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KenTheriot

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Reply with quote  #1 
OK, before I start with this - I want to acknowledge that I am NOT looking to become a "card juggler." I think I understand that difference between card magic and card juggling/cardistry. And my goal is the magic part [smile].

However, there is an obvious intersection there, what with fans and springs. Heck, a lot of this stuff in Tarbell.

Anyway, I have had the devil's own time trying to develop a decent fan of any kind. As a coin guy, I am no stranger to practicing a single move many thousands of times. And yet with cards, this doesn't seem to yield the same kind of success as it does with coins. After 2+ years of regular practice, I still cannot do a pressure fan or decent fan of any kind to save my soul.

Today I saw an ad for something called Cardistry Trainers. 

Would these be of any use for learning card flourishes and/or fans, springs etc?


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Anthony Vinson

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Reply with quote  #2 
Ken, unless I am mistaken, cardistry trainers are poker-sized plastic blocks that simulate the packets of cards manipulated during cardistry-type demonstrations. The idea is to get used to handling blocks of cards without spilling, and the trainers claim to facilitate this somehow. They may work, but I am skeptical. Perhaps they assist in building finger strength?

Fans are another matter. Oftentimes the condition of your cards make all the difference. Newer decks are easier to fan, but also prone to slipperiness that can result in spills. For me the best decks for fanning are those that have been slightly broken in. Pressure fans are tough. Have you tried finger fans and/or thumb fans? Those tend to be much easier. It's really a matter of finding the right feel. I assume you've tracked down sources in books and online - None of those have been helpful? Have you tried starting with half a deck? A third of a deck? If you can explain where you getting hung up I am certain someone here on the forum can provide some pointers.

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KenTheriot

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Reply with quote  #3 
Aha! that makes sense. OK, thanks. I've primarily worked with full decks, but over these past 2 years, it's been every main kind of deck in just about every condition from new to very broken down.

I really feel like I Need to be able to do a fan that shows every card in the deck (or close to it), which is what it seems the pressure fan is able to do. I've ruined a few dozen decks practicing the pressure fan. It's gotten better (by which I at least don drop or tear cards by the end of trying one fan, basically). But it really isn't even close to acceptable.

I do use a thumb fan (which is what I mean by a 2-handed fan), and it sometimes even looks sort of decent. But still not those perfect fans that so many magicians seem to be able to do. I use them in tricks like Unshuffled, where you are doing it as a way to show that the cards are mixed up and are not some special deck, but also as an excuse to turn the deck around. My point is that there is a utility use for the fan, and as such it doesn't really need to be perfect. But I really would like to do those perfect (or very close to it) fans that most magicians seem to be able to do with no effort whatever. 

Yes, I've consulted several sources, starting with Mark Wilson's Course and Card college a few years ago, then adding Jeff McBride's Art of Card Manipulation, Card Fanning Magic (World Famous Magic) and several other sources. It just doesn't seem to be happening to me.
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luigimar

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Reply with quote  #4 
Yes, Anthony is right. Those trainers are blocks of plastic or metal to "help" you get used to using blocks of cards. They will not help you with your card fans. Here are some examples: 

IMG_6042.jpg 

or these: 

ddtrainer.jpg 






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Harry Lorayne

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Reply with quote  #5 
I have a bunch of lists that I've kept for decades.   One of them is titled "Stupid Ideas In Card Magic" The "trainers" I've just heard about and seen here  just went to the top of that list!!
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Anthony Vinson

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Reply with quote  #6 
Harry, laughing out loud here. [rofl] Man, would I ever love a peek at that list!
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KenTheriot

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Reply with quote  #7 
Thanks everyone. I get the idea now [smile]. It is really the fans that I'm after, so I can see that these things would do nothing for that.
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Anthony Vinson

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Reply with quote  #8 
Ken, a properly executed finger or thumb fan will fit the bill for what you want to accomplish. Wish I could offer some specific help... There are quite a few folks offering online coaching and lessons - Would it be worth it to pursue that avenue? At any rate, best of luck!

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KenTheriot

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Reply with quote  #9 
Anthony,

Here is about the best I can do right now. Any tips?



Cheers!
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Mind Phantom

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Reply with quote  #10 
In my 20's I went thru the Chavez College Of Magic home study course ( I didn't finish it ) & learned many different card fans including the pressure fan and how to close it with the same hand.

I found there website via Google. Sorry, I cant seem to link it for you for some odd reason.

Just work with it and work with it and in time you'll get it.

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luigimar

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Reply with quote  #11 
Here is the link Logan is talking about...

http://chavezcollegeofmagic.com/index.html




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luigimar

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Reply with quote  #12 
Today I was watching Gabi Pareras Live Lecture on Grupo Kaps and he was talking about the ribbon spread. He said you need to put some pressure on the cards while you are spreading them on the table/close-up mat and if you think a little about it, a fan is also an extension of cards, but in a different shape and size. You also need to put some pressure on the cards while you are spreading them. Hold them tightly with one hand while you use the thumb of the other hand to put some pressure on the cards while spreading them. Maybe that could help a little... 
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EVILDAN

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Reply with quote  #13 
I don't think cardistry trainers are a stupid idea at all.
They're right in line with the Memory Pegs I have for sale. Buy these along with one of Harry's memory books and you'll be able to remember everything in no time at all.
pegs.jpg 

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Harry Lorayne

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Reply with quote  #14 
     Funny.
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Anthony Vinson

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Reply with quote  #15 
Ken, sorry for the delay. I agree with Blathermist: There's nothing wrong with your fan. Is it "perfect"? No. Is it perfectly acceptable? Absolutely! Methinks thou may have developed some idealized card fan in the mirror of your mind, and while it's quite true that some folks make fans that look damn near manufactured, most fans look remarkably like yours. Bear in mind that the purpose of the fan, in addition to showing that we have far too much free time on our hands, is to display the cards prior to a trick. Yours does just that.

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KenTheriot

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Reply with quote  #16 
Thanks Luigimar - Yeah I took a look at that yesterday via Google. Hard to evaluate it because I couldn't see any snippets or samples of the course material. Unless I wasn't looking in the right pace?

Dan - Just LOL. that is all :-P.

Thanks AV and Blathermist! I'll take that :-). 

BTW, one thing that got me back into wanting to improve my fanning - especially to do a pressure fan, was that on P&T Fool Us recently, Penn did a trick where he was out on the street broadcasting live into the theater and had to do a fan that showed every card in the deck. That was key. So I thought "I really should be able to do that."

Doing the thumb-fan, I can never get it big enough to show every card in the deck. My sad pressure fan (much too pathetic to even be considered "good enough" seems to be the only way to a large enough fan to begin to approach showing every card. But I guess until I have a trick I REALLY want to do that involves the need for showing all the cards :-P.

Thanks all!

Dan - How about and instant natural palm?

Natural-Palm-Gag.jpg 

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