
Reply with quote  #19 
I ordered the Ackerman book and wanted to thank all of you for your suggestions. In the end, RayJ and Mike Powers convinced me. The TPC looks interesting but a copy of Sonata is beyond my means right now.
0
RayJ

Avatar / Picture

Honored Member
Registered:
Posts: 3,542
Reply with quote  #20 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Comte de Saint Germain
I ordered the Ackerman book and wanted to thank all of you for your suggestions. In the end, RayJ and Mike Powers convinced me. The TPC looks interesting but a copy of Sonata is beyond my means right now.


You will not be sorry!
0
Previous Topic | Next Topic
Print
Reply

Quick Navigation:

Easily create a Forum Website with Website Toolbox.