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MagicOrthodoxy

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Reply with quote  #1 
Since Dai VernonLarry JenningsEd MarloLee Asher, Frank Simon, Chris Kenner, Earl Nelson, Dan & Dave Buck, Wayne Houchin, and many other notable sleight of hand artists have been seen playing with Jerry's Nugget playing cards....

I was just curious as to your thoughts about now having the possibility of owning a reproduction of history.  Collectible? Get a brick to perform with? Now affordable could make your own gaffs? 



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RayJ

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Reply with quote  #2 
Thanks David! While I never would have paid the premium others have to get an original deck I will probably purchase these when the campaign begins.

Love your reviews!
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Wayne T

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Reply with quote  #3 
Even though these are repos I wouldn't mind getting a few decks if they are reasonably priced. I have a couple of the Chicken Nugget (same overall colour and design) decks which I use in a Stolen Cards deck but the repos would be nice.

Looking forward to the details.

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EVILDAN

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Reply with quote  #4 
This is just a little off topic but let's say you do buy an original deck of Jerry's Nuggets for $500.00; what do you do with them? Do you crack them open and use them in your next gig? Do you just practice with them and enjoy everything they allow you to do? Do you put in in a case on your magic shelf? Do you put it in a bank safety deposit box?

Just wondering what people do with them.
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Tom G

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Reply with quote  #5 
Got that right Dan.  I'm fine with Bike Elites.  Even these $8-15 decks you can keep.  I had an original Jerry's Nugget deck and it was nice, but would never pay $500 for one, even if I won the lottery.  According to the hype they can't be made as the original decks were.  So I guess it depends what you want, and then there's Kickstarter.... 
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JWSM

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Reply with quote  #6 
the originals are amazing, i own them and  they are easily my favorite cards. my teacher has a stockpile of original jerry's nugget cards from las vegas..

It's a shame that the reproductions can't be made the same as the originals!
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EVILDAN

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Reply with quote  #7 
JWSM, how do they differ from other decks? What makes them special. I heard all about how they were made with special finishes that can't be done today, embossed on one side with cotton rollers instead of metal, etc. But how do they handle different than other decks that make them so desired.
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Anthony Vinson

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Reply with quote  #8 
I cannot believe that they are remarkably superior to any other premium paper card. If they were, some enterprising entrepreneur would've figured out the formula, manufactured them, and sold them along with the other $20.00 and up decks available on several sites. What we're dealing with here is hyperbole, most likely. That's not to say that aficionados don't have their reasons for preferring the cards, but those reasons are mental more than physical.

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JWSM

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Reply with quote  #9 
EVILDAN,


i was handling them earlier after i read this post and they just glide in my hands, and my deck is OLD and has been handled A LOT.. compare them to my Turner bicycles (which were gifted to me by Richard himself) and there's no question which is superior.. people will say they are hyped and they are, but for good reason. i handled bicycles that are still relatively new and they're starting to clump up on me already.

shuffling and overall card handling in general, to me is better when using Jerry's Nugget... it's like they stay "new" no matter how much you handle them..

It's almost like if you want to elevate your card magic, you start with the essential classics, and for me if you want cards to compliment your handling skills, Jerry's nugget (originals) should be on your want list. 

Turner BEE cards, out of the box, remind me of Jerry's nugget cards in terms of how they feel and handle, which make the Turner Bees superior to his Bicycle cards.

You really have to handle the nuggets and do some work with them to truly understand what people are talking about, just all around quality.

It's all subjective of course........ But they are superior to the other decks i own, with turner bees coming in at 2nd...

Justin
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Frank Zak

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Reply with quote  #10 
I remember buying Kerry's Nugget decks from Jerry's Nugget for $1 a deck. I used them for practice but I always felt that they were to stiff for me.
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JWSM

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Reply with quote  #11 
I would like to add that it obviously makes sense to not just jump on the hype train over a deck of cards and i probably wouldn;t have either, if i didn't own a deck.

I was with my teacher one night and he mentioned that  he was talking to "richie" Turner and was getting some of his decks and we started talking about our favorite cards.. I mentioned that i love the look of the Nugget cards and he said "I got a bunch of those decks, here ya go" and just gave them to me lol...

and they were cards that he using at the time.. right out the box they felt like they hadn't been handled before.. I was sold!

They're beautiful, have some weight and move effortlessly through any sleights..


I don't say any of this to brag and i'm only talking about this stuff because the topic came up.... I wouldn't advise spending hundreds on any cards unless you have spare cash... then you should get some nuggets!!

And to be honest if i thought these cards were crap, i'd tell you because i have nothing to gain by hyping these cards up, if you knew me, you'd know that i call "crap"  on anything in 2 seconds lol..

I've handled a lot of "good decks" and they all let me down in some way, the Nugget has been the only cards that have been consistent for me..


Justin
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Tom G

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Reply with quote  #12 
Back then they were much better than any deck (not a whole lot to choose from).  I loved the way they handled and I believe they cost more than a Bike deck by just a little. I bought a few decks, but obviously there was no gaffs available.
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EVILDAN

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Reply with quote  #13 
Thanks. I understand now. I have an old deck of Tally Hos from the 70s that are like that. For some reason I pull them out and they fan, spread and handle like a dream.
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Wayne T

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Reply with quote  #14 
Does anyone have any experience with Kick Starter campaigns? Does everyone who pays/contributes actually get cards?

I remember an old story when some guy used Kickstarter to fund the development and production of "World's Greatest Cooler" (not sure with that type of hyperbole if Trump was involved or not) but in the end he collected all kinds of money and never delivered.

If there some risk for the "investors" of these types of campaigns or are their funds protected until delivery?

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Tom G

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Reply with quote  #15 
I know a number of people that got burnt on Kickstarter for different things.  Dave Forrest collected a lot of money for some chop cup a couple of years ago, and only a few have received their sets.  I think the investment was around $100. 
I won't have anything to do with Kickstarter, figure if you have a good idea, finance it yourself, and all the risk and profit are yours.  I don't think your funds are protected as the people that haven't received their chop cups from Forrest are pretty p'd.  Possibly, if the total amount doesn't get funded, you do get a refund.  Someone that has dealt with KS would know better.  I was going to invest in something (non-magic) and read up a little.  Turns out I kept my money.  The product did come out and everyone received one... but not much later a "better" version came out from the same people.
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DJ

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Reply with quote  #16 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wayne T
Does anyone have any experience with Kick Starter campaigns? Does everyone who pays/contributes actually get cards?


I recently received playing cards from a Kickstarter campaign that I participated in.  The cards came but the fulfillment and delivery of the playing cards took over a year due to the size of the campaign and the volume of the production (eventhough the campaign was printed by USPCC).  I have also heard stories of people losing out on money for campaigns they've supported.  In the end I think it comes down to the creator of the campaign and their reputation, if they have one.  

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Anthony Vinson

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Reply with quote  #17 
Caveat investor. If it's something you believe in, and you've thoroughly vetted the producers, then go for it. Otherwise, it's probably best to let it go. Either way, and as Tom pointed out, if it's a profitable idea, someone will secure the funding.

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RayJ

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Reply with quote  #18 
Quote:
Originally Posted by JWSM
EVILDAN,


i was handling them earlier after i read this post and they just glide in my hands, and my deck is OLD and has been handled A LOT.. compare them to my Turner bicycles (which were gifted to me by Richard himself) and there's no question which is superior.. people will say they are hyped and they are, but for good reason. i handled bicycles that are still relatively new and they're starting to clump up on me already.

shuffling and overall card handling in general, to me is better when using Jerry's Nugget... it's like they stay "new" no matter how much you handle them..

It's almost like if you want to elevate your card magic, you start with the essential classics, and for me if you want cards to compliment your handling skills, Jerry's nugget (originals) should be on your want list. 

Turner BEE cards, out of the box, remind me of Jerry's nugget cards in terms of how they feel and handle, which make the Turner Bees superior to his Bicycle cards.

You really have to handle the nuggets and do some work with them to truly understand what people are talking about, just all around quality.

It's all subjective of course........ But they are superior to the other decks i own, with turner bees coming in at 2nd...

Justin


Turner's Bicycle Gold Seal cards ARE printed on Bee stock.  That is one of the selling points along with the fact that they are traditionally cut (face up) and are better for tabled faro shuffles.

What many found good about the Nugget cards was their durability.  They are quite stiff and resist warping.  Lee Asher, who is a fan of the cards also likes Fournier for that reason, stiff and durable.
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JWSM

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Reply with quote  #19 
RayJ,

I'm aware that Turner's Bicycles are printed on bee stock, but the difference between the 2 is the finish. I have both in front of me, the bees are cambric finish and the gold seal's are air cushion finish.

That's why, to me the bee's remind of the nugget.. They have a similar feel, weight etc... to me.

I agree with lee about durability and the stiffness is perfect...


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RayJ

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Reply with quote  #20 
Quote:
Originally Posted by JWSM
RayJ,

I'm aware that Turner's Bicycles are printed on bee stock, but the difference between the 2 is the finish. I have both in front of me, the bees are cambric finish and the gold seal's are air cushion finish.

That's why, to me the bee's remind of the nugget.. They have a similar feel, weight etc... to me.

I agree with lee about durability and the stiffness is perfect...




From Playingcards.com

This means that the different terms used on differently branded USPCC produced decks today often refer to the same thing. For example, the "Air-Cushion finish" (Bicycle decks), "Linoid finish" (Tally Ho decks), or "Cambric finish" (Bee decks), in reality are all identical today. To complicate matters, the legal department of USPCC made a peculiar ruling at one stage to designate all Bicycle branded decks as having an "Air-Cushion finish", regardless of the actual finish or texture! In reality these different finish names are legacies from the days when decks did have unique coatings/finishes, which were applied with fabric/cloth-rollers. Nowadays the texture is no longer in the coating, but is crushed into the paper with steel rollers to create an embossed effect, and this is identical for all USPCC decks that are embossed rather than smooth. 

Cards just aren't made the same as they used to be.  VOC laws have eliminated a lot of the "good stuff".
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RayJ

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Reply with quote  #21 
This is a pretty good primer on why cards differ and how handling is affected by those differences.

https://playingcarddecks.com/blogs/all-in/factors-that-affect-the-handling-of-a-deck
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JWSM

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Reply with quote  #22 
https://slimcard.tumblr.com/post/164640739877/blue-seals-red-seals-black-seal-aristocrat


some more info...
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RayJ

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Reply with quote  #23 



Good information there.

I have in my "collection" several packs of USPCC cards from the late '70s.  I have Bicycle Fan Back, Angel Back Squeezers, Aristocrats and Blue Ribbon.  Might have some others but those are for sure.  All of those cards are excellent.  The Aristocrats have the smooth finish and as such do not fan nearly as well as the "textured" cards.  

I saw where they re-released the Blue Ribbon recently.  It is one of my favorite back designs.  The Aristocrats were re-released a few years ago but they now have the textured finish.  Angel Back Squeezers are another gorgeous back design.  

With all of the new decks coming out it is truly the golden age, but my favorites are still the old USPCC patterns.  Bicycle Racer Backs are still one of my favorites.  Dai Vernon is featured using them in several manuscripts.  True classics.

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Lucas Maillard

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Reply with quote  #24 
As a big fan of Dominique Duvivier's work, I've been used to see these cards for a long time.

I'll probably buy a brick or two if the price is reasonable. Otherwise I'll stick to my Tally's.

I can hardly wait to see the prices for the decks though. Let's hope for a good surprise.
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RandySager

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Reply with quote  #25 
The Jerry's Nugget cards were not anything special. At the time that they were available from Jerry's Nugget at a very cheap price. There were other decks that casinos we're using that were of much better quality. Bob Stupacks Vegas world was one of those casinos at that time. So was was Sam's Town Gambling Hall and Casino at that time if I am not mistaken. As I said the Jerry's Nugget cards were only used by magicians due to the fact that the decks were dirt cheap.

The reason for the cards being dirt cheap was the casino didn't like how they looked. The decks back design was butt ugly.
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RayJ

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Reply with quote  #26 
Quote:
Originally Posted by RandySager
The Jerry's Nugget cards were not anything special. At the time that they were available from Jerry's Nugget at a very cheap price. There were other decks that casinos we're using that were of much better quality. Bob Stupacks Vegas world was one of those casinos at that time. So was was Sam's Town Gambling Hall and Casino at that time if I am not mistaken. As I said the Jerry's Nugget cards were only used by magicians due to the fact that the decks were dirt cheap.

The reason for the cards being dirt cheap was the casino didn't like how they looked. The decks back design was butt ugly.


The decks were originally meant for the tables and ended up in the gift shop.  That much is true.  The cost was initially $.50 per pack.

Regarding quality, many top performers beg to differ.  They love them.  Dai Vernon liked them, Chris Kenner, Lee Asher, Duvivier, etc.  Someone is rumored to have bought 40,000 decks and still has most of them.

Yes, there is a lot of hype around them, but so what?  Nobody has to buy them.

The originals are thick, stiff and according to what I have heard last a long, long time before becoming unuseable.

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

To each his/her own.  
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RandySager

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Reply with quote  #27 
I don't know of anyone in Vegas back then ever saying that they lasted longer than other decks. There were decks that were said to have that qualities we're the Vegas World, and Sam's Town cards. Golden Nugget cards were classy and had those qualities as well.
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Anthony Vinson

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Reply with quote  #28 

I am of the opinion that the superlative qualities of Jerry’s Nuggets are urban legend. Most magicians, at least of a certain age, have heard of them. Some have wrapped their mitts around a deck. (I did back in the 70s and don’t remember them as particularly remarkable. But lots of water has spilled over the dam, so who knows?) But most of us know them by reputation. What we are left with are fallacious arguments. There’s the appeal to authority: this person or that person liked/loved them. There’s the argument from antiquity: their reputation has lasted so long, so what they say must be true. There’s the argument from ignorance. I could go on.

I contend that with the enormous number of custom playing card decks available today there are any number of decks that exceed the legendary qualities of Jerry’s Nuggets, and for a fraction of the cost.

 

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EVILDAN

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Reply with quote  #29 
Check out Chris Ramsey's channel on YouTube. He cracks open a deck of original Jerry's Nuggets and compares them to one of the new decks that he was given. No spoilers here. If you're interested, go check it out.
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Anthony Vinson

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Reply with quote  #30 
Okay, Evil One, will do. Thing is, even if Chris gushes over the Nuggets it does nothing to prove their superiority, and, as you describe, he's comparing them to a single, apparently arbitrary deck. Besides, if anyone is predisposed to a bias toward Nuggets, it'd be a magician...

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Anthony Vinson

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Reply with quote  #31 
Okay? Color me dense, Evil One, but I don't get it. Lots of cuts, lots of footage of Chris and cards, but nothing substantive that I could determine. Help me out.

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EVILDAN

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Reply with quote  #32 
Chris rcvd the original Jerry's as a gift from Dan and Dave. He was going to keep it sealed and for display, but then he also rcvd the boxed set of the deck to come. A few people rcvd them, not sure how many.

But everyone is asking what makes the originals so much better and so desired. He does a show where he opens both. Right off the bat he says he doesn't like the feel of the originals. They aren't cards that he likes to work with. He opens the newer Jerry's and says he likes the feel of those better.

So, the the mystique of old Jerry's blown away by one man's opinion. Apparently everyone doesn't find them as good to use as others do. So personally, I don't feel so bad that I don't on a deck. I will try our the new ones though.
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Anthony Vinson

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Reply with quote  #33 
Okay, I get it now. Still, though, it is, as you say, an opinion, so in essence you and I agree on the fundamentals that much of the mystique is based on lore. 

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EndersGame

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Reply with quote  #34 
Quote:
Originally Posted by RayJ
 Someone is rumored to have bought 40,000 decks and still has most of them.

This figure is often quoted in discussions and articles about Jerry's Nugget decks.

However, I have determined that this is not factual.  At most, it was only 14,000 decks. 

The person who made the purchase was French magician Dominique Duvivier, and I have corresponded personally with him about this, as well as consulted several other first-hand sources.  

Read the full story here:

The Case of the Missing 40,000 Jerry Nugget Decks: A Detective Story
https://playingcarddecks.com/blogs/all-in/the-case-of-the-missing-40-000-jerry-nugget-decks-a-detective-story

Dominique Duvivier

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TheAmazingStanley

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Reply with quote  #35 
Quote:
Originally Posted by EVILDAN
Chris rcvd the original Jerry's as a gift from Dan and Dave. He was going to keep it sealed and for display, but then he also rcvd the boxed set of the deck to come. A few people rcvd them, not sure how many.

But everyone is asking what makes the originals so much better and so desired. He does a show where he opens both. Right off the bat he says he doesn't like the feel of the originals. They aren't cards that he likes to work with. He opens the newer Jerry's and says he likes the feel of those better.

So, the the mystique of old Jerry's blown away by one man's opinion. Apparently everyone doesn't find them as good to use as others do. So personally, I don't feel so bad that I don't on a deck. I will try our the new ones though.


I love Ramsay’s channel, even if the “yo”s and rapid fire editing give me a headache. But he also has another video where he compares a very rare and expensive cardistry deck to an off the shelf Bicycle deck blindfolded. He ends up cringing at his oenophilic gushing over the Bikes, thinking they were the rare deck. Made me wonder how much different from one another playing cards really are.

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