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Claudio

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Reply with quote  #1 

For an effect I’m working on, I need to position 4 of a kind to position 1, 7, 13 and 18 from top while over-hand shuffling the cards. The four of a kind start on top.

While riffle stacking would be the simplest option here, I want to be able to do that during an OHS, or a combination of OHS with faros.

Here’s what I have come up with so far. It would be great if you would suggest shortcuts, or even a completely different handling:

The 4 aces are on top.

Pick up the deck in preparation for OHS and run top two Aces and throw deck on top.

Undercut half the pack and run 4 cards. Throw right hand packet to back.

Run 5 cards and throw right hand packet to back.

Position check from top: Ace, 4X, Ace, rest of pack and two Aces at bottom.

Undercut half deck, run 5 cards, throw right-hand cards on top but injog the bottom card (an Ace) during the throw.

Get a break at injog, adding the Ace to bottom half, and throw bottom packet on top.

Position check: Ace, 5X, Ace, 4X, Ace, remainder of deck and final Ace.

Undercut pack, run 5 cards and throw right-hand cards on top, but as previously, injog the bottom card (Ace) of the packet.

Cut pack at the injog and the Aces are now in the position required.

If you can improve on this, that would be great!!

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Chi Han

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Reply with quote  #2 

Hey Claudio!

Your method sounds great.  Just a possible alternative with the OHS.  I think this is just slightly less to remember:

 



Just to clarify, if you're starting with the cards on top, then it's a face up deck, the shuffle is slip, run off 4, slip, run off 4, slip, run off 3, slip, run off balance.

If starting from the bottom, then it's, slip, run off 3 cards, slip, run off 4, slip, run off 4, slip, in or outjog the remaining balance, then shuffle to the break.

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Chi Han

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Reply with quote  #3 
I should also mention that the above is not exactly what is done in erdnase, I think he just takes from the back, but i prefer slip shuffles, although I haven't practised this in a while as is obvious.
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Claudio

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Reply with quote  #4 
Hi Chi,

thank you very much for taking the time to shoot this (by the way what recording hardware are you using?)

I must admit that I had not thought of using a milk shuffle, though it had been suggested to me some place else.
Its' probably the quickest and easiest way to do the stacking, but I am sorry to say that I've never managed to make a milk shuffle look good.

Someone else suggested this handling that is pretty slick too:

Corner crimp the bottom card.

Run 1. Drop talon on top.
Run 13. Drop talon on top. Hold a break and cut the 13 cards to top.
Run 5 Drop talon on top.
Run 6. Drop talon on top.
Run 1. Drop talon on top.
Run 4. Drop talon on top.

Cut the crimped card to the bottom.

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Bulla

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Reply with quote  #5 
Out faro; Run 1, Milk, Run 1, Milk, Run 1, Milk, Run 1, Injog 1 and shuffle off; Push up at the injog, shuffle to the break and throw on top; Out faro.

The Aces are now at positions 1, 7, 13 and 19.  If you're dealing down to the aces you can just do a second deal on 18 or the way I've been doing it is as I'm just sort of gesturing with the cards after the shuffle I cull out one of the indifferent cards.  I hope all of that makes sense.  I know this uses milk shuffles but it's only 3 and since they happen with only a few cards in your hand it's pretty easy.  

I've been toying around with this ever since you posted it.  I didn't want to post anything until I was satisfied with the procedure to a point that I would do it myself.  I don't like doing long runs of single cards while stacking and I wanted it to look and feel like an actual shuffle.  Running 5 cards and throwing the deck on top doesn't satisfy that for me.  I also wanted to take advantage of the faro since it's a very efficient way of stacking multiple cards.  I would love to hear if you've came across any other solutions.

P.S. I can post a video of the shuffle sequence if you want to see what it looks like.
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Claudio

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Reply with quote  #6 

Thanks Bulla.

Your handling is direct and economical. If it were not for the milk sequence, I would adopt it in some occasions. In the effect I’ve been developing I let the spectator deal the cards face down. It would not be too much of an effort to displace one of the extra cards (between 14th and 18th) using a spread cull for example, as you suggested. If I were to deal myself, I would simply do a double deal at card 15th or 16th.

If you do have time I'd like to see what it looks like in your hands. The milk shuffle always looks suspicious and clunky in mine. Plus I have extra dry hands and that does not help.

If you’d like, at some point, I could PM you a short description of the effect I’m working on, for feedback. I am not sure at this stage whether it’s a nice effect or a procedural monstrosity.

On this TMC thread   you’ll find a couple of handlings using the faro, but yours is the first serious solution.

Currently, I have 2 workable solutions (possibly 3 with yours) to setup:

  • The first one relies on riffle shuffle stacking (4, 5, 5).
  • The second on the following OHS:

Get a left pinkie break under the last four bottom cards and transfer it to right thumb in preparation for an OHS.

Run 2 cards, throw all cards above the break, throw the last 4 cards but ensure that the last card is slightly in-jogged. (One way to do that is to use a Larry Jennings technique.)

Get a break under the 4 cards and run them as one, run 1 card, pick up the 5 cards (RRTCM’s lift shuffle technique) behind the talon and throw them on top. Undercut half the pack and run 5 cards.

Throw the talon on top but in-jog the bottom card (an Ace) during the throw (LJ’s technique.)
Get a break at in-jog, adding the Ace to bottom half, and throw bottom packet on top.

Undercut pack, run 5 cards and throw right-hand cards on top, but as previously, injog the bottom card (Ace) of the packet.

Cut pack at the in-jog and the Aces are now in the required positions.

This handling is not bad as it uses only a total of 13 single cards runs (2,1,5,5) which is rather little.

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Bulla

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Reply with quote  #7 
https://www.dropbox.com/s/hyowturkjni79fn/4CardStack.wmv?dl=0

Sorry for the late response.  Had trouble finding time to film it.  I kinda rushed through it and it probably didn't help that I was looking at my computer screen while recording.  I have the same problem as you with having really dry hands.  I've been using O'Keeffe's Working Hands hand cream and it works great.  I put the cream on like 30 secs before recording and it dries fast and there is no residue transfer to the cards.  Generally overhand shuffles look clunky and messy in a spectators hands anyway so maybe your milk shuffle is not as bad as you think.  Yeah I would love to hear more about the effect, maybe I can justify spending so much time trying to figure out a solution to this lol.
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Claudio

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Reply with quote  #8 

Nice! It looks really good in your hands.

I would only change a couple of things to fit my taste:

1st faro: I would faro one third of the top cards into the middle of the talon (ie. start action of a slough-off faro), but would keep a break under the top unwoven cards after shuffling. So that at the start of the milk sequence, I would have a block of about 12 cards in my left hand. I think it would look better.

Another thing is that possibly a lift shuffle (instead of the in-jog sequence) straight after the milk sequence would speed things up.

Anyway, thank you so much for devising that handling.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bulla

Yeah I would love to hear more about the effect, maybe I can justify spending so much time trying to figure out a solution to this lol.


Now, you're making me feel bad about this as I would not hold my breath about getting an effect worth performing [rolleyes] . I think I have a one good idea and method but I am not sure I have found the right effect/presentation for it.

I'll PM you a quick write-up in a couple of days.

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Bulla

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Reply with quote  #9 
Don't feel bad, I love solving puzzles and believe it or not I actually had a lot of fun and satisfaction in finding a solution to this one.  I like your idea about doing the faro under a block of cards.  I know you weren't keen on doing a milk shuffle so my initial goal was to keep it simple enough that you might actually give it a shot, but I think you're right about it looking better with a block of cards in your hand first.  While trying that out along with your suggestion of the lift shuffle, I realized that the second overhand shuffle is not needed.  In fact you don't even have to do a lift shuffle because you can just break at the injog and go straight in to the 2nd faro.
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Claudio

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Posts: 275
Reply with quote  #10 
Nice thinking for the OHS.

I've pm'd you the effect.
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