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RayJ

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Reply with quote  #1 
I struggled for a title, but that is the best I could come up with this morning.  

I wanted to get a thread going about effects that you have learned but will (probably) never, ever perform in front of an audience.

I came up with the thought after reading a thread on another forum about "holy grail" card magic and another one on this forum about difficult spectators.  

It seems to me that there are effects that are best left at home.  What I mean is that while they are interesting to us as magicians, they just don't "play" to laypersons.  

Another take on the topic might be tricks that aren't appropriate for certain audiences such as Al Goshman's Ding Dong sponge routine.  Personally I think that one should be relegated to the as heap, but YMMV.

But what I really want to know is do you practice a certain routine either for the fun of it or because it is challenging but you never intend to actually perform it?

If so, what are YOUR reasons?
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Anthony Vinson

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Chop Cup. I love the effect. Fell in love with it back in the 70s, in fact. Last year I sprang for one of Michael Kaminskas's Carolina Cups. It's a beauty and the action is smooth. And yet I rarely perform it. As an amateur there are simply too few opportunities. If someone comes to the house? Maybe, if they are interested and willing. But will I cart around the cup, balls, and final loads? Nah. I do it because I love it, and practicing the routine is fun.

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RayJ

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anthony Vinson
Chop Cup. I love the effect. Fell in love with it back in the 70s, in fact. Last year I sprang for one of Michael Kaminskas's Carolina Cups. It's a beauty and the action is smooth. And yet I rarely perform it. As an amateur there are simply too few opportunities. If someone comes to the house? Maybe, if they are interested and willing. But will I cart around the cup, balls, and final loads? Nah. I do it because I love it, and practicing the routine is fun.

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Good one.  Do you find that even though you don't perform it for others, it is worth practicing because of the various sleights required to perform it?
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JohnnyNewYork

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RayJ - Hello and thanks for your "always interesting" posts that make us all reflect a little on the mysteries encountered in our pursuit of magic!  I am more of a hobbyist (albeit an AVID one!) that only performs a few times a year for public events (much more frequently for my college students and family, of course).   Like AV, I am motivated almost entirely by those effects that appeal to ME and are fun to work out and develop.  The creative process is one of the most appealing and unappreciated aspects of magic, in my opinion!  I feel somewhat "cursed" because I am particularly drawn to those tricks requiring skills that are usually "not currently in my wheelhouse", but that's what makes practicing them fun, and ultimately the practice of those effects eventually make us stronger!   Of course, when I perform in public I aim for sure-fire effects that I know audiences will enjoy, but my heart is always in what I consider to be the "fun" stuff, and that is where I put most of my efforts.   Sometimes at sessions my fellow magicians tell me this or that routine is not practical for table-hopping or whatever, but if I love a routine, I still keep working on it to find ways to make it more of a "worker" that magicians as well as lay audiences will enjoy.  Until I obtain that goal, those routines remain part of my "home" projects!  Thanks again for your great topics and posts! - johnny
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RayJ

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Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnnyNewYork
RayJ - Hello and thanks for your "always interesting" posts that make us all reflect a little on the mysteries encountered in our pursuit of magic!  I am more of a hobbyist (albeit an AVID one!) that only performs a few times a year for public events (much more frequently for my college students and family, of course).   Like AV, I am motivated almost entirely by those effects that appeal to ME and are fun to work out and develop.  The creative process is one of the most appealing and unappreciated aspects of magic, in my opinion!  I feel somewhat "cursed" because I am particularly drawn to those tricks requiring skills that are usually "not currently in my wheelhouse", but that's what makes practicing them fun, and ultimately the practice of those effects eventually make us stronger!   Of course, when I perform in public I aim for sure-fire effects that I know audiences will enjoy, but my heart is always in what I consider to be the "fun" stuff, and that is where I put most of my efforts.   Sometimes at sessions my fellow magicians tell me this or that routine is not practical for table-hopping or whatever, but if I love a routine, I still keep working on it to find ways to make it more of a "worker" that magicians as well as lay audiences will enjoy.  Until I obtain that goal, those routines remain part of my "home" projects!  Thanks again for your great topics and posts! - johnny


Thanks for the encouragement!  You bring up another good point in that there are times when you find a routine that needs to be massaged and perhaps "whittled down" a bit in order to make it really practical.  

Regarding sessioning, it has always struck me that there are things you will do for other magi that you probably wouldn't do for laypeople.  Either because it is intentionally a "magician fooler" and not really worth the work for typical use or maybe because it is something that impressed fellow magicians but average people would yawn at.

BTW, regarding "fun stuff", my wife and I were watching a movie last night and I was practicing split fans.  There is a 90% chance I will never perform my card manipulation routine again, but I was just doing it for the satisfaction.  We're a strange bunch, I think.
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Bmat

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Reply with quote  #6 
An easy one for me.  I love Helicopter Card Trick by Slydini.   One of my fav card effects of all time.  I learned it, practiced it, rehearsed it, and I can honestly say I'll never have the nerve to perform it.  
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RayJ

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bmat
An easy one for me.  I love Helicopter Card Trick by Slydini.   One of my fav card effects of all time.  I learned it, practiced it, rehearsed it, and I can honestly say I'll never have the nerve to perform it.  


Interesting.  That is in the two-book set written by Karl Fulves.  I performed it once back in the 80s I think.  The reaction was good.  But it is angly and for more formal close-up situations, not walkaround of course.

There are great lessons to be learned in the trick.
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Bmat

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Quote:
Originally Posted by RayJ


Interesting.  That is in the two-book set written by Karl Fulves.  I performed it once back in the 80s I think.  The reaction was good.  But it is angly and for more formal close-up situations, not walkaround of course.

There are great lessons to be learned in the trick.


Exactly, the person sitting directly to your left is going to know everything, angles are the worst. But as you said there is a lot to be learned from the effect. It’s pretty much it’s own chapter on magic. And yes that is where I learned it from the Fulves books.

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Michaelblue

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Reply with quote  #9 
I practice Gary Kurtz' Flurious a lot at home. Dont have the guts to do it for anyone.
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arthur stead

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There are an abundance of “magian-fooler” effects out there.  We magic enthusiasts find them fascinating, and they’re great for entertaining magician friends.  But for various reasons, many of these tricks fall flat when performing for a lay audience.  It took me a long time and lots of trials and error to be able to differentiate.  But now I kind of know which effects to leave at home when performing for the public, and which to leave at home when performing for magician friends and colleagues.


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RayJ

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Michaelblue
I practice Gary Kurtz' Flurious a lot at home. Dont have the guts to do it for anyone.


That is a good example.  But how about using bits and pieces of it maybe?  Perhaps in the context of a different routine.
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Anthony Vinson

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Michaelblue
I practice Gary Kurtz' Flurious a lot at home. Dont have the guts to do it for anyone.


Can't blame you!!! I saw Kurtz perform it and knew immediately that it was something I would never come close to learning, much less showing. I am impressed that you've learned the moves and routine! 

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Anthony Vinson

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Quote:
Originally Posted by RayJ


Good one.  Do you find that even though you don't perform it for others, it is worth practicing because of the various sleights required to perform it?


Oh yeah, definitely. I've videoed myself a couple of times, and then gone back and worked out the rough spots. The routine I do is simple and derivative, but requires a great deal of audience management and misdirection. 

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Michaelblue

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Reply with quote  #14 
That's a great idea, ray j.
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Gareth

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Reply with quote  #15 
Surely I can dust off Goshman’s Dong for this gig Ray? Please avoid the temptation of reading line 5 and 6 of the ‘appearing’ list as one sentence!!!


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Robin Dawes

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Reply with quote  #16 
I once performed an after-dinner show at a "Grannies and Great-Aunts" Bonspiel - the audience consisted of about 60 inebriated and raucous elderly lady curlers.  I think it is the only show I've ever done where the Magic Ding Dong would have matched the audience's mood!
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Gareth

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robin Dawes
I once performed an after-dinner show at a "Grannies and Great-Aunts" Bonspiel - the audience consisted of about 60 inebriated and raucous elderly lady curlers.  I think it is the only show I've ever done where the Magic Ding Dong would have matched the audience's mood!


Hope a de-fibrillator was near at hand Robin!!!
Gareth
PS and might I compliment you on a rather suave new profile picture Robin!
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RayJ

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Reply with quote  #18 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gareth
Surely I can dust off Goshman’s Dong for this gig Ray? Please avoid the temptation of reading line 5 and 6 of the ‘appearing’ list as one sentence!!!




Crack me up!  I guess there is a time and a place for everything.  
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Robin Dawes

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Reply with quote  #19 
Hi Gareth

Thanks for noticing!  A bow-tie and a black suit go a long way towards making a scruffy old geezer look like a 00 agent. 
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