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RayJ

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Reply with quote  #51 
Stanley, reason I asked is it appears you are doing a top-down shuffle and certain decks will facilitate that while others won't.  

I don't own any NOCs so I cannot confirm how they are cut.  They are supposed to be very nice cards though.

For starters I agree that you seem to be getting an easier weave with less struggle, so that's good!

But, I'm not a fan of how you separate the cards into two packets and butt them together.

I'd avoid riffling them to separate.  Just gauge the half-way point and cut them, keeping them as square as possible.  Then just before attempting the weave, square them against one-another.  I don't see you doing any squaring and that is going to give you problems especially if you need to have a perfect weave.  It might be OK for some tricks where only some of the cards need to be alternated perfectly, but if you intend to maintain a perfect weave, they really need to be square.

Practice cutting at the middle, making adjustments if needed just before completely separating them and then tap the ends together in order to square them a bit.
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Mike Powers

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Reply with quote  #52 
A couple of things one might try when attempting to learn the faro shuffle:

Start by taking about 18 cards in your right hand and faroing them into the larger group. Try to not get any discrepancies. In that regard, keep the top cards of the two packets in the same plane. Not having that situation may cause problems.

If you find that you can faro 18 into the other 34, try 20 into 32 then 24 into 28. Don't worry about IN/OUT. Just try to get a perfect weave. If this is working, learn to cut 26 and 26 and finally address IN/OUT.

Be sure you're using one of the decks (Turner or Elite etc) that are cut to aid in the faro.

Mike
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Tom Kracker

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Reply with quote  #53 
Stanley,

I know when I was first learning the Faro many years ago, it rarely went well when I forced it.  They are almost always perfect when I "just let it happen".  Now, I pretty much do it without thinking.

I agree with Ray, rather than riffle the side, just cut the cards.  I typically just estimate and cut to 26.  After a lot of practice cutting to the right amount (look up books on Estimation, I have a booklet from Marlo, but I'm sure there's others), you will be able to grab 26 and 26 pretty easy, or whatever other number of cards you need for an effect.

Some cards are cut better than others.  I've noticed that Bicycles typically Faro better from top down, but occasionally I've had a deck that is just cut wrong, and I have to Faro them from bottom up.  Or flip them over face-up and Faro from this physical top down orientation.  I've never owned Turner or Elite, but I think I will have to get some to try them.

Mike's advice about trying smaller packets is gold.  And as I mentioned in my video, if you notice you missed a card, either start over, or back out a little, then continue. 

Tom

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TheAmazingStanley

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Reply with quote  #54 
Thanks for all the tips guys. Gold indeed. I watched Tom’s video again and also the Cardistry Boot Camp video. Much better to cut than riffle them apart. I think I was trying to do the squaring individually as I separated the halves. I noticed my thumb come up along the back short edge at one point. Too much motion all around. I will tidy this up.

If I may ask for clarification, Ray, you mentioned not liking butting them together. What do you mean by butting them together? The bringing together of the halves I presume, but do you mean something to do with angles, or deftness of touch etc?

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RayJ

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Reply with quote  #55 
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheAmazingStanley
Thanks for all the tips guys. Gold indeed. I watched Tom’s video again and also the Cardistry Boot Camp video. Much better to cut than riffle them apart. I think I was trying to do the squaring individually as I separated the halves. I noticed my thumb come up along the back short edge at one point. Too much motion all around. I will tidy this up.

If I may ask for clarification, Ray, you mentioned not liking butting them together. What do you mean by butting them together? The bringing together of the halves I presume, but do you mean something to do with angles, or deftness of touch etc?


I see some beginners attempt to faro the entire "butt" end of the cards.  It can be done, but in my experience it is much more difficult than concentrating your attention on the corners.

So when I do the shuffle the butt ends get squared against one-another, then they make very brief contact as I align them to determine In/Out Faro and then I rotate them towards each other so that the corners make contact.  This is the "gear" motion talked about earlier in the thread.

Remember that when you use your fingers to square, the cards will tend to bevel.  It's only natural because you digits aren't flat and square.  The best way, in my opinion to get the required condition to ensure a consistent Faro is to tap the cards against each-other and let the flat ends of the cards do the work. 

Hope that makes sense.  I'm not great at doing videos, especially with no assistance or I would do one.  Maybe over the weekend I'll ask the Mrs. to assist me.
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Mike Powers

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Reply with quote  #56 
Sometimes in helps to lightly push the packets together as you pull the RHs group toward your body.

M
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RayJ

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Reply with quote  #57 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Powers
Sometimes in helps to lightly push the packets together as you pull the RHs group toward your body.

M


One thing I've found is that there are little subtle things you can do to get "untrained" decks to cooperate and that sliding action is one of them.  

A magician I won't name made a statement once that ANY deck can be Faro Shuffled and that if you were struggling, the problem was you and your technique.  I respectfully disagree.  Sorry, but there are some decks, particularly those that have a rather square edge that are just hard to weave.  The typical cutting process gives cards an angled edge and it is this "wedge shape" that aids in achieving an accurate Faro. 

You can sometimes get a reluctant pack to cooperate with time and by submitting it to techniques that modify the edges.

There are a number of reasonably priced (not necessarily cheap) playing cards that are traditionally cut that will help make your attempts easier.  I suggest investing in those and after you are comfortable with them, begin to expand out and learn to work with others. 
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TheAmazingStanley

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Reply with quote  #58 
Quote:
Originally Posted by RayJ


I see some beginners attempt to faro the entire "butt" end of the cards.  It can be done, but in my experience it is much more difficult than concentrating your attention on the corners.

So when I do the shuffle the butt ends get squared against one-another, then they make very brief contact as I align them to determine In/Out Faro and then I rotate them towards each other so that the corners make contact.  This is the "gear" motion talked about earlier in the thread.

Remember that when you use your fingers to square, the cards will tend to bevel.  It's only natural because you digits aren't flat and square.  The best way, in my opinion to get the required condition to ensure a consistent Faro is to tap the cards against each-other and let the flat ends of the cards do the work. 

Hope that makes sense.  I'm not great at doing videos, especially with no assistance or I would do one.  Maybe over the weekend I'll ask the Mrs. to assist me.


That does make sense. It is starting to look like the gears more often now. It’s quite beautiful when you hit it.

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Tom Kracker

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Reply with quote  #59 
Occasionally, I use a very slight sawing motion when the cards are aligned.  It's not always necessary, but sometimes it helps.

If you aren't quite sure what I mean, I can make another video or we can video session some time.

Tom

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TheAmazingStanley

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Reply with quote  #60 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Kracker
Occasionally, I use a very slight sawing motion when the cards are aligned.  It's not always necessary, but sometimes it helps.

If you aren't quite sure what I mean, I can make another video or we can video session some time.

Tom


I think I do know what you mean. Sometimes they just fall into place but other times they need a little nudge, and even that may not be the right word because it has to look effortless. But just a little twist can get the gears interlocking. That would be cool to session. I guess. I never did a magic session before 🙃.

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luigimar

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Reply with quote  #61 
Hey Stanley!

I see that you joined TMF recently and I hope you know about the Saturday Sessions, which could be a way for you to ask your question about the Faro Shuffle and maybe a member could help you. I was about to tell you about a session to give you some tips as well if it is not done during a Saturday Session but Tom beat me to it. I think the session would be better than just making a video because in a session you could ask questions and they could be anwered in real time. And even an effect or two could be performed to give you some motivation to learn the Faro. 
 

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TheAmazingStanley

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Reply with quote  #62 
Thanks to everyone for being so generous with your knowledge. I have seen the announcements for the Saturday sessions and for various reasons haven’t been able to join but they are definitely in the scope of my awareness and curiosity. This isn’t a solitary pursuit, even though I’m the type who could just lock myself in a room with a deck of cards. There are so many subtleties that you need more established practitioners to keep you from chasing your tail.
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RayJ

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Reply with quote  #63 
The only danger is in developing bad habits. If you do something long enough, the muscle memory kicks in and it can be hard to break. I don't know that that will happen here.
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luigimar

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Reply with quote  #64 
Stanley,

if you tell us your schedule, so we know whenever you can meet and any of us can make it, we could just setup a video call (Zoom/Meet/Jitsi) and we can see the details of the faro that are eluding you...

I am "free" (from work after 4 PM central time) on weekdays and most of the weekends, although next Saturday we have a lecture and I don't know how long it will be... 



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TheAmazingStanley

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Reply with quote  #65 
Quote:
Originally Posted by luigimar
Stanley,

if you tell us your schedule, so we know whenever you can meet and any of us can make it, we could just setup a video call (Zoom/Meet/Jitsi) and we can see the details of the faro that are eluding you...

I am "free" (from work after 4 PM central time) on weekdays and most of the weekends, although next Saturday we have a lecture and I don't know how long it will be... 




That’s pretty much the deal for me, I usually am free in the evenings (unless I lacked the requisite mania to get my work done in 8 hours in which case I might be up til 2am in which case some sessioning would be a good diversion). Weekends pretty much any time is good other than TMF Saturday events which I do intend to start attending, I have just a wee touch of social anxiety. Great hobby I’ve chosen lol. I think I can do Zoom.

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RayJ

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Reply with quote  #66 
Stanley, rest assured if you participate you'll find it a very comfortable environment. We all have some nerves, especially at first!
Rudy is really good about welcoming "first-timers" and if you simply wish to say hi and then watch, that's just fine. No pressure.
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GregB

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Reply with quote  #67 
I would definitely be interested in joining in for some work on the faro. I would love to get better at it and I'm not sure what exactly the technique is I need to improve on to get it perfect
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TheAmazingStanley

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Reply with quote  #68 
Quote:
Originally Posted by RayJ
Stanley, rest assured if you participate you'll find it a very comfortable environment. We all have some nerves, especially at first!
Rudy is really good about welcoming "first-timers" and if you simply wish to say hi and then watch, that's just fine. No pressure.


I believe that, Ray. That’s been the general atmosphere here. So much knowledge and a willingness to share it with the younger 🤫 generation!

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Nicolás Pierri

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Reply with quote  #69 
Try turning the deck face up and let me know :)
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Nicolás Pierri

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Reply with quote  #70 
I talk about this issue (diferent types of cuts on the cards) in my book on the faro but what you can do is to file the cards... i talk about this too but you can find a very precise explanarion on COLLECTED WORKS OF ALEX ELMSLEY vol 2 chapter: faro trapestries.

What i add on my book is the idea of dan and dave that instead of using a nail file they use they own jeans you just brush 4 times in 4 directions the short edges of the deck with your jeans :)
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luigimar

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Reply with quote  #71 
Stanley,

A Saturday Session is scheduled for this Saturday September 5 at 2 PM Pacific. It's a good opportunity to ask about the Faro. If you are there, just ask (so we know you are there) and I can show you what I do to faro a deck... It could be easier to see it live than just having some written descriptions. 

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TheAmazingStanley

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Reply with quote  #72 
Quote:
Originally Posted by luigimar
Stanley,

A Saturday Session is scheduled for this Saturday September 5 at 2 PM Pacific. It's a good opportunity to ask about the Faro. If you are there, just ask (so we know you are there) and I can show you what I do to faro a deck... It could be easier to see it live than just having some written descriptions. 


I can make that. Gotta take the plunge 🤭. How do you join? Sorry I’m not finding that on the FAQ.

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TheAmazingStanley

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Reply with quote  #73 
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheAmazingStanley


I can make that. Gotta take the plunge 🤭. How do you join? Sorry I’m not finding that on the FAQ.


Figured it out, see you there👏

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Duke

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Reply with quote  #74 
"start at the corners"

well, there's at least ONE specific tip!

Thanks.

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luigimar

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Reply with quote  #75 
Well Stanley, I tried to show you on the Saturday Session what I do and how I do it regarding the faro shuffle. I hope what you saw really helps you do it. I also performed some of my favorite effects so you can see what can be done with it. I hope I fooled you and that gives you some motivation to continue practicing so you are able to perform those effects one day. 

See you around my friend! 

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EndersGame

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Reply with quote  #76 
What really helped me over the hump in learning the Faro Shuffle is the excellent tutorial by The Virts.

https://shop.thevirts.com/products/perfect-faro

It's not a freebie, but is incredibly detailed and covers absolutely everything.  Some fantastic information, and if you're struggling with this sleight and really want to master it, this tutorial is well worth the money.

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TheAmazingStanley

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Reply with quote  #77 
Quote:
Originally Posted by luigimar
Well Stanley, I tried to show you on the Saturday Session what I do and how I do it regarding the faro shuffle. I hope what you saw really helps you do it. I also performed some of my favorite effects so you can see what can be done with it. I hope I fooled you and that gives you some motivation to continue practicing so you are able to perform those effects one day. 

See you around my friend! 


Fooled the heck out of me! And yes I especially appreciate the application to a real effect, so it’s not just a move.

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