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Peter X

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Reply with quote  #1 
Hello TMF,
I am here to ask you for your input and take a survey. I made some customized card clips (picture shown below) and I wanted to know what you think. I am still working to have different color options and style options. How much would you pay for something like this?

Also, do you use card clips, or card boxes, or leather cases? What do you put your deck of cards in?

I appreciate your input. I just started my website and I am passionate about magic, cards and making things. So making customized accessories for magic is something I enjoy. Thinking of making customized wooden wands too maybe.

Thank you in advanced for your feedback.

Take care.

CardClip copy.jpg 

-Peter X


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Robin Dawes

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I mostly use plain stainless steel card clips.  I also use a nice leather case made by Antony Gerard.

If you provide a bit more info about the materials used in the clip in the photo, that will help people tell you how much they would pay for it.  Perhaps you could also describe the degree of customization.  Can the buyer have their own initials in place of your logo?
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Peter X

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robin Dawes
I mostly use plain stainless steel card clips.  I also use a nice leather case made by Antony Gerard.

If you provide a bit more info about the materials used in the clip in the photo, that will help people tell you how much they would pay for it.  Perhaps you could also describe the degree of customization.  Can the buyer have their own initials in place of your logo?


Yes, you can have anything you want on the clips, any color clip and the logo can be in color (one color only). The card clips are steel and wrapped with faux leather. I should post some more examples so you know what can be done.

Which leather case do you use? I know Antony has many options.

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RayJ

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter X


Yes, you can have anything you want on the clips, any color clip and the logo can be in color (one color only). The card clips are aluminum and wrapped with faux leather. I should post some more examples so you know what can be done.

Which leather case do you use? I know Antony has many options.


I looked at the photo of your clip and it appears that the way they are made they put pressure on the case, which is good.

Some clips are pretty much worthless because of the way they are made.  They might protect the deck from getting dinged up, but since they don't really squeeze the deck, they don't keep the cards flat at all.

Yours seem to have the "spine" of the clip bent in the right manner in which to allow for the clip to hold the deck firmly.  If that is the case, you should mention it in your ad copy.

I purchased a stainless steel clip years ago and was extremely disappointed. Like I said, it may protect the card case from wear, it does nothing for the cards within.

Your clip is very attractive and the fact that it can be personalized is a plus.
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Matt G

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Reply with quote  #5 
I'm pretty new to magic but in the ~8 months I've been doing it (and have been dabbling in cardistry a bit longer), a Porper Card Clip has been one of my best investments. The cards last so much longer despite all of the terrible sins I'm sure I commit with them on a daily basis when learning new sleights/moves. So, yeah, I would definitely invest in another card clip with my initials or logo on em 😉
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GregB

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Reply with quote  #6 
I definitely like the idea of what you have there! I had a card clip years ago and used it for a bit, but gradually moved back to just carrying cards in their tuck cases. It would be neat to have something like that customized, but I don't think I could justify more than $40 on something like that for myself. I've seen some card clips go for like $100 and that baffles me, but I'm sure they are amazing materials.
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Peter X

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Quote:
Originally Posted by GregB
I definitely like the idea of what you have there! I had a card clip years ago and used it for a bit, but gradually moved back to just carrying cards in their tuck cases. It would be neat to have something like that customized, but I don't think I could justify more than $40 on something like that for myself. I've seen some card clips go for like $100 and that baffles me, but I'm sure they are amazing materials.


Thank you all for your awesome input. 

Greg, I might be able to make it for less than $40.

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Peter X

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Quote:
Originally Posted by RayJ


I looked at the photo of your clip and it appears that the way they are made they put pressure on the case, which is good.

Some clips are pretty much worthless because of the way they are made.  They might protect the deck from getting dinged up, but since they don't really squeeze the deck, they don't keep the cards flat at all.

Yours seem to have the "spine" of the clip bent in the right manner in which to allow for the clip to hold the deck firmly.  If that is the case, you should mention it in your ad copy.

I purchased a stainless steel clip years ago and was extremely disappointed. Like I said, it may protect the card case from wear, it does nothing for the cards within.

Your clip is very attractive and the fact that it can be personalized is a plus.


Does the indented spine make a difference? Does it squeeze the deck better than a flat one shown below:
Amazon.com: Bicycle Stainless Steel (Silver) Card Clip for Deck ...

I have a similar clip to this one that is aluminum so I can bend it inward to apply more pressure on the deck. The steel ones are very hard to bend to apply pressure.

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RayJ

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Reply with quote  #9 
Perhaps some with a flat spine put pressure on the deck but the on I had fit way too loosely. I suppose brand of card matters also because some are thicker.
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RayJ

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Reply with quote  #10 
Now this is just sad.  They mention Porper in the description and if you didn't know it wasn't a Porper-made clip, you might be mislead.  Of course anyone who knows anything would question the price.  Still, it is wrong and could be construed as a misrepresentation.

https://www.amazon.com/Doowops-Arcane-Playing-Protector-Magician/dp/B087NK5G36/ref=sr_1_9?dchild=1&keywords=porper+card+clip&qid=1591104699&sr=8-9
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RayJ

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Reply with quote  #11 
The Porper Card Clip is special for a number of reasons.  The precision is typical Porper and the clip is not bent, but CNC machined out of a block of aluminum.  The shape of the spine is what allowed the clip to achieve the proper tension on the deck of cards.  There still would be a limitation depending upon the overall thickness of the case, but it does a better job than the squared-off versions.  

Porper Card Clip
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GregB

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Reply with quote  #12 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter X


Thank you all for your awesome input. 

Greg, I might be able to make it for less than $40.


Well, be sure to keep us all posted on your progress with it all then!
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Robin Dawes

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Reply with quote  #13 
Quote:
Originally Posted by RayJ
Now this is just sad.  They mention Porper in the description and if you didn't know it wasn't a Porper-made clip, you might be mislead.  Of course anyone who knows anything would question the price.  Still, it is wrong and could be construed as a misrepresentation.

https://www.amazon.com/Doowops-Arcane-Playing-Protector-Magician/dp/B087NK5G36/ref=sr_1_9?dchild=1&keywords=porper+card+clip&qid=1591104699&sr=8-9



Wow, searching Amazon for "Doowops" reveals that they have dozens of knock-off magic items on Amazon.  Nasty.
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RayJ

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Reply with quote  #14 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robin Dawes



Wow, searching Amazon for "Doowops" reveals that they have dozens of knock-off magic items on Amazon.  Nasty.


Robin, it is very sad.  More than sad, bordering on criminal, especially the sites which are selling downloads without authorization for as low as $1.88 per book.  

What we need to do is make sure that we prove we are better than that and not support them!  

I know you wouldn't, but there might be some, new to magic, that buy this stuff without knowing the damage they are doing to the community.

It is our job, in part, to make sure we spread the word.
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EndersGame

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Reply with quote  #15 
The custom clip in the original post looks great!  

I use my card clips often, but it's important to understand what their intended usage is for.  They are not so really designed for storing or carrying around a deck - because part of the deck is unprotected, and will still get damaged.  I use very different accessories for carrying around my decks.

The best use of a decent card clip is for helping flatten the cards, and for correcting a slightly warped deck.  A cheap knock-off card clip (like many of the ones on eBay) will typically made of too soft metal to accomplish that, so you can't skimp on quality.  I've found I get the best results from carbon fiber clips.

I've written more about this topic in the following article, which you might find helpful: Card Clips: What Are They, and Why Get One? 

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Peter X

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Reply with quote  #16 
Quote:
Originally Posted by EndersGame
The custom clip in the original post looks great!  

I use my card clips often, but it's important to understand what their intended usage is for.  They are not so really designed for storing or carrying around a deck - because part of the deck is unprotected, and will still get damaged.  I use very different accessories for carrying around my decks.

The best use of a decent card clip is for helping flatten the cards, and for correcting a slightly warped deck.  A cheap knock-off card clip (like many of the ones on eBay) will typically made of too soft metal to accomplish that, so you can't skimp on quality.  I've found I get the best results from carbon fiber clips.

I've written more about this topic in the following article, which you might find helpful: Card Clips: What Are They, and Why Get One? 


Thanks EndersGame for your feedback. The card clips I use apply a good amount of pressure on the deck. If you squeeze it too hard, it makes removing the deck from the card clip very difficult which shows that it can flatten the deck very well. Those carbon fiber clips look awesome but they are so expensive.

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Peter X

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Reply with quote  #17 

Here is another example with color (metallic gold)

Without flash:
clipGold.jpeg 


With flash:

clipGoldF.jpeg 

What do you think?



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John Cowne

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Reply with quote  #18 
Hey guys, I have no knowledge on this subject, so the question may not be on target. I’ve seen those transparent perspex ‘card clamps’ advertised (around 40 Aus$) that seem to work like a flower press. They are advertised as useful for flattening out cards. Would they have any extra merit for the job that a card clip does? I would have thought that they would be too ‘fiddly’ to use compared to a card clip you just slip the cards in in-between carrying the cards around. Or are they only to attempt to refresh cards beyond usual pressing? I was going to get one to flatten out my homemade split and gaffed cards.
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RayJ

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Reply with quote  #19 
Quote:
Originally Posted by John Cowne
Hey guys, I have no knowledge on this subject, so the question may not be on target. I’ve seen those transparent perspex ‘card clamps’ advertised (around 40 Aus$) that seem to work like a flower press. They are advertised as useful for flattening out cards. Would they have any extra merit for the job that a card clip does? I would have thought that they would be too ‘fiddly’ to use compared to a card clip you just slip the cards in in-between carrying the cards around. Or are they only to attempt to refresh cards beyond usual pressing? I was going to get one to flatten out my homemade split and gaffed cards.


John, what you are describing is a "Card Press" and is different from the clip in that you certainly wouldn't begin a show by removing the cards from the press!

But seriously, a card press can be very helpful in flattening cards.  I never bothered with one when I used to do card manipulations, but my cards probably would have looked better if I had used one.  The 'perpetual bend' didn't bother me.

I'm going to disagree slightly with Endersgame on this subject.  He said they are "not so much for storing or carrying around a deck."  I think that is exactly what they are good for.
They are meant to be seen.  Otherwise why have them look attractive?  They can look classy or interesting.  They can also allow you to carry a pack in your back pocket and sit on the cards without messing them up.  So I think they definitely have value in keeping your cards in good shape right up to performance.  

If they were mainly for flattening the cards, why spend money on a clip?  Just get a couple of old boards and a brick.

This press is reputed to be from the latter part of the 18th century or the early part of the 19th.

Antique Wooden Playing Card Press with Deck of S.D. Modiano image 0

A modern-day example.  I would never leave them in the box personally, but maybe some like their boxes squashed.

[crystalcardpress-full]

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EndersGame

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Reply with quote  #20 
Peter: The addition of metallic gold looks outstanding!  Very, very nicely done!

Ray: I agree that card clips are designed to be seen and hence the attractive looks.  But my point is these aesthetics fly in the face of their real-world functionality.  I've used a card clip in my pocket and for transporting a deck, and the unprotected parts of the deck do get very damaged.  Unfortunately, it just isn't practical and doesn't do what the ad copy for these typically suggests, and you really don't want to carry around a nice deck inside it, because the tuck box will still get wrecked and banged up, especially the two unprotected corners.  So in practice, I can't recommend them for carrying around a deck, because they don't protect it enough. 

For that you're better off using a plastic card box - which unfortunately doesn't have good looks at all, although it does a great job of protecting your deck from all sides when transporting it or carrying it in your pocket.  It's not glamorous, but it gets the job done much better than a card clip. That's why I've actually given up on using my card clips for carrying around my decks, and use them only for flattening the cards, or for safe-keeping on my desk a deck I'm currently using.

John: The crystal card press costs around $30 and is available here.  It can work, but with six separate screws, it is a lot of effort to flatten a deck, given how many times you need to spin those suckers around, and it can be a bit tricky to get even pressure in all six points of contact.  I find a card clip much easier for getting the job done - and it looks nicer too.

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Peter X

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Reply with quote  #21 
Quote:
Originally Posted by EndersGame
Peter: The addition of metallic gold looks outstanding!  Very, very nicely done!

Thank you for your kind words EndersGame 😉

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Chi Han

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Reply with quote  #22 
Quote:
Originally Posted by RayJ
The Porper Card Clip is special for a number of reasons.  The precision is typical Porper and the clip is not bent, but CNC machined out of a block of aluminum.  The shape of the spine is what allowed the clip to achieve the proper tension on the deck of cards.  There still would be a limitation depending upon the overall thickness of the case, but it does a better job than the squared-off versions.  

Porper Card Clip


Nicely said. The above, whether the clip is machined from a block vs bent is the number one consideration for me. The hurdle is such that I wouldn't even consider purchasing a clip no matter the design if it was made by bending.
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RayJ

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Reply with quote  #23 
There are a number of other products on the market that help to protect cards.  There are a couple of leather "pouches" that serve as carriers and I've made up a few myself.  Those, unfortunately only help to keep the case clean.  They are soft enough that any pressure on them is going to affect the cards.

A market obviously exists for all of the above examples or we wouldn't be seeing new entries into the space.
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John Cowne

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Reply with quote  #24 
Quote:
Originally Posted by EndersGame


John: The crystal card press costs around $30 and is available here.  It can work, but with six separate screws, it is a lot of effort to flatten a deck, given how many times you need to spin those suckers around, and it can be a bit tricky to get even pressure in all six points of contact.  I find a card clip much easier for getting the job done - and it looks nicer too.


Thanks, EndersGame. The ‘fiddly’ look of the crystal card press occurred to me. Peter’s product certainly has aesthetic value on its side too. It’s great to be able to bounce these ideas around with you guys.
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EndersGame

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Reply with quote  #25 
Quote:
Originally Posted by RayJ
There are a number of other products on the market that help to protect cards.  There are a couple of leather "pouches" that serve as carriers and I've made up a few myself.  


Here are some options I've had good success with:
These plastic deck sleeves and deck boxes are much more plain, but both very functional and do a great job of protecting a deck in transit:
And for the ultimate protection - looks amazing (and a price to match), but I haven't personally had the chance to see or use one of these:
I cannot recommend this one, since the zipper damages the tuck box:
For more thoughts on individual items above, I've covered most of them in an article here:

Products For Carrying & Protecting Your Decks
 

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RayJ

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Reply with quote  #26 
The wooden example above just goes to show that there there is a need there is a solution.  Further, it shows once again that what is new is old and vice-versa.
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