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CJmystic

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Hi everyone, my name is CJ, i'm a magician who lives in Chicago,Illinois. I took an interest in magic (Stage Magic) when i was thirteen years old, i'm thirty four years old now (2019) and as years went by i've switched from stage magic to street/close-up magic and i specialize in cards,coins and mentalism. Thank you for accepting me as a member and i hope to share and learn more from all of you in return.[smile]
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Anthony Vinson

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Hey, CJ, and welcome. Based on your description you will find plenty of fellow travelers here on TMF. Just join in on the conversations and make yourself at home. In order to help us with outreach and marketing, would you mind saying how you found us?

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Tom G

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Hi CJ,  Interesting combination of magic.  Do you find performing all 3 detracts from one?  IE doing a strong mentalism trick then taking out some coins?  I saw a lecture by a mentalist who also did close up who was adamant about not doing close up and mentalism in the same set. I've often wondered about that. 
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RayJ

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Welcome CJ!  You'll find this a fun group.  No drama, just helpful folks.  
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Wayne T

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Welcome CJ I and sure you will find many interesting people and topics here at the TMF.
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Bmat

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom G
Hi CJ,  Interesting combination of magic.  Do you find performing all 3 detracts from one?  IE doing a strong mentalism trick then taking out some coins?  I saw a lecture by a mentalist who also did close up who was adamant about not doing close up and mentalism in the same set. I've often wondered about that. 


I used to have a psychic as a customer.  He used to call me at the magic shop from the parking lot before he came in to make sure nobody was in the shop because he didn't want people to know his 'secret'   I understand that attitude in psychics, but mentalists may as well pull out the coins and cards.  I think most people understand that mentalism is another branch of magic. 

 

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Dave Campbell

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Welcome aboard... I'm sure you'll find the group as welcoming as I have!
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CJmystic

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[Anthony Vinson]Hey, CJ, and welcome. Based on your description you will find plenty of fellow travelers here on TMF. Just join in on the conversations and make yourself at home. In order to help us with outreach and marketing, would you mind saying how you found us?

I've always wanted to join a magician's forum and i have seen some other forums online but i just wasn't motivated to join.When i went on Yahoo and i typed in "FORUM FOR MAGIC" this particular forum was one of the first forums to show up on the list, i then took a look at some of your topics and content and i felt right at home.
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CJmystic

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[Tom G]Hi CJ,  Interesting combination of magic.  Do you find performing all 3 detracts from one?  IE doing a strong mentalism trick then taking out some coins?  I saw a lecture by a mentalist who also did close up who was adamant about not doing close up and mentalism in the same set. I've often wondered about that. 


Not really, all three areas of magic work well together for me and fit perfectly. Magicians like Rudy Hunter, Drummond Money Coutts, Troy Von Schiebner, Dynamo and many others who mix magic and mentalism effects were very big influences that made me decide to go this route and i love it.
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Wayne T

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bmat

I think most people understand that mentalism is another branch of magic. 


I don't agree as I can't get my head around that. [rofl]

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Tom G

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Reply with quote  #11 
Bmat, what the lecturer's theory was that if you hit someone with a strong mentalism piece and then whip out cards, coins, and sponge bunnies you're just a trickster or magician.  If you stick to mentalism, they'll go away thinking something way different.  I do see his point, although I don't do mentalism.
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Lucas Maillard

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Hi CJ and welcome to TMF.

I'm sure you'll learn a lot from the members of this forum.

Cheers,

Lucas.
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EVILDAN

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Welcome aboard.
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Robin Dawes

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Regarding the whole "mentalists should not do magic tricks" debate: surely there are as many opinions on this as there are magicians and mentalists ... and that's exactly the way it should be.

We've heard the theory "If I perform some mentalism and then do a card trick, people will think the mentalism was just a trick too".  I can imagine that happening.  But we've also heard reports of audience members saying "That card thing was a clever trick, but when you read my mind that was the real thing".

There's a similar theory that if you do a card trick and then perform some mentalism, the audience will respond 'Well I guess you read my mind to do that card trick too".  I can imagine that happening too.  But I've never actually had that response from an audience ... and if I had, so what?  It doesn't mean that they were less entertained. 

I'm not saying we should dismiss the theories - anything that gets us to think about our performances and reflect on our choices is probably a good thing.  But I think the real take-away is that our performances should be character-driven.  Everyone's performing persona should be unique (note to all the DaOrtiz wanna-be's : the floppy hat-thing isn't working for you) so everyone needs to find their own zone in the multi-dimensional space of mystery performance.

Tom G's adamant lecturer seems to have found out what is right for him - good!  May we all have the same good fortune.

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Tom G

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Correct Robin.  I was wondering what people's opinions were in addition to greeting CJmystic. I don't perform mentalism (at least the hardcore), but didn't know or see how they mix. A lot of the big timer's were card guys before making the move to mentalism. Cassidy, Ousterlind, Anneman(?), and Jared Kopf seems to be making the move to mentalism.  I'm sure there are many others. 
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RayJ

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Reply with quote  #16 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robin Dawes
Regarding the whole "mentalists should not do magic tricks" debate: surely there are as many opinions on this as there are magicians and mentalists ... and that's exactly the way it should be.

We've heard the theory "If I perform some mentalism and then do a card trick, people will think the mentalism was just a trick too".  I can imagine that happening.  But we've also heard reports of audience members saying "That card thing was a clever trick, but when you read my mind that was the real thing".

There's a similar theory that if you do a card trick and then perform some mentalism, the audience will respond 'Well I guess you read my mind to do that card trick too".  I can imagine that happening too.  But I've never actually had that response from an audience ... and if I had, so what?  It doesn't mean that they were less entertained. 

I'm not saying we should dismiss the theories - anything that gets us to think about our performances and reflect on our choices is probably a good thing.  But I think the real take-away is that our performances should be character-driven.  Everyone's performing persona should be unique (note to all the DaOrtiz wanna-be's : the floppy hat-thing isn't working for you) so everyone needs to find their own zone in the multi-dimensional space of mystery performance.

Tom G's adamant lecturer seems to have found out what is right for him - good!  May we all have the same good fortune.



I, also am not a mentalist but have attended performances by mentalists.  A recent one was a university student.  He began by introducing himself and by telling the audience that he was studying psychology and became intrigued by the power of the human mind.  That led him to read about experiments in ESP and work of Dr. Rhine.  

He dressed all in black and the stage lighting set a mood that fit the performance.  He remained in character the entire time.  He did not use playing cards in all of his "experiments", but he did for a couple of them.  The other ones used slates, paper, etc.

I think he did a decent job.  Had he done an outright magic trick I think the performance as a whole would have suffered.  He didn't even refer to magic during his show.

If we were voting you could count me as one who thinks a serious mentalist should stay away from "magic tricks".  If he/she uses playing cards they need to be viewed simply as a medium in order to conduct the experiment.  Otherwise it becomes another card trick.
For that reason, any exhibition of skill must be downplayed.  Basic shuffles only, nothing fancy.  And if the spectator can do most of the mixing, so much the better.
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Anthony Vinson

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Reply with quote  #17 
Ray,

I think you make Robin's point when he wrote, "But I think the real take-away is that our performances should be character-driven.  Everyone's performing persona should be unique (note to all the DaOrtiz wanna-be's : the floppy hat-thing isn't working for you) so everyone needs to find their own zone in the multi-dimensional space of mystery performance."

It sounds like the mentalist you saw spent some time developing his character and tailoring his act to his audience's expectations. Good on him.

Personally I believe that most people understand that mentalism is a form of magic. (Yes, there are those who are true believers, but they reside in a different reality.) From that perspective, a mixing of the two shouldn't matter so long as the effects are consistent with the performer's character. And to Tom's point, one of the best sleight of hand performers I ever had the pleasure of witnessing eventually turned to strictly mentalism. I am speaking of Gary Kurtz.

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RayJ

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Reply with quote  #18 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anthony Vinson
Ray,

I think you make Robin's point when he wrote, "But I think the real take-away is that our performances should be character-driven.  Everyone's performing persona should be unique (note to all the DaOrtiz wanna-be's : the floppy hat-thing isn't working for you) so everyone needs to find their own zone in the multi-dimensional space of mystery performance."

It sounds like the mentalist you saw spent some time developing his character and tailoring his act to his audience's expectations. Good on him.

Personally I believe that most people understand that mentalism is a form of magic. (Yes, there are those who are true believers, but they reside in a different reality.) From that perspective, a mixing of the two shouldn't matter so long as the effects are consistent with the performer's character. And to Tom's point, one of the best sleight of hand performers I ever had the pleasure of witnessing eventually turned to strictly mentalism. I am speaking of Gary Kurtz.

Av 


AV, I knew about Gary Kurtz turning to strictly mentalism, but haven't read whether he did it for a specific reason.  

Do you believe that he or at least some do it because it is a less crowded genre?

Or for other reasons?
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Bill Guinee

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Reply with quote  #19 
Great to have you in the forum, CJ. I hope you enjoy it as much as I have.
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