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Reno

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"Mr. Magician, what do you mean when you say that you removed 2 of the Queens?  Where are they now? Are the ones you removed in that little packet of cards you just put on the table? I'm thinking of a black queen and a red queen—do you know which ones? You told me to think of Queens. Do you know which Queens I'm thinking of? You don't? Well then, you are not much of a magician, I don't think that you can read my mind, and I doubt that you have any psychic abilities, either. Do you know any 4- Ace tricks?
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EVILDAN

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Reply with quote  #2 
I've performed this for years. Never had an issue. I have a two hour walk around gig tomorrow and plan to on performing it and don't anticipate any problems.

I always hear people say mentalism is easy. Apparently not.
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arthur stead

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Reply with quote  #3 
Great effect!  I did the Jumbo version very successfully for several years and, like Evil Dan, never had any problems.
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EVILDAN

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Reply with quote  #4 
1.5 hours till I perform. I'll keep track of how many times I perform B"Wave today and if I get questioned on it.
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Bob Farmer

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Reply with quote  #5 
A nice followup for a repeat audience is, "Alice's Revenge:"



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Robin Dawes

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Reply with quote  #6 
I have to wonder if Reno posted this as a joke?  I've never experienced, seen, or even heard of anyone getting this response to B'Wave.  The (hypothetical?) volunteer seems to have been given very poor instructions by Mr. Magician.
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EVILDAN

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Reply with quote  #7 
7 times in 2 hours.
No responses like the OP noted.
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Anthony Vinson

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Reply with quote  #8 
Been performing B'Wave for years and the only issues I've experienced involved being accused of witchcraft.

I agree with Bob, Alice's Revenge is indeed a great follow-up. in fact, when in a position to do so, which isn't often enough, I perform John Bannon's Discrepancy City Prediction, followed by B'Wave, and finishing with Alice's Revenge.

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Intensely Magic

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Reply with quote  #9 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Farmer
A nice followup for a repeat audience is, "Alice's Revenge:"





I miss Magic Friday.

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Intensely Magic

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Quote:
Originally Posted by EVILDAN
I've performed this for years. Never had an issue. I have a two hour walk around gig tomorrow and plan to on performing it and don't anticipate any problems.

I always hear people say mentalism is easy. Apparently not.


Evil One, if you don't mind, do you do the spectator table thing on your walk around or have you managed to work strictly "in the hands"?

Thanks.....
Steve

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EVILDAN

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Reply with quote  #11 
Steve, everything is in the hands.
Some key points...
1. I place the cards into my left hand so that the long edges face me and the spectator. This way there is no need for a turn around to correctly orientate the cards. You just move the appropriate narrow edge to the front and proceed.
2. I spread the top card over, then the bottom card, remarking that I know where the reversed card is and that this helps build suspense and then show the card for reveal #1.
3. I say that of course you might think I'm a magician and that I could have made any of the Kings turn face up but look at this. At this point the cards are spread in a four card fan, second card from bottom reversed. I pull out the reversed card, turn it over and place it face down on top, in the middle of the other three cards, injogged a lot in the left hand and clamp down on the cards with my left thumb. Odd backed card is the second reveal.
4. Final reveal. I remark how all of this was in our imagination and I never really pulled out cards or flipped one face up and likewise the other three kinds never really existed. Now I slowly take the face down cards and one at a time slowly turn them face up, on top and out-jogged on the face down odd-backed card.
5. At this point it appears that I showed the front and back of each card. No one ever asks to see the cards. I say there was only one way this could have ended, thank them for sharing their psychic skills and move on.
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rready

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Reply with quote  #12 
Along with Mike Power's Diminishing Returns trick, B'Wave was just one of those effects that was such a stunner no one ever asked to see the cards. I used to demo these two tricks all the time and no one ever wanted to see the cards.
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Robin Dawes

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Reply with quote  #13 
Quote:
Originally Posted by EVILDAN
... thank them for sharing their psychic skills and move on.


Excellent presentation, ED ... and there's the key point that derails the (imaginary?) reaction in the post that started this thread : present B'Wave as a demonstration of the volunteer's psychic ability, not the magician's.
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Reno

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Reply with quote  #14 
Now this seems like real magic. Name any ace: it will turn face-up. No crazy, tortuous, magician's equivoque—" I had a dream last night about you and the 4 aces, and you threw 2 of them into the air, and . . .—or nonsensical patter.






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Sibex

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Reply with quote  #15 
Out of curiosity, which of Paul's books is this in? I've got a few but don't recall it.
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EVILDAN

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Reply with quote  #16 
First, this is a magic trick, where you can make anything happen; in this case any one of the four aces turn face up. B'Wave is mind reading. You're having the spectator tell you which one of four cards is face up. Different premise. Different presentation.

Second, I don't get Paul's trick!! You say you have four aces. You show four cards. You tell the person to name any Ace. The four cards are spread, that ace is now face up. So far so good.

But then you take the three face down cards and show four face up blanks. Huh?

Where and why does the extra blank card appear?

What am I missing??
4-1=3
This trick is 4-1=5

I know Paul is on this board. Please explain. It's the one piece that's holding me back from even looking for this trick.
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EVILDAN

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Reply with quote  #17 
Reno... If you don't like the script change it. For me, the choices the spectator makes is a small journey. It's not laborious or non-sensical.
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Bmat

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Reply with quote  #18 
I remember when B'wave first came out and we were selling it in the shop, We were always out.  I've never had that reaction.  Of all the magicians I've known that perform the effect, I'm sure they have not had this problem.  

I can count the number of packet tricks on one hand that I know pro's use on a regular basis,  B'wave is right up there. Reno if this happened to you then you may want to re think the way you are performing the effect.   

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Anthony Vinson

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Reply with quote  #19 
Reno, you trolling? B'Wave is a specific trick created by Max Maven in the 1970s, and released to the magic fraternity in the 1980s. It hinges on an equivoque. So what? Handled correctly, and Max was clear about the handling when he released the effect, the effect kills. If you don't like the trick, or if you are uncomfortable with equivoque, that's cool. Don't perform the trick, or any tricks using the rhetorical hook. No biggie. Some of us love the trick and will continue to perform it. Again, no biggie. Bob Farmer's trick, Alice's Revenge, may be more to your liking. Did you check out the vid? No equivoque, free choice, works every time. Give it a shot!

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Bmat

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Reply with quote  #20 
Quote:
Originally Posted by EVILDAN
First, this is a magic trick, where you can make anything happen; in this case any one of the four aces turn face up. B'Wave is mind reading. You're having the spectator tell you which one of four cards is face up. Different premise. Different presentation.

Second, I don't get Paul's trick!! You say you have four aces. You show four cards. You tell the person to name any Ace. The four cards are spread, that ace is now face up. So far so good.

But then you take the three face down cards and show four face up blanks. Huh?

Where and why does the extra blank card appear?

What am I missing??
4-1=3
This trick is 4-1=5

I know Paul is on this board. Please explain. It's the one piece that's holding me back from even looking for this trick.


Here is what I always find interesting.  I really enjoyed Paul's take and presentation.  Did not even think about it making sense.   not only did the thought up card appear reversed and with a different back.  It was the only ace in the pack!   I thought it wonderful.  

Then I read the above by Evil Dan and I couldn't agree more.  When you pull it apart it makes no sense.  So I went back and watched it again.  Sure enough it did not make  lot of sense.  But I still really enjoyed it. 

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Reno

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Reply with quote  #21 
I'm a troll? Oh no, say it ain't so! I'm still waiting for someone to reveal the name of the book that Paul's B'Wave version is in. BTW, check out what this "pro" says at 0:37. omg, I can't believe it. Even Ellen has a momentary brain-freeze trying to decipher his question.





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Sibex

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Reply with quote  #22 
What exactly did he say wrong? He asked if she wanted to get rid of the reds or the blacks. She said reds and he got rid of them. What's the problem?
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EVILDAN

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Reply with quote  #23 
Reno doesn't like B'Wave.
Okay, so what?
I don't like stuffed cabbage.

I'm not going to eat stuffed cabbage.
Reno isn't going to perform B'Wave.

Now. Wait a minute.....

Yep, see, the world didn't end. No need to argue the faults or merits of this any longer. If you're like me and like B'Wave, perform it. If you don't, then don't perform it.
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arthur stead

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Reply with quote  #24 
Well said, Evil Dan.
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Dave Campbell

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Reply with quote  #25 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Reno
I'm still waiting for someone to reveal the name of the book that Paul's B'Wave version is in.


I just went through all 5 -- by title, it's not obvious [frown]

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RayJ

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Reply with quote  #26 
I believe Paul released it as a packet trick called B'Rilliant. Not in a book that I'm aware.
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Craig Alan

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Reply with quote  #27 
Paul's version of this while good, is not really B'wave.  It makes it a magic trick.  B'wave is not really a magic trick per se.  There should NOT be a count, a change, etc.  It makes it a different type of effect.

Also in regards to "Alice's Revenge"  It seems too direct.  The process of the equivoque adds to the effect and the overall "apparent" impossibility.  Even though it doesn't change the odds, the choices seem to make it more impossible.
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Anthony Vinson

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Reply with quote  #28 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Craig Alan
Paul's version of this while good, is not really B'wave.  It makes it a magic trick.  B'wave is not really a magic trick per se.  There should NOT be a count, a change, etc.  It makes it a different type of effect.

Also in regards to "Alice's Revenge"  It seems too direct.  The process of the equivoque adds to the effect and the overall "apparent" impossibility.  Even though it doesn't change the odds, the choices seem to make it more impossible.


Agree. In re Alice's Revenge, that's why I like, and Bob recommends, performing it as a follow-up to B'Wave. Fits perfectly.

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Bob Farmer

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Reply with quote  #29 
Check out the Magic Friday video above to solve the "too direct" criticism of "Alice's Revenge." Also, I never performed this effect, "directly" as in "name a Queen, look it's gone." That's no good. I did it as an example of the spectator's power of imagination. So I'd have them imagine one of the Queens (they name it). Imagine it with the other three queens in this envelope. Now imagine the back of the card--the ink is beginning to lighten up, then to run, then to vanish completely. Imagine the face of the Queen. The ink is fading, fading, fading, until it's all gone. Let's see how powerful your imagination is--now do the reveal. This way it's the spectator doing the trick and it's much more effective.
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Dave Campbell

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Reply with quote  #30 
Quote:
Originally Posted by RayJ
I believe Paul released it as a packet trick called B'Rilliant. Not in a book that I'm aware.


ok so I should have asked Paul before I did this, but last night I carefully paged through all 6 Paul Gordon books I have. I couldn't find that, and probably wouldn't, as RayJ pointed out.

So I told Paul on a FB message this morning about the thread and the trick and asked if that was referring to a book older than Gold Dust -- he said it was in a book about 25 years ago and he doesn't remember the name.

I told him it'd make a good download 😉

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Bill Guinee

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Reply with quote  #31 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Farmer
A nice followup for a repeat audience is, "Alice's Revenge:"





Help, Bob. Sorry, but I am confused and I don't know this trick. It looks like after an audience member names a Queen, then a bulky wallet that has lots of stuff in it, is opened, four cards are pulled out and the magician shows that the named Queen is missing. If it has to be done like this, it looks weak to me. I would imagine that any lay audience would just assume that I have four sets of Queens in my wallet with a different Queen missing in each one. That I simply pulled out the set appropriate for the Queen they named. I assume this is not how it is done, but can you perform it in such a way that the audience wouldn't assume this? What am I missing?
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Bob Farmer

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Reply with quote  #32 
Bill: You are right to think this, but this is not how the trick works. The magician in the video keeps all his packet tricks in the wallet. "Alice's Revenge" does not require a bulky wallet! The four Queens are in a small envelope on the table before any Queen is named, so on the revelation it's clear that there are just four cards in the envelope and no more. 
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Reno

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Reply with quote  #33 
I recently unearthed a booklet that I had buried in my stack of "stuff," and had all but forgotten. The author is David Eldridge, and the title of the booklet is "Mind Control, A Study of Equivoque or The Magician's Choice Force (2001)." He spends ten pages addressing B'Wave and has some excellent advice that I think is well thought out. The following is just a small excerpt: "The word Remove can be used to our advantage. The basic rule is to never use the word Remove after the spectator has made a choice. Only use it before a selection is made." Also, when using Equivoque, he likes to use the phrase, "The choice is yours," when addressing the spectator/participant, and he thinks it is a "very important thing of which to remind them. It makes them feel more in control of the situation." I hope this has piqued your interest in how to present this iconic magic trick.
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Rudy Tinoco

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Reply with quote  #34 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Reno
I recently unearthed a booklet that I had buried in my stack of "stuff," and had all but forgotten. The author is David Eldridge, and the title of the booklet is "Mind Control, A Study of Equivoque or The Magician's Choice Force (2001)." He spends ten pages addressing B'Wave and has some excellent advice that I think is well thought out. The following is just a small excerpt: "The word Remove can be used to our advantage. The basic rule is to never use the word Remove after the spectator has made a choice. Only use it before a selection is made." Also, when using Equivoque, he likes to use the phrase, "The choice is yours," when addressing the spectator/participant, and he thinks it is a "very important thing of which to remind them. It makes them feel more in control of the situation." I hope this has piqued your interest in how to present this iconic magic trick.


Thanks Reno. This thread led me to purchase this from Penguin Magic. It's on it's way, but I already watched the video that they provide upon purchase.

Max Maven makes this exact point regarding the usage of the word "remove". Really great point that gives a strong sense of freedom of choice.

Thanks for starting the conversation.

I look forward to actually trying B'wave in the real world.

Rudy

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EVILDAN

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Reply with quote  #35 
Rudy you're going to love B'Wave. I perform this at every gig. In fact I have one later today and it's in my grab and go gig bag.

Please let us know your thoughts once you try it in the real world.
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Wayne T

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Reply with quote  #36 
I can see how Alice's Revenge compliments B'Wave, although I don't own Alice's Revenge I actually like it's directness, to me it looks like something you can have in your pocket and quickly do a "name a queen" and then show it vanished. I could see myself doing a "slow play" of B'Wave and ultimately getting to the selected card and then doing a quick wham bam of Alice's Revenge. I really like the contrasts that performing these 2 tricks potentially allows.

Either way it does come down to one's personal and presentation styles.

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Anthony Vinson

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Reply with quote  #37 
Don't rush Alice's Revenge! It's an elegant trick and deserves an elegant presentation. I use a hook that calls up the film Back to the Future, and Marty McFly's photograph slowly fading from view. I say, "Now, take a picture of that Queen with the camera of your mind's eye and watch it develop bit by bit, color by color." Then I reverse the process before the reveal. It really is a stunner.

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Wayne T

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Reply with quote  #38 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anthony Vinson
Don't rush Alice's Revenge! It's an elegant trick and deserves an elegant presentation.
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I certainly can see that, given it doesn't require an equivoque I was just thinking of an alternate presentation for an idea I have. I am looking around to see if I can find an Alice's Revenge packet.

Wayne

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Anthony Vinson

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Reply with quote  #39 
While I'm sure they are available elsewhere, you can get them directly from Bob. 

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Wayne T

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Reply with quote  #40 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anthony Vinson
While I'm sure they are available elsewhere, you can get them directly from Bob. 

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I am exchanging messages with him now. [smile]


*Update* I ordered Alice's Revenge and Bob promptly filled the order everything was received well packaged.

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Bob Farmer

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Reply with quote  #41 
Yes, anyone who wants one can email me at bammomagic@cogeco.ca -- they are $15+$5 postage.
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Bob Farmer

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Reply with quote  #42 
Incidentally, in my book, "The Bammo Gaffus Maximus," I describe a much more advanced version of this effect. The spectator names ANY card (no froce, no Equivoque). I deal through the deck and though the three mates of the named card are there, the named card is now just a double-blank.

No sleights. No rough and smooth. Deck is gaffed but you can easily make it at home from commonly available materials.

For more info, email bammomagic@cogeco.ca
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Socrates

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Reply with quote  #43 
Check out the following version of B'Wave - there is a great deal to be learned from watching this performance:



[wink]
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Anthony Vinson

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Reply with quote  #44 
I agree. Too bad the audience wasn't warmer. Some sort of work conference or training seminar, maybe?

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PressureFan

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Reply with quote  #45 
Worse, magicians.
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RayJ

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Reply with quote  #46 
Maybe they were just sick of having to sit through another 4-King trick?  Sorry, couldn't resist.  [rolleyes]
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Anthony Vinson

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Reply with quote  #47 
Quote:
Originally Posted by RayJ
Maybe they were just sick of having to sit through another 4-King trick?  Sorry, couldn't resist.  [rolleyes]


[rofl]
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magicfish

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Reply with quote  #48 
Anyone here like James Swain's Boxed B'Wave?
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