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Buffalo McKinley

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Reply with quote  #1 
Hello!

I'm working on Michael Vincent's "Lie Detector".  (Amazing DVD, BTW!)

He uses a "Breather Crimp".  I looked up how to make one, but I was wondering how long it will last for?  Could you perform a few card tricks, and then successfully perform a card trick that requires a breather crimp OR do you need to make the breather crimp just before performing the card trick.

Thanks,

Buffalo
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RayJ

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Reply with quote  #2 
Depends upon how strong you put the work in and/or which method. The coin method is permanent. The "x" method lasts a long time before needing to be touched up. Multiple performances for sure. Don't forget you can substitute corner shorts, scallops or even "thick" cards as an alternate. Thick cards are easy to spot if the spectator handles the deck though.
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Tom G

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Reply with quote  #3 
A lot of people have one in every deck they perform with.  Handy to have.
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rready

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Reply with quote  #4 
Breather Crimps last a very long time. Always just test it out before you perform. Put it in a new deck and it will last for a good amount of time.
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Anthony Vinson

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Reply with quote  #5 
Put a Breather in a Joker or Guarantee Joker. If you don't need it, you can always just "...remove the Jokers before beginning." 

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RayJ

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Reply with quote  #6 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anthony Vinson
Put a Breather in a Joker or Guarantee Joker. If you don't need it, you can always just "...remove the Jokers before beginning." 

Av


Same with shorts and thick cards, just take them out if needed.
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Buffalo McKinley

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Reply with quote  #7 
Thanks, everyone!

Is this the best way to make a Breather Crimp if I'm not looking to permanently alter the card?





-Buffalo
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RayJ

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Reply with quote  #8 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Buffalo McKinley
Thanks, everyone!

Is this the best way to make a Breather Crimp if I'm not looking to permanently alter the card?





-Buffalo


That is a good method, the "x" method. The coin method is where you press a coin into the card to make a flat dimple.
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DJ

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Reply with quote  #9 
You can look into an Infinity Crimp if you want to crimp on the fly and have it work itself out on its own.
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jim ferguson

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Reply with quote  #10 
The coin method, or Will De Sieve Crimp (I'm not sure if that's spelled correctly), isn't actually a breather. A breather, is so called because if the card is cut to the top of the deck, and the light strikes it in the right way, the card seems to "lift" slightly - as if it has took a breath. The X crimp does this (when the crimp is made with the thumb on the face of the card), and is a breather.

The Will De Sieve Crimp, is best when the crimp is made off centre, rather than right in the middle - about where one of the end pips is on a three spot.
If done in the centre it tends to leave a slight, but visible line/gap in the cards. Doing it at one end means the slight gap is more hidden, and can be kept at the back of the deck.

There are other variations such as cutting out a single pip from an extra card, and gluing it onto a card in your deck.
There are also devices available which put a very tiny bump in the card. One or two of these bumps would give you a permanently crimped card in your deck.

Personally, I prefer to use a traditional crimp. I simply put it in during the trick, and take it out at the end.


Jim

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Tom G

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Reply with quote  #11 
Another version of a cut to card is just a piece of tape over the short edges of a card on both ends.  The card is easy to cut to.  You do somewhat put a permanent work into the breather, even when it's not "working" well there's still a little something.  But for the versatility of it, it's worth it.  Depending on whether you put the breather in face up or face down will determine if the breather cuts to the top or bottom.
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RayJ

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Reply with quote  #12 
You can also wax a card and make it slick. I've heard Simonize works. The slick card will slide more and make an obvious separation.

Thick cards can also be made by cutting the entire perimeter off and then gluing what's left to the back of a card. So the edge is single thickness but the card is thick in the middle.

Tons of ways to create a card that can be found by cutting or even spreading.
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Lucas Maillard

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Reply with quote  #13 
Buffalo, 

I'm also performing this trick and you're right when you say it's a killer. I do use either a breather or a corner crimp (For crimp's sake in Marlo without tears).

When using a breather, i do put it on my 9 of clubs (an advice that can be read in Cardshark by Darwin Ortiz. It has been suggested to Darwin by Jason England).

As mentionned above, it will last a lot if you put some work on it. I find it easy to put some more work even in front of spectators. Just try it for yourself and see how it goes.

Some videos sources on how to make a breather : Jason England Live At the card table / Howard Hamburg Penguin Live lecture. If you happen to have one of them I can search for you the exact moment where it's mentionned.

Some books ressources that I'm aware of : Roger's Thesaurus p.104

You can also check conjuring archives to see if you have any of the books that are related to "breather crimp" : https://www.conjuringarchive.com/list/search?keyword=breather+crimp

I hope this helps.

Cheers,

Lucas.
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rready

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Reply with quote  #14 
Magician Bob King has written soo much great material on the Breather but unfortunately it is very hard to find them.
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Alan Smithee

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Reply with quote  #15 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jim ferguson
The coin method, or Will De Sieve Crimp (I'm not sure if that's spelled correctly), isn't actually a breather. A breather, is so called because if the card is cut to the top of the deck, and the light strikes it in the right way, the card seems to "lift" slightly - as if it has took a breath. The X crimp does this (when the crimp is made with the thumb on the face of the card), and is a breather.

  Jim

You’re right Jim. It’s Will DeSeive. The coin thing was published in "Greater Magic," but before that it appeared as a standalone item in a booklet called "The Master Control".

Gene Gordon, in his "Magical Legacy" book says that he (Gordon) published the concept as a standalone item sometime in the 1930s. And gave it the name.

Somewhere in the darkest recesses of the forum is a thread related to crimps of this and that sort. Someone asks about "The Pinch". Several comments interpreted this as the DeSeive Master Move. Part of it revolves around the mythical "Scarne Aces". 

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Buffalo McKinley

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Reply with quote  #16 
Thanks everyone for all the great advice!

Does the Breather Crimp go over or under the selected card when the selected card is returned to the deck?

Also, when using the "X" method to make a Breather Crimp, does it matter if you run your thumb over the top or bottom of the card?  I've tried both and I noticed that one way when I cut the deck (breather crimp in the middle of the deck) the breather crimp stays on the top of one of the packs, but if I create a breather crimp with my thumb on the other side, the breather crimp stays on the bottom of the other pack when I cut.

Thanks,

Buffalo
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RayJ

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Reply with quote  #17 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Buffalo McKinley
Thanks everyone for all the great advice!

Does the Breather Crimp go over or under the selected card when the selected card is returned to the deck?

Also, when using the "X" method to make a Breather Crimp, does it matter if you run your thumb over the top or bottom of the card?  I've tried both and I noticed that one way when I cut the deck (breather crimp in the middle of the deck) the breather crimp stays on the top of one of the packs, but if I create a breather crimp with my thumb on the other side, the breather crimp stays on the bottom of the other pack when I cut.

Thanks,

Buffalo


Buffalo, you sort of answered your own question.  You can fashion breathers in order to go either way.  What suits the trick or your own preference.  

There is no right or wrong here, whatever works for you....works!
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Buffalo McKinley

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Reply with quote  #18 
Quote:
Originally Posted by RayJ


Buffalo, you sort of answered your own question.  You can fashion breathers in order to go either way.  What suits the trick or your own preference.  

There is no right or wrong here, whatever works for you....works!



Thanks, Ray!

Sometimes I come up with an approach to something and I don't know if I'm missing something or if there's a better way.

-Buffalo
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Mbreggar

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Reply with quote  #19 
Ted Lesley, in Paramiracles, has suggestions for alternatives to Breathers. He, like many others, believed the Breathers to be somewhat unreliable. One idea I really like is to put tiny dots of superglue at the four corners of the “large rectangle” outlining a typical Bicycle card. Like a Breather, this causes a slight elevation of the cards above it and therefore easy to cut to a card (the card just above the gaff) 
Erik Tait is a proponent of this method too. See his “Suit Cut to Order” trick from Penguin.
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RayJ

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Reply with quote  #20 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mbreggar
Ted Lesley, in Paramiracles, has suggestions for alternatives to Breathers. He, like many others, believed the Breathers to be somewhat unreliable. One idea I really like is to put tiny dots of superglue at the four corners of the “large rectangle” outlining a typical Bicycle card. Like a Breather, this causes a slight elevation of the cards above it and therefore easy to cut to a card (the card just above the gaff) 
Erik Tait is a proponent of this method too. See his “Suit Cut to Order” trick from Penguin.


That is a very interesting one. You could achieve almost the same with a strong "punch" at the 4 corners of the outline around a court card. I think that would camouflage the pin pricks. Punches might be more reliable than breathers.
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Anthony Vinson

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Reply with quote  #21 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mbreggar
Ted Lesley, in Paramiracles, has suggestions for alternatives to Breathers. He, like many others, believed the Breathers to be somewhat unreliable. One idea I really like is to put tiny dots of superglue at the four corners of the “large rectangle” outlining a typical Bicycle card. Like a Breather, this causes a slight elevation of the cards above it and therefore easy to cut to a card (the card just above the gaff) 
Erik Tait is a proponent of this method too. See his “Suit Cut to Order” trick from Penguin.


Hm. I like that idea. Wonder how it would work if you used the glue around the edges of the inner rectangle of Bicycle cards? You know, at the four angels? A different feel, and perhaps even a bit more manageable? Think I'll give it a go and report back if it comes to anything. At any rate I'm going to try the four outer corners idea.

Thanks, Michael!

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Paul Hallas

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Reply with quote  #22 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom G
Another version of a cut to card is just a piece of tape over the short edges of a card on both ends.  The card is easy to cut to.  You do somewhat put a permanent work into the breather, even when it's not "working" well there's still a little something.  But for the versatility of it, it's worth it.  Depending on whether you put the breather in face up or face down will determine if the breather cuts to the top or bottom.


This version was marketed by Gary Oulettt and the Camirand Academy I recall.
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Robin Dawes

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Reply with quote  #23 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul Hallas


This version was marketed by Gary Oulettt and the Camirand Academy I recall.


He called it Pro-Control.
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MagikDon

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Reply with quote  #24 
Rudy Hunter also had a version where he used Scotch Invisible Tape and called it "Total Control" and sold by Magic Makers. It is easy to do, but too obvious for my tastes.



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RayJ

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Reply with quote  #25 
It is clear that there are literally dozens of ways to alter cards in order to be able to cut to them on demand.  We didn't even touch on the use of cards with matching backs that have different finishes.  That used to be possible with Aristocrats back in the day as they were offered in a smooth and a textured version.  That will be possible again I think with the re-issue of the Jerry's Nuggets.  If the colors match you can probably mix and match between the "Vintage Feel" and "Modern Feel".  It might not have the same effect as the Aristocrats, but might be worth playing with.

The amount of thinking that has gone on for this purpose is amazing to me.
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