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SamtheNotsoMagnificent

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Reply with quote  #1 
I was practicing my palming and retention vanishes, just sort of playing around, and I noticed that if I held my Kennedy half dollar at the very bottom edge and pointing to my left (I'm right handed), and relaxed my grip just a bit, it would pivot down and allow me to use my middle finger to bring it into classic palm. I've never seen this move done before to my knowledge, but I figured somebody must have used it sometime, or it has been tried and rejected. Does anyone know if this is used on any vanishes and if so, which ones. Or, if it isn't used, why not?

Thanks,
Sam
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RayJ

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Reply with quote  #2 
What you are describing sounds like a pivot vanish.  Some use gravity to make the coin pivot while others press it against the other hand and cause it to rotate.  There are tons of things people "come up with" when playing around with coins and cards and re-invention is common.  Great minds think alike, right?

Regarding using it, hey, if it looks good, use it.  But remember The Professor's advice to "be natural".  The "problem" with some ROV vanishes is that the grip is weird.  The vanish becomes "eye candy" and we magicians fawn over it, but I think the general public is less than convinced.  If you are going to be natural then you have to justify your actions.  In other words, is there a reason to be holding the coin in such a manner in the first place.  Some have suggested that you pick the coin up in the right hand and comment on the date or something and maneuver the coin into the starting grip as you display it.  That is certainly better than saying "Now I'll place this coin in the left hand" while you go through contortions to get the coin into the perfect starting position for your ROV vanish.  It just looks contrived.  

Sorry for going off on a tangent, but just as there are card magicians that flaunt their skill while others make miracles happen seemingly without any intervention on their part, coin magic is subject to the same fate.  You have to ultimately decide which camp to be in.  
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MagicTK

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Reply with quote  #3 
Sam,

That's cool you are playing around seeing what all is possible.  Nice discovery, and great idea to post here to ask if something already exists.  This site is filled with many very knowledgeable, very well read magicians.  Keep 'em coming!


Great advice as usual, Ray.

Some contrived moves can occasionally be made to look more natural if you handle the object smoothly, kind of like this how everybody does it.  Like it just doesn't matter.  And yes, don't call attention to your actions, unless there is a specific reason why you need to mention it.  Otherwise, just do the move.

Tom
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SamtheNotsoMagnificent

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Reply with quote  #4 
Ah, pivot vanish, I should have thought of that. I appreciate the response because it's hard to research something if you don't know what term to look up and I don't know all of the vernacular magicians use yet. Many thanks.

I am trying to learn things that are thematic. For example, I'm working on an ambitious card routine where the Ace of Spades keeps "ruining" my trick because it keeps jumping to the top of the deck because it wants to be the center of attention, so I am only looking for tricks that support that idea so it seems natural as I go to more and more elaborate measures to keep it from coming back to the top, all to no avail of course.
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SamtheNotsoMagnificent

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Oh, and I agree, this IS a great site with great peeps!
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RayJ

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Reply with quote  #6 
Quote:
Originally Posted by SamtheNotsoMagnificent
Ah, pivot vanish, I should have thought of that. I appreciate the response because it's hard to research something if you don't know what term to look up and I don't know all of the vernacular magicians use yet. Many thanks.

I am trying to learn things that are thematic. For example, I'm working on an ambitious card routine where the Ace of Spades keeps "ruining" my trick because it keeps jumping to the top of the deck because it wants to be the center of attention, so I am only looking for tricks that support that idea so it seems natural as I go to more and more elaborate measures to keep it from coming back to the top, all to no avail of course.


Don England in Technical Knockouts has a routine with the ace of spades that keeps showing up.  It is a multiple selection routine.  Neat premise.
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magicfish

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Reply with quote  #7 
See John Carney's masterful treatment of the cylinder and coins.
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Robin Dawes

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Reply with quote  #8 
Quote:
Originally Posted by RayJ


Don England in Technical Knockouts has a routine with the ace of spades that keeps showing up.  ...


David Regal has a routine in Star Quality in which he repeatedly finds the Ace of Spades - on top, on the bottom, in the middle of the deck, etc and discards it face down each time.  The pile of discarded Aces of Spades is finally flipped face up to reveal the entire Spade suit, in order.
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RayJ

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Reply with quote  #9 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robin Dawes


David Regal has a routine in Star Quality in which he repeatedly finds the Ace of Spades - on top, on the bottom, in the middle of the deck, etc and discards it face down each time.  The pile of discarded Aces of Spades is finally flipped face up to reveal the entire Spade suit, in order.


Thanks Robin, good to know.
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Michaelblue

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Reply with quote  #10 
In my opinion, retention placements are best when used as an in transit action. Like you Put the coin in your left hand so your right hand can pick something up, other coins or whatever. That would cover the odd motion of the retention placement. Yours would work well that way.
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jim ferguson

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Reply with quote  #11 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Michaelblue
In my opinion, retention placements are best when used as an in transit action. Like you Put the coin in your left hand so your right hand can pick something up, other coins or whatever. That would cover the odd motion of the retention placement. Yours would work well that way.



There should ALWAYS be a reason for taking/placing the coin in the other hand, regardless of which type of "pass" we are using. And the best reasons are usually self evident, and don't require an explicit explanation.

Doing the transfer for no apparent reason is best left to coin manipulation, rather than coin magic.


Jim





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Michaelblue

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Reply with quote  #12 
Yes sir
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