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Mind Phantom

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Reply with quote  #1 
So like many of you, I am housebound and trying to come up with a decent topic that we can discuss. I came up with this idea, what are some good effects that you do with cards..that you know would fool other magicians ?

Or, effects that you know that would fool you if you were the spectator?

There are two that come to mind and they are:

Mid-Air Card Stab ~ John Kennedy / a dealer item in which I fooled a room full of magicians with.
Mundo ~ Bannon / The first few times I did this I fooled myself with it. From the book Mentalissimo

What say you ? Tricks that are magician foolers, you've gotta know one or two tricks, right?

Rick-                    

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Chi Han

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Reply with quote  #2 
I never really cared or gave much thought to fooling magicians, until one day when I was in a magic convention and the following happened:



(I didn't use the same method that my friend did in the above).

Since then I've really been interested in magician foolers.  I don't know if I really have any good ones though, but I do have a criteria.  I want the magician to be fooled completely.  Not even to suspect let alone detect.  Just get an impossible to backtrack, absolute, that's just impossible sense.  I've found a lot of stuff by Joe Barry works for those purposes, but I'm always chasing new methods hahah.
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RayJ

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Reply with quote  #3 
Any time you use a principle another magician isn't familiar with, you'll likely fool them. When mem-decks became all the rage, magicians were flabbergasted.
Use a trick that relying on the Gilbraith Principle and watch some magicians freak. Another method to fool magicians with is to simply do something unexpected. John Mendoza wrote about being crushed by an ace cutting trick. It bothered him so much he couldn't sleep. When he found the secret all the air left the balloon. He was taken in by something ridiculously simple, yet somethin he would never have expected. Play with expectations, it is one of the lesser talked-about principles of magic.
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Mike Powers

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Reply with quote  #4 
Bob Little used to say that if you (magician) were fooled by a trick it was likely - IT, gaffed cards or magnets. Lot of truth to that.

Also, as RayJ pointed out, mathematical principles you're not familiar with will likely fool you. Although you may "smell" the underlying mathematical nature of the fooler.

M
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Socrates

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Reply with quote  #5 
It is not the mechanics of a trick which fool other magicians, it is the psychological techniques you choose to utilize.  Once you understand how a person thinks, you can take a trick from a beginners book and mislead them with ease... if you wish to see this kind of thing in action take a look at the work of Dani Daortiz, he has some great examples.
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Harry Lorayne

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Reply with quote  #6 
   Just came to mind as I was reading this post --- some decades ago I fooled the heck out of Paul Curry with my OUT OF THIS UN9IVERSE.  
  
        And  you'll find hundreds of magician foolers in my books. You really gotta' start reading the good stuff, guys!!


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Waterman

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Reply with quote  #7 
When I started hanging out with and performing for other local magicians, marked decks were seriously frowned upon by the elders of the group. 

Given that, I crudely marked a red bicycle deck (because the elders would not watch a card trick unless it was performed with the only recognized brand of playing cards that the public could associate with).

My routines were more crude than the decks markings, but all present were complimenting me on how well I was at the psychological force! Others argued that I wasn't using the psychological force, but some form of bottom deal that was virtually invisible. My skills as a card magician reached levels of near immortal status among the local magi. 

If I had a super ego I would have ridden the wave for as long as possible and kept my marked deck secret to myself. Alas...I revealed myself to the experienced card mechanics as a "phony", hoping to that I turned them on to the potential of a marked deck...didn't happen. They ended up despising marked decks even more!
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luigimar

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Reply with quote  #8 
If magicians know principles or tools, they can still be fooled if they don't know they are being used... 

Once I fooled a magician friend with his own deck. I was in a meeting with some magician friends and I was performing an effect. My friend brought out his brand new deck and he was about to open it when I stopped my routine to ask him not to open the deck yet. I finished and then I asked him to open it. He did and I shuffled his deck and fooled him for about 15/20 minutes. He still doesn't know how I did it... 

And I used a one way deck (this deck is a very good deck that many people don't know it is one way) and the Si Stebbins Secret with some of the effects this secret helps you perform... And I think that using his own deck was part of what helped fool my friend.

So as I said, you can know some magician's secrets and tools but if you don't know they are being used, you will fool them badly, or you will be fooled...



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Mike Powers

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Reply with quote  #9 
With a magician or magicians as the audience, you can use their knowledge of technique against them. You can simulate an Elmsley Count or a double undercut etc and lead them down the proverbial garden path. Marlo used to do this a lot. In a lecture he'd say, "Four face down cards" and then do an Elmsley Count. Then he'd say, "No really! And spread them cleanly." This wasn't designed to fool but just to goof around a bit. Then he'd destroy everyone with something involving some secret move that he'd perform imperceptibly. 

M
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RayJ

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Reply with quote  #10 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Powers
With a magician or magicians as the audience, you can use their knowledge of technique against them. You can simulate an Elmsley Count or a double undercut etc and lead them down the proverbial garden path. Marlo used to do this a lot. In a lecture he'd say, "Four face down cards" and then do an Elmsley Count. Then he'd say, "No really! And spread them cleanly." This wasn't designed to fool but just to goof around a bit. Then he'd destroy everyone with something involving some secret move that he'd perform imperceptibly. 

M


One of my favorite Marlo stories is the one he tells about when he worked at the Treasure Chest magic shop.
He had a deck of cards and was stripping cards out of it like you would with a Stripper Deck. He set the pack down to go into the back of the store for a minute and the guy he was showing the deck to eased over to where it laid, picked it up and reversed a card. Try as he might he couldn't pull it as it was a normal pack. Ed watched and laughed from the back.
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Socrates

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Reply with quote  #11 
By fooling I understand you to mean giving the magician the feeling of magic - most of us as magicians cannot experience the magic oftentimes due to our knowledge of methods and techniques.  In order to give your fellow magicians the experience of astonishment once again you have to understand their expectations and play with them - and this is where employing psychology really comes into effect.
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diemaker

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Reply with quote  #12 
Devious by Michael Close from L and L Publishing  on Volume 4 He has four tricks he says are magician foolers: Set 4 (Magician Foolers)

Vernon Would Have Liked This - A very natural and elegant handling of an Ambitious Card effect.

Bedwell Meets Findley - An unusual combination of moves produces a stunning card control.

The Stewart James Prank - A lesson in how to punk your pals.

Never tried any but they all look good.Love the Steward James Prank.
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