Sign up Latest Topics Chat
 
 
 


Reply
  Author   Comment  
Knowcows

Member
Registered:
Posts: 12
Reply with quote  #1 
Hi Everyone,

I’m asking out to anyone if they know off any published methods to put a crimp in a card in front of the spectator. I am familiar with Martin Nash’s infinity method but looking to see if there is anything else out there.

Thanks

John
0
Anthony Vinson

Avatar / Picture

Honored Member
Registered:
Posts: 3,178
Reply with quote  #2 
Any particular kind of crimp? I know that Giobbi has a chapter on crimps in Card College 2. 

Av
0
RayJ

Avatar / Picture

Honored Member
Registered:
Posts: 3,131
Reply with quote  #3 
If you can, go to conjuringarchive.com and search 'breather'.  Apparently Bob King, in 'More Magician Foolers' 1990 had a breather where the work can be put in on the fly.  The concept of openly adding a breather crimp under the guise of "taking a bend out of it" is cheeky.  I like it.

There is a book called 'A Book in English', 2011, creator unknown, where there is an impromptu breather described apparently.

Then Tom Gagnon has a book, Gagnon Unfiltered, 2019 where it sounds like he discusses putting in the work in the progress of a trick.  Not 100% certain on that.

Here's my take on it.  First, wondering why you want the crimp in the selection.  Is there a specific reason and/or a reason why using a traditional breather cannot get you where you want to go?


If you are meaning a crimp that functions as a breather, that is one thing.  If you are simply meaning a way to be able to locate the card by sight, that is another.

If you want to be able to cut to it, then it is possible to create a "breather-style" crimp by merely pressing down hard on the center of the card.  Hard enough to create a "dimple".  This can be done when handling the card, displaying it to the audience.  I haven't confirmed it and have no cards handy at the moment (gasp!), but I'm pretty sure you may put the work in face-up or face-down in order to be able to cut it to the top or the bottom as desired.  It works that way with a typical breather.

The other crimp is not going to yield a location by cutting ability, but you will be able to see it later on and then cut to it.  That crimp is probably going to be on a corner.  In fact, you can do both corners, simultaneously by holding the card at the corners by opposite hands.  It doesn't take much, particularly if you are using a new deck with little wear.

One of my favorites is to not crimp the card, but merely scratch the edge with a fingernail.  This creates a mark, with the scratched portion appearing much whiter than the rest of the edge.  The card will literally stick out like a sore thumb.
When you are done, just a few rubs and the mark goes away.

Edit:  By the way, some recommend having an edge mark on your breather so that in the event it doesn't work for some reason, you can still find it.  Then after you do find it, touch up the work on it so that it will work the next time you need it.  Your initial bends will be reduced during ordinary handling.


0
Jack Deschain

Inner Circle
Registered:
Posts: 28
Reply with quote  #4 
There are several methods and styles scattered in the Darwin Ortiz books. End crimps, corner crimps, etc. Some are single card and some are packets or even half a deck.

I'm sure a search on the Denis Behr conjuring archive will provide lots of other sources.

Are you looking for anything more specific?
0
Mbreggar

Avatar / Picture

Inner Circle
Registered:
Posts: 709
Reply with quote  #5 
"Book in English" is Woody Aragon's book. He may tip the method used by Ramon Rioboo (I think they are close). Rioboo uses crimps a lot check out his book Thinking the Impossible. In fact, the in-front-of-a-spectator-crimp may be taught there.

If I want to go this route, I use a slight modification from the Giobbi chapter mentioned by AV above: I use an injog shuffle. When I go to square things up and "lever" off the in-jogged card, I press the corner of that card sharply nanosecond before I push it into the deck to square. Now, I have a crimp in the lower right corner (usually) of the card. It may not be as clean as other crimps, but it gets the job done.

0
Knowcows

Member
Registered:
Posts: 12
Reply with quote  #6 
Hi guys,

Thanks for the quick info. Just to give you some background. I have a routines I do with a breather crimp but I also don’t always use my own cards so I was looking to research were I could add the crimp on the fly. I’m not a big fan of a corner crimp because I think it sticks out to much and I’ve ruined too many cards in the past doing a corner crimp.

Thanks for the info. Let me know if you need more specifics.
0
Knowcows

Member
Registered:
Posts: 12
Reply with quote  #7 
A little more background I was never a big fan of crimps or gaffs. Still not a fan of gaffs but that’s a topic for another day. Like I said I was never a big fan of crimps until I read Jason England’s method and saw him on video do it. Opened up a lot of possibilities.

0
DJ

Inner Circle
Registered:
Posts: 326
Reply with quote  #8 
If I remember correctly there was a breather in Card Devilry by Hartman called a Belly Breather?  It is easy to put in the work on the fly.  Reminded me  a bit of the Infinity Crimp.  Any reason why you are looking for other options besides the Infinity Crimp?  Anything you didn't like about it? 
__________________
Dan
0
luigimar

Avatar / Picture

Honored Member - Moderator
Registered:
Posts: 1,539
Reply with quote  #9 
In his book, Scams and Fantasies with Cards, Darwin Ortiz has an effect, Combination Cull, where he uses a corner crimp. He creates it on the fly with his thumb. When I do this effect, I do it with my left pinky. I almost "fold" the card with my pinky (so the crimp doesn't disappear in the middle of the effect) while the spectators are busy doing things with the deck. If you have the book, look for the second effect and you will understand what I'm saying. 
__________________
Luigimar
Magic is Within...
0
Mike Powers

Avatar / Picture

Honored Member
Registered:
Posts: 2,340
Reply with quote  #10 
Thomas Kracker who is a member here has a nice on-the-fly crimp that I published in my Card Corner Column in July 2016. If memory serves, I explained how to openly create a breather crimp in the moves section on my site: http://www.mallofmagic.com/themoves  (password marlo7d). I also described a Marlo action crimp that occurs during an overhand shuffle in "Cardial Infraction" from TESSERACT p. 74


0
Jack Deschain

Inner Circle
Registered:
Posts: 28
Reply with quote  #11 
Knowcows,
I get what you are saying about not being a fan of a corner crimp. Honestly, I used to despise them myself. I just couldn't believe it wasn't obvious to anyone who was paying attention. Now I love most crimps and don't hesitate to use them when the situation is right.

I think of it like a thumb tip. It might seem like a neon sign that blinks, "Here is the secret!" But if you put in subtle work and position the deck right it won't even cross their minds. Just my two cents 😉
0
Lucas Maillard

Avatar / Picture

Inner Circle
Registered:
Posts: 154
Reply with quote  #12 
Quote:
Originally Posted by DJ
If I remember correctly there was a breather in Card Devilry by Hartman called a Belly Breather?  It is easy to put in the work on the fly.  Reminded me  a bit of the Infinity Crimp.  Any reason why you are looking for other options besides the Infinity Crimp?  Anything you didn't like about it? 


DJ, you're correct. This can be found at page 18 of Card Devilry. It's called Belly Crimp and is part of the trick "Pull Pull - Leg and wool". It's basically the first action of a mercury fold.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Luigimar
In his book, Scams and Fantasies with Cards, Darwin Ortiz has an effect, Combination Cull, where he uses a corner crimp. He creates it on the fly with his thumb.


Yes, it can also be found in Lessons in Card Mastery by the same author.

My "go-to" crimp however can be found in Marlo without Tears, p.26 and is called "For Crimp's Sake".
It puts a dog hear on the inner left corner of the card while apparently squaring the deck.

Hope this helps.

L.
0
Tom Kracker

Avatar / Picture

Inner Circle
Registered:
Posts: 427
Reply with quote  #13 
As Mike Powers mentioned above, https://www.themagiciansforum.com/post/spread-crimp-control-9771115 here's the Spread Crimp Control.  The Linking Ring has better pictures than this does, but at least you can see the idea here.  I use it all the time.  Borrowed, shuffled deck.  Sometimes it's part of the main effect, sometimes, I use it as an "out".
Tom

__________________
"How can I help you do your job better?"
-T. Kracker
0
jim ferguson

Inner Circle
Registered:
Posts: 271
Reply with quote  #14 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Knowcows
I’m not a big fan of a corner crimp because I think it sticks out to much and I’ve ruined too many cards in the past doing a corner crimp.



I've mentioned this on here before - the card shouldn't get ruined, or even damaged, when using a corner crimp. As a general rule - if the crimp leaves an actual crease in the card, then it has probably been done too heavy handed in the first place.

I am unsure what you mean by the corner crimp sticking out too much. When in use, it should essentially be invisible to the spectators.


Jim


0
Tom Kracker

Avatar / Picture

Inner Circle
Registered:
Posts: 427
Reply with quote  #15 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jim ferguson

Quote:
Originally Posted by Knowcows
Hi guys,

 I’m not a big fan of a corner crimp because I think it sticks out to much and I’ve ruined too many cards in the past doing a corner crimp.


I've mentioned this on here before - the card shouldn't get ruined, or even damaged, when using a corner crimp. As a general rule - if the crimp leaves an actual crease in the card, then it has probably been done too heavy handed in the first place.

I am unsure what you mean by the corner crimp sticking out too much. When in use, it should essentially be invisible to the spectators.


Jim



I agree with Jim.  The card should never be creased or so heavy of a crimp that it's permanently damaged.  Sometimes I do put heavy crimps, but they can always be removed via the handling I described.  I even do this with borrowed decks, and they cannot tell anything has happened, even when I hand the deck back to them.  When I've got good lighting, I use much smaller crimps, but in darker settings (sometimes after drinking...), I make them bigger, just to be sure I can grab it when needed.  I even let them shuffle the cards, and they never see it.

Tom


__________________
"How can I help you do your job better?"
-T. Kracker
0
Mike Powers

Avatar / Picture

Honored Member
Registered:
Posts: 2,340
Reply with quote  #16 
Definitely - crimp in then crimp out. There should be no evidence remaining. It's not difficult to remove "the work."

M
0
John Cowne

Inner Circle
Registered:
Posts: 346
Reply with quote  #17 
Ray: ’One of my favorites is to not crimp the card, but merely scratch the edge with a fingernail.  This creates a mark, with the scratched portion appearing much whiter than the rest of the edge.  The card will literally stick out like a sore thumb.
When you are done, just a few rubs and the mark goes away’.

Tried this one out; it works a treat! Many thanks, Ray. I wonder if anyone has compiled as many ‘marking systems’ that have been created in the known magic world. Would such a work tally up into the hundreds?
0
Tom Kracker

Avatar / Picture

Inner Circle
Registered:
Posts: 427
Reply with quote  #18 
I love using nail-nicks.

I once was teaching my college magic club (Kalamazoo Magic Society, KMS) the routine where you have 4 cards.  CHSD and using cards where you can see the pip's directions...  3C, 7H, 8S, 10D (or whatever cards you feel like using that fit this criteria).  The spectator would rotate one of them end-for-end, then close them together and flip them face down.  You  reveal their card, a-la-your-favorite-method.  Of course the 10D, there is no obvious difference, but it's very basic (basically like the Reversed Court Card by Jordan in Jean Hugard's Encyclopedia of Card Tricks, except all the decks I had didn't have the features as described).

Another version I do would do uses the borders thickness of some slightly offset-printed cards sometimes even the faces were offset, based on Lorayne and Steranko idea (at least, that's how I learned of it...)  (these make an awesome one-way deck, if you can find one).

Another idea I did was actually scratch off the eye dots of court cards with a razor blade on one end of 4 court cards i.e. all queens, or all jacks).  This was my independently thought of idea.

But at this one KMS meeting, one of the students handed me 4 random cards, and said, "here, do it with these cards".  I promptly held them together, nail nicked all four cards on one end, and proceeded with the routine.  At the end, I removed the nicks, and never actually taught them that method.  I taught them the other methods, but kept the nail nicks for myself.

Tom

__________________
"How can I help you do your job better?"
-T. Kracker
0
RayJ

Avatar / Picture

Honored Member
Registered:
Posts: 3,131
Reply with quote  #19 
Quote:
Originally Posted by John Cowne
Ray: ’One of my favorites is to not crimp the card, but merely scratch the edge with a fingernail.  This creates a mark, with the scratched portion appearing much whiter than the rest of the edge.  The card will literally stick out like a sore thumb.
When you are done, just a few rubs and the mark goes away’.

Tried this one out; it works a treat! Many thanks, Ray. I wonder if anyone has compiled as many ‘marking systems’ that have been created in the known magic world. Would such a work tally up into the hundreds?


Yeah, it is a seemingly hidden gem.  I learned it so long ago I forget from where.  But it works best with borrowed decks which are generally grubby.  The nick or scratch really stands out then.

Another use for it is to edge mark your breather card.  Just in the event you lose the bend and can't cut to it.  Corner crimp is fine too.
0
Magic Harry

Inner Circle
Registered:
Posts: 255
Reply with quote  #20 
If it is only being able to identify the card location by sight and doesn't have to be a crimp there is a method I've learned.
It's better with a used deck of cards where the edges are no longer pristine white. Scrape your thumb nail down the edge of the selected card and then it will stand out to you when placed back in the deck and then can be shuffled even by the spectator without losing the ability to spot it.

Magic Harry 

__________________
Harry Damareck
0
RayJ

Avatar / Picture

Honored Member
Registered:
Posts: 3,131
Reply with quote  #21 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Magic Harry
If it is only being able to identify the card location by sight and doesn't have to be a crimp there is a method I've learned.
It's better with a used deck of cards where the edges are no longer pristine white. Scrape your thumb nail down the edge of the selected card and then it will stand out to you when placed back in the deck and then can be shuffled even by the spectator without losing the ability to spot it.

Magic Harry 


That's what we were discussing.  See my post regarding this.
0
Mike Powers

Avatar / Picture

Honored Member
Registered:
Posts: 2,340
Reply with quote  #22 
Bruce Bernstein really "nailed" me with a nail nick long ago. He had me shuffle MY deck and cut it into three piles. He asked which pile I wanted, A, B or C (left to right). I said "C." He pointed at the pile with his index finger which allowed his thumbnail to put the work into the top card as he said, "This pile?" It seemed natural enough and I had no idea the card I looked at was now marked with a nail nick. He had me shuffle and then found my card by a method I don't recall. He could see exactly where it was in the deck and used that info to blow my mind. I had no idea.

Try that on a fellow magi. You'll likely fool someone badly.

M
0
chris w

Avatar / Picture

Inner Circle
Registered:
Posts: 558
Reply with quote  #23 
That devious use of the nail nick sounds a lot like something I remember seeing in The Greater Artful Dodges of Eddie Fields, Mike. I don't have the book anymore (foolish younger me!), so can't look up the exact reference.

Edit to add: It was "Tripartite."
0
Mike Powers

Avatar / Picture

Honored Member
Registered:
Posts: 2,340
Reply with quote  #24 
Could easily have been an Eddie Fields idea.

M
0
Chris Karim

Inner Circle
Registered:
Posts: 25
Reply with quote  #25 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Powers
Bruce Bernstein really "nailed" me with a nail nick long ago. He had me shuffle MY deck and cut it into three piles. He asked which pile I wanted, A, B or C (left to right). I said "C." He pointed at the pile with his index finger which allowed his thumbnail to put the work into the top card as he said, "This pile?" It seemed natural enough and I had no idea the card I looked at was now marked with a nail nick. He had me shuffle and then found my card by a method I don't recall. He could see exactly where it was in the deck and used that info to blow my mind. I had no idea.

Try that on a fellow magi. You'll likely fool someone badly.

M


In Unreal, Berstein goes over an effect with a nick.  I immediately incorporated it into my toolset and it has been very nice.

That being said, I think the basic putting a crimp into a card in real time I use the most is just a variation of the one from Greater Magic.  It's on pages 46-47 (my copy is Eighth Impression, Revised Edition, 1947 copyright, so it is an old book and newer editions may have it on a different page).
0
RayJ

Avatar / Picture

Honored Member
Registered:
Posts: 3,131
Reply with quote  #26 
Ben Erens 1937 'Encyclopedia of Card Tricks', Miracle Card Control had a nail nick used as a card was replaced into a fan.
0
EricS

Avatar / Picture

Inner Circle
Registered:
Posts: 64
Reply with quote  #27 
Interesting thoughts on crimps and their uses.

In regards to getting a crimp in front of a spectator, here's my thoughts.

I've been able to get a breather crimp right at the table. I will usually do one or two tricks that don't need it first. Then in between things engage the spectators in conversation while cutting/spreading/minor flourishing of the cards. While still in conversation I pick up a card from the deck (or a specific one that I want to use that I controlled to the top) and "play with/handle" it between my fingers performing the crimp action. Place the card back on/in the deck and shuffle/cut it several times.   Haven't ever been called out doing it this way.

The key in my mind is the distraction of the conversation and NOT bringing direct attention to my hands or the cards in any way. I don't make the cuts/shuffles before and after the crimp very showy or do anything to draw undue attention to what I am actually doing.

Just my random musings in the subject.

__________________
Eric
_______________________

“I wish it need not have happened in my time,” said Frodo.
“So do I,” said Gandalf, “and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us.” -Tolkien, The Fellowship of the Ring
0
Rudy Tinoco

Avatar / Picture

Founding Member
Registered:
Posts: 4,824
Reply with quote  #28 
Man, I'm so glad that EricS bumped this thread. So much gold in here! And I almost missed it all!

Rudy

__________________
www.youtube.com/themagiciansforum
http://www.facebook.com/themagiciansforum
0
Mike Powers

Avatar / Picture

Honored Member
Registered:
Posts: 2,340
Reply with quote  #29 
EricS - I'm not sure what technique you're using to create the breather. You don't need to drag fingers from center etc. If you just hold the card at diagonally opposite corners with two fingers underneath and thumbs on top, you can simply push downward with the thumbs once. Try it. It's especially good with a FD card in creating a bottom cutting breather. There's no hint that you're doing anything.

Mike
0
EricS

Avatar / Picture

Inner Circle
Registered:
Posts: 64
Reply with quote  #30 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Powers
You don't need to drag fingers from center etc. If you just hold the card at diagonally opposite corners with two fingers underneath and thumbs on top, you can simply push downward with the thumbs once. Try it. It's especially good with a FD card in creating a bottom cutting breather. There's no hint that you're doing anything.


Like the thoughts Mike. I've been playing with it too many years to remember that I had to actually have a conversation with my wife while playing with a card in my hands and had to look down to see how I do it! It appears that over the years it has evolved to a more minimal technique like you describe with working at the corners. Based on what you said though, I think I can get it even more so and have it even more "hidden".

Just a few rambling thoughts on the matter. [smile]

__________________
Eric
_______________________

“I wish it need not have happened in my time,” said Frodo.
“So do I,” said Gandalf, “and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us.” -Tolkien, The Fellowship of the Ring
0
K

Member
Registered:
Posts: 7
Reply with quote  #31 

Quick question: what's the difference between a crimp and a breather?

If I understand correctly, the breather is in the middle, the crimp in the corner?

Indeed, the breather is such a huge add on to any deck! 

I always have the 9D as an inverted breather, but to create a breather "on the fly", I just press my thumb on the middle of the card, in between the index and Major (with the card in between of course)
don't even need to slide it. 

Just press once, then I "unbend" slightly (otherwise it's too obvious - I use my thumb and pinky on the sides and index in the middle - inverted movement) - (dunno if I'm clear here...).

Takes less than a split second and can even be done while showing the card selected.


For the crimp, I just injog the card a bit with my thumb and do the work with the pinky (just like I would do a pinky break, but I bend the corner slightly instead of keeping the break).


One day (before Covid), I was in a bar and was asked to perform a trick where my friend could take a card himself and put it back himself, without me touching the deck.... (damn challenge, but I love them)

Asked my friend to take a card anywhere from the middle of the deck, look at it, put it back on top, and cut the deck as many time as he wanted until he was satisfied...

Took the deck before to show what I expected of him, did a breather on the card (without showing him the face of it) did the steps I instructed and did a few cuts to leave the breather on the bottom, then put the deck on the counter for him do "do the steps' while I had my back turned. 

All it takes is a cut or two, and sometimes, the spectator cuts himself exactly where I want!
Then can do the reveal you want, as the card is on top already (or bottom, depending on how you do your breather)...

Easy and Devious but a good fooler none the less I think.

 

@Mike Powers, Never really held it diagonally, Is it better?

0
Previous Topic | Next Topic
Print
Reply

Quick Navigation:

Easily create a Forum Website with Website Toolbox.