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Buffalo McKinley

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Reply with quote  #1 
Hello!

When performing the Charlier Shuffle, how do you manage to get the cards in the original order from top to bottom?

I understand that you are essentially cutting the cards with the Charlier Shuffle, but after one shuffle your top card is in the middle of the deck.  How do you get the bottom half of the deck to the top again?  Do you maintain some kind of break over the top card as you perform the Charlier Shuffle so you don't lose the position of the top card?

Thanks!

-Buffalo
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chris w

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Reply with quote  #2 
It's often used with cyclical arrangements, where it doesn't matter if the deck is cut.

If you need the deck back in its original order, start with a card that's easy to cut to on top or bottom. If you catch my drift.
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Anthony Vinson

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Reply with quote  #3 
Quote:
Originally Posted by chris w
It's often used with cyclical arrangements, where it doesn't matter if the deck is cut.

If you need the deck back in its original order, start with a card that's easy to cut to on top or bottom. If you catch my drift.


He's trying not to crimp your style! [biggrin]

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chris w

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Nor did I mean to be a little short.
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Harry Lorayne

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   I stopped using the Charlier Shuffle - which I'd used for decades when I devised my Utility Mixer. That's much better, makes it look as if the deck is being shuffled, not just cut - and deck stays in original order. It's definitely one of my most cherished utility item - and I use it in probably about 95% of the effects/routines I do (as do many who've learned it from my books). 
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Mbreggar

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Harry, do you recommend your Utility Mixer with a full deck? Or is it primarily used for packets?
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luvisi

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Reply with quote  #7 
If you push a packet from the bottom first, it is relatively easy to hide placing your right little finger in between the original top and bottom cards.

Also, jogs work with horizontal shuffles just as well as with vertical. In fact, the jog as originally published by Reginald Scot was described with a horizontal shuffle.

Andru
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rready

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Reply with quote  #8 
Bob Farmer has a great small packet shuffle that keeps the packet in order.
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Harry Lorayne

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"Harry, do you recommend your Utility Mixer with a full deck? Or is it primarily used for packets?"     Good question, Mbreggar.
     
      I occasionally use my Utility Mixer with a full deck, but mostly for packets. (I do it two/three times when doing my Ten-Card Poker Deal and my A Much Better Chance, for example.) I even use it when I'm apparently mixing three cards. I've written about both in a couple of books
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Buffalo McKinley

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Reply with quote  #10 
Quote:
Originally Posted by luvisi
If you push a packet from the bottom first, it is relatively easy to hide placing your right little finger in between the original top and bottom cards.

Also, jogs work with horizontal shuffles just as well as with vertical. In fact, the jog as originally published by Reginald Scot was described with a horizontal shuffle.

Andru



Thanks for the tip, Andru!

-Buffalo
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RayJ

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Reply with quote  #11 
While I don't use it, the Charlier shuffle is very effective when done the way you see Rudy use it in several of his videos.  His attitude of "just giving the cards a quick mix" is perfect.  It is disarming.  Nobody will try to follow the packets when you are so casual about it.  

Many times you read or hear in a video the statement "Don't make a move out of it".  That same idea or concept should be used for all of your magic.  All of your mechanics.  Any time you DO make a move out of something you invite suspicion, you invite attention at the worst possible time.  So acting natural applies here as well.  Just give the cards a mix why dontcha?
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Buffalo McKinley

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Reply with quote  #12 
Quote:
Originally Posted by RayJ
While I don't use it, the Charlier shuffle is very effective when done the way you see Rudy use it in several of his videos.  His attitude of "just giving the cards a quick mix" is perfect.  It is disarming.  Nobody will try to follow the packets when you are so casual about it.  

Many times you read or hear in a video the statement "Don't make a move out of it".  That same idea or concept should be used for all of your magic.  All of your mechanics.  Any time you DO make a move out of something you invite suspicion, you invite attention at the worst possible time.  So acting natural applies here as well.  Just give the cards a mix why dontcha?



Thanks, Ray!

Great advice, as usual.

Do you have a link for any of the videos?

-Buffalo
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Harry Lorayne

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Reply with quote  #13 

   Why do I have the feeling that most here don't know my Utility Mixer?  (Certainly one of the most utilitarian items I've come up with.)
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Mbreggar

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Reply with quote  #14 
Per Mr Lorayne: “I occasionally use my Utility Mixer with a full deck, but mostly for packets. (I do it two/three times when doing my Ten-Card Poker Deal and my A Much Better Chance, for example.) I even use it when I'm apparently mixing three cards. I've written about both in a couple of books”

here‘s my two cents ...

I use Harry’s Utility Mixer with small packets up to a half deck. For instance, Some of my tricks begin with a 13 card setup on top. I’ll ask a volunteer to cut the deck and hand me the top half. They keep the bottom half. Then ask them to really give the cards a good mixing. They can shuffle, cut, whatever, just mix up the cards. With my half (with the set up on top), i’ll first overhand shuffle the bottom five or six cards, then immediately go into the Utility Mixer. This gives the appearance of different types of shuffles they helper can do. Of course, they can shuffle the cards anyway they want because you reassemble the deck with your half on top. The set up is untouched! Yes, a Charlier could be used here too, but I think the U.M. looks fairer. The reality, of course, is 5he audience will be paying attention to how well your assistant shuffles! Something you should definitely call attention to.

i also use Harry’s U.M. when “mixing” a set of ESP cards. Easy to do with a 25 card deck.

For a full deck, I will occasionally use a Charlier. At best, it looks sloppy, at worst, it looks “gimmicky.” You need to avoid the latter and try not to look too sloppy unless you are emulating Albert Goshman!
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RayJ

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Reply with quote  #15 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Buffalo McKinley



Thanks, Ray!

Great advice, as usual.

Do you have a link for any of the videos?

-Buffalo


If Rudy is reading this, maybe he can remember which tricks, but I know he used it for several or at least two that were on the Apocalypse segments.

If not, I'll look them up when I have time.
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Gareth

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Reply with quote  #16 
Chris W posted this after a Saturday session in Feb last year

https://www.themagiciansforum.com/post/show_single_post?pid=1307848259&postcount=13&forum=532444

It was Francis Carlyle's 'The Two Black Aces Trick'. First item in Roger Pierre's The Magic of Francis Carlyle. The Charlier can be a fooler.

(thanks for the ego boost Chris)
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Robin Dawes

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Reply with quote  #17 
Quote:
Originally Posted by rready
Bob Farmer has a great small packet shuffle that keeps the packet in order.


Can you give a source for that?  I'd like to take a look!

Thanks

Robin
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chris w

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Reply with quote  #18 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gareth
Chris W posted this after a Saturday session in Feb last year

https://www.themagiciansforum.com/post/show_single_post?pid=1307848259&postcount=13&forum=532444

It was Francis Carlyle's 'The Two Black Aces Trick'. First item in Roger Pierre's The Magic of Francis Carlyle. The Charlier can be a fooler.

(thanks for the ego boost Chris)


Can't fault a man for celebrating past victories (you totally took me in with that Carlyle trick), but the Charlier cut (one-handed) is different than the two-handed Charlier shuffle Buffalo is asking about. [tongue]
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Gareth

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Reply with quote  #19 
Ha, ‘Pride comes before a fall’ or if you are too self-important or conceited something will happen to make you look foolish. Lesson learnt.....again. 😳
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chris w

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Reply with quote  #20 
I hope it was clear that I meant that only in a spirit of fun, Gareth!
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Gareth

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Reply with quote  #21 
Absolutely Chris, all good my friend😄
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Paco Nagata

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Reply with quote  #22 
That's one of the little masterpiece of card magic techniques, because of its simplicity and effectiveness.
The secret of its veracity lies in the messy impression that it causes while the magician shows it clearly.
I have used it all my life.
Tamariz uses it every time he performs "Total Coincidence."

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