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Mind Phantom

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Reply with quote  #1 
If you were performing for other magicians, using a deck of cards, gimmicked or not, what would you do to fool them ?

I would do the Mid-Air Card Stab by John Kennedy.

What would you do ?

Here is someone doing the Mid-Air Card Stab,


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Magic-Aly

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Reply with quote  #2 
Oftentimes the seemingly most simple and straightforward effects - ones you'd never expect - will fool a magician.  My go to: They shuffle (can be their deck), they cut the deck into two packets, I apparently name the top card of each packet.  Seems to never fail. [crazy]
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Anthony Vinson

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Reply with quote  #3 
Something using a key card. Keys are used too infrequently, rarely praised, and will fool magicians. Waterman recently posted a nice little 21 Card Trick fooler that made clever use of a key card. And no, I'm not going to make it easy by posting a link - If you're interested you'll make the effort!
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EVILDAN

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Reply with quote  #4 
I know guys that have fried magicians with one way and stripper decks.
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luigimar

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Reply with quote  #5 
I once fried a group of magicians with their own new deck. One of them took out a new deck and I let him unwrap it. Then I said: "Can I?" And he said "Sure." I took the deck and used the Si Stebbins secret to set it up. Then I did a bunch of tricks with that. Then I let them shuffle and did more tricks with that one way deck. This deck is printed in such a way that the design hides its one way feature.

They are still wondering how I did it. My friend still says, "but it was my own deck!"

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Mind Phantom

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Reply with quote  #6 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anthony Vinson
Something using a key card. Keys are used too infrequently, rarely praised, and will fool magicians.


I saw a young man do Sal Piacente's the 4-5-6 Packet Trick at a local SAM meeting (112 ), and fooled the pants off them.

Your right, a key card is very simple & under the radar.

Best,


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Michaelblue

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Reply with quote  #7 
I would do John Carney's Slow Fade to Red.
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Sam Slaven

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Reply with quote  #8 
I would just do my best trick and hope for the best. Some of these guys have been around for a while!
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Intensely Magic

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Reply with quote  #9 
There aren't too many tricks worth carrying around a gimmicked deck of cards, but I think Get Sharky may qualify. I've yet to perform it where anybody had a clue.
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Bob Farmer

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Reply with quote  #10 
I used a Svengali deck but for a three-card monte routine. Fooled every magician I ever showed it to. 
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Paul Hallas

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Reply with quote  #11 
I've fooled other magicians with a Svengali deck, too. But, generally if you want to fool other magicians do something from a book rather than a dealer bought trick. I can't recall the number of times in the past I've fooled other magicians with effects from a Stewart James book. 

Of course it might be satisfying fooling other magicians now and again, but they aren't the best payers, lol. 

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Chi Han

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Reply with quote  #12 
I performed for some magicians at a festival recently, I did my best stuff, the audience tested routines, they weren't very impressed, fair enough I'm not so good. So I had some fun and did Top Level Test from JawDroppers. Not really expecting to fool anyone, and from their reactions I guessed I didn't, then one of them said to me "Nice culling." He asked me where I learnt it. I told him I don't usually cull, and didn't for that trick. He accused me of lying. Very perplexing for me. I did the trick I think twice more on different days by request. A few magicians liked the trick and were complimentary, but by and large I was talking to people who looked distinctly unimpressed and accused me of using everything from marked cards to science friction spray. After that whole debacle I've had much less enthusiasm for performing to magicians. It also cured my nerves performing for them too. If they're not going to enjoy it and just be grumpy, whats the point?
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Robin Dawes

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Reply with quote  #13 
Wow, Chi Han ... I think you need to associate with a better class of magician!  I wouldn't take kindly to another magician accusing me of lying, nor "accusing" me of using various completely legitimate tools.  I'd say these guys probably went home feeling very frustrated at how thoroughly you fooled them.

But to answer the original question, I have fooled magicians several times with John Bannon's Depth Charge.
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Intensely Magic

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Reply with quote  #14 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chi Han Yeo
......After that whole debacle I've had much less enthusiasm for performing to magicians. It also cured my nerves performing for them too. If they're not going to enjoy it and just be grumpy, whats the point?


Interesting. I've generally found magicians to be an "easy" and respectful audience. Sure, you run into a real Richard once is a while, but that seems to be the exception. Don't let these joy suckers ruin it fir you. I think they are in the minority. Maybe I'm just old and this is the way it is now.

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Anthony Vinson

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Reply with quote  #15 
Chi Han, I think you're final sentence is great advice and says it all, "If they're not going to enjoy it and just be grumpy, whats the point?". This also applies to general audiences.
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EVILDAN

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Reply with quote  #16 
For Chi Han.....

When you meet this type of magician again.
Say, "Look, I'll do something with your deck that will really fool you." Borrow their deck.
The better quality deck. The better the trick. If you can do this with a deck of ultra rare Jerry's Nuggets, you get bonus points.
Give the deck your best false shuffle making it pretty obvious that you're doing a false shuffle.
Now, grab the deck in Biddle grip with your right hand, palm down, fingers in front, thumb at the rear.
Turn your hand palm up and spring all the cards upward.
Let them fall to the floor.
Say, "52 PICKUP!!!!! Bet you didn't see that one coming!!"
Then walk away.
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Chris M

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Reply with quote  #17 
What would I use to fool other magi?  A stooge. [smile]

And yeah, Chi Han, what festival was that?  Festival of the rude and annoying?  Ugh. 
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Mike Powers

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Reply with quote  #18 
I'm more inclined to do risky tricks when performing for magi. If they fail, no big deal. But when they hit - wow. 

Risky could mean very angley i.e. one on one. It  could mean that a cut has to be into a small slug for the trick to work.


Mike
 
 
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Harry Lorayne

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Reply with quote  #19 
      When I was showing/performing Top Level Test for magicians - before I published it in JAW DROPPERS - their jaws dropped just as far as laymen jaws! Always did it with THEIR deck. Guess it's all according to who and where.
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Chi Han

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Reply with quote  #20 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Harry Lorayne
      When I was showing/performing Top Level Test for magicians - before I published it in JAW DROPPERS - their jaws dropped just as far as laymen jaws! Always did it with THEIR deck. Guess it's all according to who and where.


No doubt! There's definitely tricks in that book that wouldn't work as jaw droppers for me, problem is testing them out! That said laymen's jaws always drop when I do Top Level Test, but this group of magicians just sort of stare blankly then go back to shuffling cards.

The stuff that got them excited was more of the knacky stuff. One guy did clip shift, and I kid you not they all crowded around him and just asked him to do it over and over. I'm as guilty of that as the next guy, and I love just watching a master do a pass again and again, so I can't really judge, but I got the feeling they weren't too interested in tricks.

I remember we were all sitting at a table, and a woman there to see one of the shows asked us if we were magicians, and if she could see a trick. I'm thinking this is the dream scenario. At the time I was doing restaurant stuff, so the idea of someone approaching me to ask to see tricks was like wow!

The magician nearest to her just gave this big sigh, and said alright. He then pulls out his phone ans starts scrolling through it, completely ignoring her. I'm thinking he's about to do a phone trick, I love organic magic so I'm really paying attention. Turns out he's scrolling through a list of tricks he knows and is looking for one he wants to do. He picks one and says, alright I can do this, spreads the deck right in front of her and begins arranging cards. Now I know this kid is talented as all heck. I saw him do this incredoble ace production not 15 minutes ago where he's making it look like aces are coming out of his fingertips. But I can't imagine Bill Malone, or David Williamson, or Harry Lorayne, or any magician really completely ignoring the layperson and openly setting up a deck without patter.

Anyway that's the kind of magician who was there watching the stuff.

Although there was a happy ending of sorts. I leaned over while this guy was setting up, and asked her if she had ever been to Crown Casino in Melbourne. She said no, I told her great because it's full of cheaters, and then I jumped into a pheonix aces routine, followed by something else, I think a twisting the aces by Roger Klause and I finished it with Colour Gathering Plus, which at the time I was just reading but has since become a real worker for me (tbh, the only drawback is that it's too strong. I almost always have to save it for last because I don't have anything stronger, but at the same time it's so good they want to see another one!). Anyway the guy goes into his trick, which was pretty amazing, but he had no patter outside of just saying what he was doing. I mean that's fine, but he wasn't even looking at her, and it was just a bit strange. I asked if she wanted to see more magic, she said yes. I did spongeballs, kids started coming in, so I grab a volunteer and we do a terrible ACR which I've sinced improved. Anyway, when I finished, I saw one of the pros who I knew the name of (who was actually doing a show), and I told him these nice folks are waiting for a show, would he show them some tricks. He said he'd be happy to, I introduced him, and now this guy showed the difference (to me) between a professional and an amateur. I thought I was getting laughs, this guy was hilarious. He was so responsive. He was doing magic with everything, watches balloons, stuff he'd borrow. He convinced all of them to buy tickets to his show, and he did maybe about 10 minutes, but they were 10 solid minutes.

After that for the next couple of days the table became sort of split, half was these really flourishy cardistry guys and real move monkeys, the other half were a bunch of us who were just showing off anything from variations of the biddle trick to voodoo dolls. It was a ton of fun, and whenever anyone would wander over they would get sent to our side of the table where they were bombarded with magic.

Don't get me wrong, those cardistry guys were really nice and tons of fun (as long as you didn't try to fool 'em).

Thanks everyone who gave me all that advice, but I think I painted those fellas a little unfairly in response to that one incident. They were all really talented magicians, but tbh there was definitely a split between the ones that performed a lot, and the ones who were a little more interested in the technical side, and those guys in the technical side hated being fooled. Hated it. They had to know. Apart from that they were really nice, showed me a lot of cool moves/flourishes/routines I'll probably never use. I love practising the cardistry stuff, but it's a little too flashy for my taste.
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Chris M

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Reply with quote  #21 
Thanks for adding all those details to your story Chi Han - it really explains a lot! [smile]  And there's many interesting things to consider in your story too.  And the guy who looked at this phone comes across as a real jerk - as do those who badgered you about method all the time and 'accused' you.

"this guy showed the difference (to me) between a professional and an amateur. I thought I was getting laughs, this guy was hilarious. He was so responsive. He was doing magic with everything, watches balloons, stuff he'd borrow. He convinced all of them to buy tickets to his show, and he did maybe about 10 minutes, but they were 10 solid minutes."

Yup.  And this is exactly why I'm a casual amateur only - I cant do that, a decent pro can!  Until I got into magic I never really appreciated just how hard the performance aspect was - harder than the technical side. [smile]
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EVILDAN

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Reply with quote  #22 
Simon Lovell used to have magicians come up to him all the time and ask, "Want to see my classic pass?"
He'd answer, "No, I want to see what you can do with it."
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Wayne T

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Reply with quote  #23 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Magic-Aly
Oftentimes the seemingly most simple and straightforward effects - ones you'd never expect - will fool a magician.  My go to: They shuffle (can be their deck), they cut the deck into two packets, I apparently name the top card of each packet.  Seems to never fail. [crazy]


I like the simplicity of the trick you described above. Is it your own piece or possibly a variation of Daniel d'ortiz "2 piles" trick? I really like the 2 piles trick and practice it but have some difficulty with the method when naming the cards on the second or third turn over. It gets too sloppy with my poor execution gives away the method. In any event I will keep working on it.

The trick you describe seems much cleaner as the spectator does all the handling. Is it something available in a book/DVD or something you prefer to keep to yourself?

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JohnnyNewYork

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Reply with quote  #24 
When I first started learning magic (not that long ago) I had purchased only one book Lorayne's Classic Collection V1.  I rather prominent magician in my neck of the woods heard that I was starting to do a little magic and asked me to show him something.  I performed Lazy Man's Card Trick for him.  Perhaps he was expecting something along the lines of the 21 card trick or something of that nature, but it fooled the heck out of him (!), even though I'm sure he was aware of the routine in his much more extensive study of magic at that time.  Funny thing is, back then I was very calm about my performance (I wasn't really aware of how complex magic is,at least at that point in my life), and treated it very casually (which, by the way, is exactly what Mr. Lorayne stresses in his explanation of the rotuine).  It only goes to show you -- just about anything can fool anyone in the right circumstances, at the right moment, at the right time, with the right attitude.  Chi Han, I enjoy reading your experiences -- don't forget that many magicians can be fooled but don't admit it.   Happy holidays to everyone -- johnny
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EVILDAN

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Reply with quote  #25 
JohnnyNewYork makes a lot of sense.

There is a ton of card magic out there and unless you're another Michael Skinner you can only absorb and learn do much.

Stay away from what everyone else is performing. Find material that no one else is doing and isn't obvious in how it's done and you'll have some magician foolers in your arsenal.
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Wayne T

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Reply with quote  #26 
My apologies, I just realized my post above (#22) was more of a hijack by asking for the name of a trick rather than contributing to the subject of the thread.
 
While I am sure I don't do anything that would actually fool another magician, I would be very pleased if a magician would tell me that they understood how something I did was done, but that my presentation/technique was good.    

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trinimontes

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Reply with quote  #27 
I'm going to be a little biased here....
I like performing Overcast by yours truly. It's been a great trick for magicians. Have fooled the best of them with it.


Best,
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DJ

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Reply with quote  #28 
Trini,

I performed Overcast for family and friends this past Thanksgiving. They were blown away! Thanks for sharing it with us...great trick!

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Harrisgagnon

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Reply with quote  #29 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chi Han Yeo
I performed for some magicians at a festival recently, I did my best stuff, the audience tested routines, they weren't very impressed, fair enough I'm not so good. So I had some fun and did Top Level Test from JawDroppers. Not really expecting to fool anyone, and from their reactions I guessed I didn't, then one of them said to me "Nice culling." He asked me where I learnt it. I told him I don't usually cull, and didn't for that trick. He accused me of lying. Very perplexing for me. I did the trick I think twice more on different days by request. A few magicians liked the trick and were complimentary, but by and large I was talking to people who looked distinctly unimpressed and accused me of using everything from marked cards to science friction spray. After that whole debacle I've had much less enthusiasm for performing to magicians. It also cured my nerves performing for them too. If they're not going to enjoy it and just be grumpy, whats the point?


I agree I think trying to fool magicians sometimes is not interesting and is like a challenge that isn't fun. They are too focused on figuring it out which sometimes they do and sometimes they don't. Either way they don't enjoy to trick. If they don't figure it out they end up trying to say something so they don't look like they were fooled. I rarely preform for magicians anyway but if I wanted to fool them I would use something with the HaLo cut because the magicians I know don't know what that is. If I just met someone and wanted to fool them I would use something simple like my version of Do as I do which most don't know. 
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burak ünlüer

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Reply with quote  #30 
I am mostly performed tricks to my magician friends.So I perform;(if they don't know of course)

Prior commintment(some calls whispering jokers)
Devastation (definetly magician fooler)I have seen it from Geoff Williams lecture.
Ultimate magician scammer from Rich Ferguson.
İmpossible .From the dvd of ultimate self working card tricks.
Hypno deck from Karl Fulves
Music and mirror.From Robert Ramirez
Calculated cut from Karl Fulves
Hidden Power and tought echo from Karl Fulves
coincido from Larry Jennings
Hands off from Wayne Dobson
Arm Chair from Caleb Wiles
Self Control from Simon Aranson
Compatibility from Wayne Dobson
Two match from Al-Mann
Ten cuts but un gimmicked deck from Henry Evans
Lost And Found from Aldo Colombini
Over Burn from Shoot Ogawa
Lone Stranger and three way miracle from Nick Trost
three miracles from Luis Otero
And I don't know the names of the tricks from the lecture of Howard Hamburg
These are very strong routines to solves for the magician if they know the methode.



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magicfish

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Reply with quote  #31 
Halo Aces- from a borrowed, shuffled deck.
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Mind Phantom

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Reply with quote  #32 
Burak,

That's a very impressive list there. Which one of those that you listed is your favorite ?

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burak ünlüer

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Reply with quote  #33 
Hidden Power  and self control are my favs.
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Harry Lorayne

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Reply with quote  #34 
    Okay, I'm going to let my ego take over and be almost willing to bet (although he lists some good stuff) that burak doesn't have/hasn't read any of my books.
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Chris M

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Reply with quote  #35 
Some ideas:

The trick that fooled Eugene Burger (named because, well it did, lol)
Aronson's Prior Commitment (fooled Penn and Teller)
That semi-legendary thing that Pete Turner did with the sealed deck reversed card (lol)

I'd still go with a stooge. And maybe some hot reading, lol. [smile]
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burak ünlüer

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Reply with quote  #36 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Harry Lorayne
    Okay, I'm going to let my ego take over and be almost willing to bet (although he lists some good stuff) that burak doesn't have/hasn't read any of my books.


hi Harry
I have the apocalypse series, IMS Harry Lorayne, Best Ever, Best Teacher 4-5-6, and the IMS Gold Harry Lorayne Card and math magic.

But as I understand I missed some point.I had no time to finish apocalype
But I will.

Thanks for your comments.
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