Sign up Latest Topics Chat
 
 
 


Reply
  Author   Comment  
Bulla

Inner Circle
Registered:
Posts: 219
Reply with quote  #1 
I recently purchased two decks of Green Monarchs from Amazon. It was bought from this listing https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01ESWPAKU/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
Upon opening the decks I noticed they didn't feel the right. First of all the box wasn't even cut properly as you can see in the pic. Normally there are two small cuts along the side so the flap can open up more but here it's missing. The cards have a weird smell to them. It doesn't smell like normal paper. The edges were rough. The cards felt extremely thin and flimsy. The font looked thinner than usual. The pic with the K, Q, and J. The top row is a legit blue monarch deck. The bottom row is from the green monarchs I purchased. It may be hard to see the difference in font and coloring but take a look at the KD, his hands are different. Anyway, I just wanted to inform you guys that there may potentially be someone distributing fake green monarch decks. I'm pretty well-versed when it comes to cards and these were horrible. Felt nothing like a normal monarch deck. They also clumped right out of the box. I contacted theory11 about this to make them aware of the situation. I would be shocked if this is the quality of the green monarchs now. I've bought some in the past and they were fine. If I hear back from them I'll let you guys now. Court Cards.jpg  Ink bleed.jpg  Rough Edges.jpg  Uncut box.jpg 

0
RayJ

Avatar / Picture

Honored Member
Registered:
Posts: 1,600
Reply with quote  #2 
I clicked on the Amazon link and apparently these are originating from a seller by the name of Mark Machin.  Perhaps there is a way to reach out to him.

Personally I think they are legitimate USPCC printed cards.  I've seen knockoffs of Bee cards that were printed in China and they were laughable.  These look way too close to the actual article.  At least to my eye.

I have seen bad USPCC cards get through the plant.  Borders that are way, way off.  Faces that are not centered properly.  Edges that resemble sandpaper.  It all happens, albeit sporadically.

Poor spreading could be attributed to poor storage.  Perhaps the cards were exposed to moisture, excessive humidity?

If you look closely at the Ace of Diamonds in your photo you will see the red ink smudging.  I have several Monarch packs that exhibit that exact same condition.  I got them on sale at Barnes & Noble Booksellers.

But having said all of this I think it is good to report your findings and displeasure to Theory11.  Otherwise they have no opportunity to respond.

P.S.  Regarding the difference in the hand.  I have no clue.  It isn't really different but appears to be "enlarged".  Compare the entire King from card-to-card and compare to those alongside.  The one where the hand is closer to the border appears "zoomed-in".
0
Bulla

Inner Circle
Registered:
Posts: 219
Reply with quote  #3 
This was fulfilled by Amazon so I'm going through them to try and get a refund. Yeah, these are very close in comparison but there were just too many red flags.These decks came sealed in plastic. My first guess is that this might be the result of mass production since this deck in particular got so much attention. Honestly, these cards are just unusable. Also, the edges almost look like these might be that german black core card stock. The embossing on the box is also very shallow unlike their normal boxes. I really hope these decks are fake because if not then USPCC is destroying the monarchs brand.
0
RayJ

Avatar / Picture

Honored Member
Registered:
Posts: 1,600
Reply with quote  #4 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bulla
This was fulfilled by Amazon so I'm going through them to try and get a refund. Yeah, these are very close in comparison but there were just too many red flags.These decks came sealed in plastic. My first guess is that this might be the result of mass production since this deck in particular got so much attention. Honestly, these cards are just unusable. Also, the edges almost look like these might be that german black core card stock. The embossing on the box is also very shallow unlike their normal boxes. I really hope these decks are fake because if not then USPCC is destroying the monarchs brand.


Yes, fulfilled by Amazon but the page says they originated from a seller by the name of Mark Machin.  I clicked on his "storefront" and there are also Artisans listed.  I'm guessing he bought in bulk from Theory11 at a discount and is selling them through Amazon.
0
Bulla

Inner Circle
Registered:
Posts: 219
Reply with quote  #5 
I guess I'll try to contact him too. Can't hurt. I've just seen in the past when people would post bad reviews of a product they would get a response that since amazon fulfilled the order they would be accepting full responsibility for everything.
0
RayJ

Avatar / Picture

Honored Member
Registered:
Posts: 1,600
Reply with quote  #6 
Let us know what you find out.  Bottom line is if you're not satisfied, then a return or replacement is in order.
0
RayJ

Avatar / Picture

Honored Member
Registered:
Posts: 1,600
Reply with quote  #7 
BTW, the smell could be due to the inks.  The ad says they use vegetable-based inks.  I can tell you when I first opened the Bicycle Eco cards, which were supposed to be very environmentally friendly, I noticed the strong smell that differed from regular Bikes.
0
RayJ

Avatar / Picture

Honored Member
Registered:
Posts: 1,600
Reply with quote  #8 
[BCG%20box]

[Bee%20box]
0
Bulla

Inner Circle
Registered:
Posts: 219
Reply with quote  #9 
I guess it's hard to explain. You really have to feel these decks in person. Theory11 responded and said it looks to be normal. I offered to send them these decks at my own expense and don't expect a refund. I just feel that it's very important that they know that this is the quality of their brand that's being sold. I've used green monarchs before and they were fantastic. These aren't even close. The difference of what I'm experiencing would be the equivalent of comparing a bee deck to those bcg decks.
0
RayJ

Avatar / Picture

Honored Member
Registered:
Posts: 1,600
Reply with quote  #10 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bulla
I guess it's hard to explain. You really have to feel these decks in person. Theory11 responded and said it looks to be normal. I offered to send them these decks at my own expense and don't expect a refund. I just feel that it's very important that they know that this is the quality of their brand that's being sold. I've used green monarchs before and they were fantastic. These aren't even close. The difference of what I'm experiencing would be the equivalent of comparing a bee deck to those bcg decks.


Bulla, I seriously doubt they are counterfeit.  I do not disagree with you that they are not up to par.

So in the end it could be that they pushed out a ton on Monarchs and the quality suffered.

There just isn't any financial gain in printing fake Monarchs unless they were total junk.  Like the "Bees" I showed pictures of.  They barely have any finish on them.

The Jerry's Nuggets were counterfeited, but that was because they could fetch hundreds of dollars per pack.  

Replicating Monarchs would leave no margin for the producer.  Not with the quality of the cards, the box, etc.

I understand they aren't up to the standard you were accustomed to, but I cannot believe they are anything but USPCC production.
0
Bulla

Inner Circle
Registered:
Posts: 219
Reply with quote  #11 
Yeah at this point I'm not debating that these are or aren't counterfeit. What I am saying is that there has been a severe oversight in quality production that if not stopped immediately will tarnish the brand that they've built. I'm trying to prevent that by bringing this to their attention and everyone here as well. If you love Monarchs decks then do not buy them from this listing. I honestly think that they will be appalled by the quality of these decks. These cards aren't even up to par with Bicycle Standards. I had a custom deck printed up once by makeplayingcards.com and these Monarchs feel a lot worse.
0
RayJ

Avatar / Picture

Honored Member
Registered:
Posts: 1,600
Reply with quote  #12 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bulla
Yeah at this point I'm not debating that these are or aren't counterfeit. What I am saying is that there has been a severe oversight in quality production that if not stopped immediately will tarnish the brand that they've built. I'm trying to prevent that by bringing this to their attention and everyone here as well. If you love Monarchs decks then do not buy them from this listing. I honestly think that they will be appalled by the quality of these decks. These cards aren't even up to par with Bicycle Standards. I had a custom deck printed up once by makeplayingcards.com and these Monarchs feel a lot worse.


Please update us if you decide to return them and how that goes.  I'd also love to hear if they give you an explanation for the lack of quality.  Seems to me that they won't be selling as many if the quality slips.  
0
Bulla

Inner Circle
Registered:
Posts: 219
Reply with quote  #13 
I got an immediate refund after messaging the seller on Amazon. He didn't require me to return the decks. I haven't heard back from theory11 yet after offering to send them these decks at my expense.
0
Bulla

Inner Circle
Registered:
Posts: 219
Reply with quote  #14 
So now things just got interesting. It was just by chance that I stumbled upon this post on reddit in r/cardistry. He has the same complaints as me but he also pointed out some minor details that I didn't notice like the spelling of the text on the card. I can confirm that the green monarchs I bought also have this same discrepancy in the text. https://www.reddit.com/r/cardistry/comments/dsb6iz/fake_monarchs_on_amazon/
0
RayJ

Avatar / Picture

Honored Member
Registered:
Posts: 1,600
Reply with quote  #15 
Very interesting indeed.  If true this will be the first I've seen where a "relatively" inexpensive deck of cards was counterfeited.  It really is a lot of work to attain even the inferior quality of the ones you received.  Certainly they were done by a large printing company.

I've reached out to someone regarding this myself.  If I get any interesting response I will let you know.

Bottom line is Theory11 has a lot to lose if people stop purchasing their cards because they fear they are receiving fakes.  You can always buy directly from Theory11, but any other source could immediately become suspect.
0
Bulla

Inner Circle
Registered:
Posts: 219
Reply with quote  #16 
Yeah, I sent that post to theory11 and they'll be investigating it. I learned my lesson. I'm just buying direct now lol.
0
Anthony Vinson

Avatar / Picture

Honored Member - Moderator
Registered:
Posts: 2,649
Reply with quote  #17 
Bulla,

Your response from the seller was about what I expected. Those folks, at least the legitimate ones, want to maintain high ratings on the site and bend over backwards to service customers. Nothing wrong with buying from them! Keeps 'em in business. 

Av
0
RayJ

Avatar / Picture

Honored Member
Registered:
Posts: 1,600
Reply with quote  #18 
Bulla, I won't be able to cut-and-paste the email response that I got from Theory11, but suffice to say they believe this might be a real case of counterfeiting.  They are investigating the circumstances to make sure.
My contact went on to say that they have only around 1 or 2 instances a year of suspected counterfeiting.  

Personally, I think that is a lot.  

So as it turns out, you might be right about the cards being fake.  Thanks for reporting this and maybe saving others the time and trouble of getting ripped off!

Ray
0
Tom G

Inner Circle - Moderator
Registered:
Posts: 1,070
Reply with quote  #19 
Counterfeit or he got some seconds somehow.  Although the spelling error points to counterfeit.
0
RayJ

Avatar / Picture

Honored Member
Registered:
Posts: 1,600
Reply with quote  #20 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom G
Counterfeit or he got some seconds somehow.  Although the spelling error points to counterfeit.


I think we'll know for certain but it does sound like they are fakes.  I still have a hard time understanding the economics of it.  To be able to produce even a decent replica has to be somewhat expensive.  But I guess if you print tens of thousands of them you can get the cost down to a point where it makes sense.  

Modern computers and software make pirating fairly easy, but you still have to make them.
0
Previous Topic | Next Topic
Print
Reply

Quick Navigation:

Easily create a Forum Website with Website Toolbox.