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knuckleflasher

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As you can see, I'm Hilingual. 

Hello, Magicians Forum!

I've been a student of magic since around 1989. I take a lot of inspiration from the likes of Eugene Burger, Rob Zabrecky, Tony Andruzzi, Steve Forte, Richard Turner, Jason England, Tommy Wonder, Syldini, Capps, Malone, Lorayne, Annemann, Cassidy, Banachek, and on and on. Of course Vernon, Marlo, etc... goes without saying for most magicians I suppose. (although I did say it!)

I appreciate the story and presentation behind good Bizarre Magic to the finesse and mastery of those who are adept at Gambling demonstrations and everything in between.

I love discussing Magic theory and Magic history is important to me.

I'm currently reinventing my bottom deal. (It feels kinda spooky!) I've used the technique described by Ed Marlo in his Second, Centers, Bottoms for quite a while now. I have decided that I want to learn Gene Maze's technique as described in "Gene Maze and The Art of Bottom Dealing." I've read through the text and have begun practicing it for about three days now.  

I know fellas like Steve Forte and Jason England use slightly different pressure than Gene did and I'll experiment with that at some point also but for now I think I should learn it exactly as it is described and then when I get that to where it is comfortable I'll play around.

Anyway, nice to be here and I'll see you around. 


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DJ

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Reply with quote  #2 
Welcome knuckleflasher! If you haven't already you might be interested in checking out Jason England's Bottom Deal download. He goes over many different techniques including Gene Maze's. You can purchase it separately or as a part of the Foundations package.
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knuckleflasher

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Quote:
Originally Posted by DJ
Welcome knuckleflasher! If you haven't already you might be interested in checking out Jason England's Bottom Deal download. He goes over many different techniques including Gene Maze's. You can purchase it separately or as a part of the Foundations package.


Thanks, Dan!

I've seen Jason's Bottom Deal video and it's a great resource as are most things put out by him.

I'm having slight difficulty with the Maze grip, however, since it is something brand new to me AND I am learning a different technique that is drastically different than what I am used to, I'm sure it is just a matter of putting in the hours before that slight complication works itself out.

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DJ

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Reply with quote  #4 
Ive also been playing around with different techniques for a bottom deal but haven't found one that works for me yet. Closest ones I can get to feel comfortable and look decent involve a straddle grip. Hopefully you get to a point where something works for you. Good luck!
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RayJ

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Reply with quote  #5 
Welcome knuckleflasher.  As you are aware, I'm sure, Erdnase listed bottom dealing as the most important gambling maneuver to acquire.

"THE art of dealing from the bottom, although not the most difficult to attain, is perhaps the most highly

prized accomplishment in the repertory of the professional. The bottom is the most convenient place for
retaining desirable cards during the shuffle or riffle, and perfection in dealing from that position obviates to
a great extent the necessity of stocking, as the cards can be dealt at will, and consequently need not be
run up in a certain order. Like acquiring many other feats, a perfect understanding of the exact manner in
which it is performed will avoid the principal difficulties. Practice will soon do the rest."

So your work will certainly be rewarded!  

Glad to have you here.

Ray

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knuckleflasher

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Reply with quote  #6 
Quote:
Originally Posted by RayJ
Welcome knuckleflasher.  As you are aware, I'm sure, Erdnase listed bottom dealing as the most important gambling maneuver to acquire.

"THE art of dealing from the bottom, although not the most difficult to attain, is perhaps the most highly

prized accomplishment in the repertory of the professional. The bottom is the most convenient place for
retaining desirable cards during the shuffle or riffle, and perfection in dealing from that position obviates to
a great extent the necessity of stocking, as the cards can be dealt at will, and consequently need not be
run up in a certain order. Like acquiring many other feats, a perfect understanding of the exact manner in
which it is performed will avoid the principal difficulties. Practice will soon do the rest."

So your work will certainly be rewarded!  

Glad to have you here.

Ray



Thanks, Ray!

I'm a big fan of bottom dealing. It is probably my favorite technique and the one I was using up until this current endeavor of reinvention (mentioned in my first post) I did fairly well. I'm not in any way claiming flawlessness but it is a workable base deal as far as in the context of magic is concerned. 

Would I have used it in someones private home game for cash? Most definitely not.

I'm seeking for a bottom deal that I WOULD be comfortable using in a private home game, but I would not actually do so. Not necessarily for any moral or ethical reasons, but because my late grandfather Wally F. McMurphy told me when I was 6 years old: "Never cheat at poker in a house where you don't know all the exits."

Thanks, again!



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RayJ

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Reply with quote  #7 
I mentioned Erdnase but certainly wasn't suggesting using the bottom deal in actual gambling.  Personally I do believe it is both morally and ethically wrong to cheat.  Now that I got that out of the way, more on my thoughts about the bottom deal.

First, I have never been a big fan of adopting special grips for bottoms.  For that reason, the buckle and disengagement method is one of my favorites.  The other that appeals is the strike bottom.  You still have issues with friction but with work they can be overcome.

If you haven't, I recommend that you look at 'The Card Classics of Ken Krenzel' to review his ideas on the bottom deal.  This is a great book, written by our fellow TMF member Harry Lorayne.  There are three bottom deals discussed and detailed.  I particularly like the Thumb-grip Bottom Deal, it is very disarming.  For situations where you only need one or two deals, it is perfect.

As you know, most tricks that require deals, require them sparingly.  Gambling demos that feature multiple deals in a row are the exception.  That is another thing that affects which bottom deal you go with.

Happy dealing!
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knuckleflasher

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Reply with quote  #8 
Quote:
Originally Posted by RayJ
I mentioned Erdnase but certainly wasn't suggesting using the bottom deal in actual gambling.  Personally I do believe it is both morally and ethically wrong to cheat.


It wasn't my intention to imply that you were suggesting anything of the sort. I was writing with tongue in cheek about that as I would also not cheat at gambling unless it was under very special circumstances.

Those resources sound amazing, thank you. 😉

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SamtheNotasBadasIWas

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Reply with quote  #9 
Greetings. You will find this forum to friendly and helpful. Best of luck to you. Sam
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Paco Nagata

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Reply with quote  #10 
You didn't mention Tamariz!
We won't get along, man : - (
Just joking : - )
Welcome, Bienvenido, knuckleflasher!
to this wonderful forum plenty of wonderful people : - D

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Mbreggar

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Reply with quote  #11 
Welcome aboard! Gotta love your user name!
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