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JenniferG

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Reply with quote  #1 
Wow, I didn't realize Juan pretty much moved on from Mnemonica years ago, although still performs with Mnemonica on TV.  He switched to a two faro deck, similar to Si Stebbens / Redford, which he calls The Exhibition Deck.  (Wondering if any of you have played around with this new deck of his.). He explains his new deck in DVD #2 "Magic From My Heart". 

After playing around with Redford Stack the past few days, I've realized a few huge advantages of it over Mnemonica, e.g.:

1) Within like 15 seconds I can transform the Redford Stack into Si Stebbens and back to Redford with the exact same formula and 15 seconds.  This opens up a huge amount of circular / mathematical stack tricks which can't be done with non circular memdeck.

2) I can transform the Redford stack in my hands standing up into a "Memorized Stay Stack" in like 20  seconds. I can easily transform it back to The Redford Stack from Memorized Stay Stack in the same time.  And I can't believe it.. the last 26 cards of this Redford Stay Stack are the last 26 cards of the stack.  So it's a MEMORIZED version of the Stay Stack.. think of the possibilities with that!  Tim Heinlein told me there are tons of tricks which use Stay Stack.  Are there any good books which have a lot of Stay Stack tricks in them?  I am interested in getting into these magic tricks. The Stay Stack you are in before you get into Mnemonica (i.e. 4 out faro from European NDO) is not memorized at all , and it is so much harder getting into from Mnemonica, having to do a tabled routine discarding 36 cards to undo a faro, then reverse top 26 cards.

3) Can get into Si Stebbens in like 20 seconds from US New Deck Order.  And then from there like 10 seconds to get into Redford.  I really love that it's only two faros. 

I've memorized the Redford stack well and am now wondering about The Exhibition Deck. I guess I better learn all about it as well.  But I imagine it has the same advantages as listed above and perhaps some other things as well. 


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Matt G

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Reply with quote  #2 
The routine called Temporarily Out of Order from the book of the same book pretty much outlines the whole power of the Redford Stack in one really powerful, organized routine:



"Zeroth" phase -- really cool deck switch & force taught in the book. First phase -- nice memdeck trick. Second phase -- nice trick exploring how easy it is to get into stay stack. Third phase -- stay stack. Fourth phase -- Redford Stack <-> Stay Stack. Fifth phase -- how easy it is to get back into Stebbins/NDO.

Regarding Stay Stack specific books/routines, there's some good food for thought here: 
https://www.themagiciansforum.com/post/stay-stack-routines-that-maintain-order-9769265

I'd also throw Woody Aragon's Memorandum into the mix as something worth reading for memorized deck work and it has a chapter dedicated to stay stack routines as well.
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Paco Nagata

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Reply with quote  #3 
Quote:
Originally Posted by JenniferG
1) Within like 15 seconds I can transform the Redford Stack into Si Stebbens and back to Redford with the exact same formula and 15 seconds.  This opens up a huge amount of circular / mathematical stack tricks which can't be done with non circular memdeck.


That would be a benefit if you plan to do a 10 hours card magic show in a row.
So, that's a personal decision that depends on what do you plan to do.
Simon Aronson agreed that there are not better stack than other provided that you use it well.
So it is a matter of decision, not a matter of which is "best."

Quote:
Originally Posted by JenniferG
The Stay Stack you are in before you get into Mnemonica (i.e. 4 out faro from European NDO) is not memorized at all...

Is not memorised if you don't memorise it.
I did memorise Mnemonica Stay Stack as well a decade ago.


Quote:
Originally Posted by JenniferG
..., and it is so much harder getting into from Mnemonica, having to do a tabled routine discarding 36 cards to undo a faro, then reverse top 26 cards.

It is not a matter of being hard, but a matter of creativity and imagination; I have always used the Mnemonica proces to do different card tricks presentations. Some of them described in my personal book of card magic.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JenniferG


3) Can get into Si Stebbens in like 20 seconds from US New Deck Order.  And then from there like 10 seconds to get into Redford.  I really love that it's only two faros.

Why being so in hurry?
Personaly I prefer 4 faros, since it looks like more shuffled.
By the way, my personal record is 4 faros in 30 seconds.

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JenniferG

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Reply with quote  #4 
For my personal needs, I like being able to transform deck standing up.  I have circulation issues and do better standing up.  So Redford is good for my needs.  Glad mnemonica does everything you need.  It's a great stack of course.  I love his book; learning a lot from it.
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Paco Nagata

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Reply with quote  #5 
Jennifer, have you read this great essay by Doug Dyment?

It's very good and worth to have a look.

A great overview and evaluation about stacks and mem decks.

https://www.deceptionary.com/aboutstacks.html

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Chi Han

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Reply with quote  #6 
Quote:
Originally Posted by JenniferG
Si Stebbens really does have it all doesn't it?  Can be a memdeck, say choose queen of hearts as card #1.  Circular/Mathematical.  Tetradistic.  Can easily be transformed into stay stack doing a routine simply reversing 26 cards.  And is red/black alternating. 

I guess the only drawback is the repeating pattern.  But to be honest, I bet 95% of laymen wouldn't even notice the pattern.

Tempted to just go with Si Stebbens as memdeck so I don't even have to transform the Redford into circular and back 😋



Like most cyclical stacks it's missing a few things.  Knowing the position of each individual card for instance.  You might be interested in mathematical stacks like the Osterlind stack if you want to get around that problem, and avoid needing to memorise another stack.
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JenniferG

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Reply with quote  #7 
Osterland isn't tetradistic 😉
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JenniferG

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Reply with quote  #8 
Si Stebbens can be a memdeck as well if you assign a card #1
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JenniferG

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Reply with quote  #9 
Besides Si Stebbens, what stacks can be 1) a memdeck 2) circular/matheatical and 3) tetradistic.
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RayJ

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Reply with quote  #10 
I don't think anyone linked this yet, but since many here are diving deeply into stacked and memorized deck magic, this is something that you must read.  Aronson certainly was a pioneer and his work should be studied.  Whether you choose his stack or not.

http://simonaronson.com/Memories%20Are%20Made%20of%20This.pdf
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Alan Smithee

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Reply with quote  #11 
Quote:
Originally Posted by JenniferG
Si Stebbens can be a memdeck as well if you assign a card #1


Yes it can and that's what I do. Also worth considering is a Reverse Stebbins. This puts the fourth card at a matching number and helps with locating a named card.

Example, if the fourth card is the ace of diamonds, the eighth card is the two of diamonds and so on It's just a case of dividing by four to locate a particular diamond. If you want to know the 37th card, divide by four to get nine, with a remainder of one.

The 36th card is the nine of diamonds. 

Normally the 37th card would be the queen of clubs, but this is the reverse faro, so it's the card before the nine of diamonds: six of spades.

I'm too entrenched in the regular Stebbins to consider the reverse Stebbins, but it's something to consider. 
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Alan Smithee

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Reply with quote  #12 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paco Nagata

By the way, my personal record is 4 faros in 30 seconds.


That's very very good. As I think I've noted elsewhere, as a "staying-in-training" exercise I did 100 faros every day for a year. That was 48 out-faros followed by 52 in-faros. It took me an average of 20 minutes.

Over a year, that's (what else) 36,500. Or 36,600 for a leap year. And umpteen hours in total.

Magicians eh? [smile]
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