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EVILDAN

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Reply with quote  #51 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Logan Five


If you were me, how would you deal with it ?

Logan,


I'd send all your money to me. My paypal is: evildan@prodigy.net

Time for a story:
Back when I was in my mid-30's, I was still living at home with my parents because both my older and younger brothers got married, moved out of the house, and weren't talking to my parents. I felt like I was the only hope for them to attend one of their son's weddings, have grandkids and all the other trappings of a "normal life."

One day I get this feeling that things are shifting. I tell my parents I think they're going to be coming home. Sure enough about a month later both my brothers knock at the door. They were expecting a knock down drag out fight with me for some reason. Instead, I started filling them in on what's been going on with the family for the past 8 years or so. At one point I said our grandfather (who we called Dzied - sounds like Jed or Jeyd) died last year.

My younger brother, who always claims to see ghosts, spirits and other things that go bump in the night, asked if he died last year around the end of October or the beginning of November. I checked the funeral card and it was the beginning of November. I asked if he saw the obituary. He said, "No, I saw Dzied."

He was working security at a chain lumber yard and doing his rounds. He saw someone go around a pallet. No one should be in the yard but him. He drove his golf cart to the spot, took out his big flashlight (yeah, I know....armed to the teeth) and since he saw him go around the pallet from the left, he went around the pallet from the right.

"As I turned the corner I saw this little old man standing in front of me. And I just looked at him. And you know how you look at someone and you just KNOW who they are. Well, I took one step forward and said, Dzied? And he vanished from the feet up just like special effects in a movie. And that's when I knew he was dead."

Now, my brother has taken a lot of drugs in his short high school years. He's done lots of trips. I attribute all he sees as acid flashbacks.

BUT.

BUT, he nailed the date of our grandfather's death by seeing his ghost.

How do I explain that? If he was off a few months maybe.

But he NAILED the date down to a few days.

I'm a skeptic. But I keep an open mind.

Other weird things have happened but I have four minutes and I'm outta work.

Later.
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Mind Phantom

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Reply with quote  #52 
One example that I mean by "mystical " is that, and there are many others, about 20 years I was laying in my bed, I wasn't asleep..just laying there. It was dark.

When all of a sudden this thing jumped on me, I could tell it was female for some reason, and it was reptilian and she was very strong and her hands pushed me into the bed so I couldn't move. Like I said, she was very strong and powerful.

Her hands were more like claws then hands. This thing as I call it also wore some type of metal breastplate. Then once she had me under her control, she proceeded to " dry hump " me. I couldn't move at all.

This being was physical and real. I'll never forget it. This was about 20 years ago when I didn't have internet so I really couldn't research what happened to me. Later I learned about a being called a Succubus. This described my experience with that " thing " almost exactly. I know it sounds crazy, but  that's what happened to me.

After I was able to move in the bed, she just disappeared. Crazy, I know. It wasn't a dream and I wasn't on meds. So, how do explain that ? I don't know. I had never heard the term Succubus when this happened. This is one of many " mystical " experiences I have had in my life. I have about 6 or 7 other stories that I can tell you about. I can't make up a story like this, it has to happen to you.

Logan,

 



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EVILDAN

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Reply with quote  #53 
When I was younger we used to live with my grandparents. The house was a railcar house.
Enter through the kitchen (bath and pantry to the left of the kitchen. Right side of house was a hallway. 2 rooms were off to the left of the hallway. House ended in a living room and the other door to the house.

Since it was so small, me or my older brother would sleep on the couch in the living room.
There used to be this black cloaked figure that hung out at the top of the ceiling near the corners. I used to see it looking, pointing and laughing at me. When I ducked under the covers it would get on top of me and try to smother me to death.

To this day, I don't know if it was real, overactive imagination, or if I was in a dream/trance state when this happened. I almost forgot about this until the movie Babadook came out. The Babadook looks like the thing that would be after me.

Makes me wonder if the Babadook is based on real experiences.
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Anthony Vinson

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Reply with quote  #54 
Sounds like a classic Incubus encounter, usually attributed, at least these days, to something known as sleep paralysis. I, too, have experienced sleep paralysis and it is frightening. It's been many years since the last encounter, but I can easily recall the terrifying feeling of helplessness. Hope it never happens again!

Might I recommend that you pick up a copy of Carl Sagan's book, The Demon Haunted World - Science as a Candle in the Dark. Not to change your mind, but rather to give you greater insight into the skeptical point of view. Dr. Sagan even writes about Incubus encounters. His writing is nonjudgmental and penetrating. He asks questions and encourages the reader to explore the answers. I've read it several times and will no doubt read it again.

Another one to consider is James Randi's Flim-Flam! Psychics, ESP, Unicorns, and Other Delusions. Randi is far more pointed and attacking than Sagan, but the book is worth reading. 

Skepticism, above all, is a philosophy; a tool by which to navigate an often uncertain and inexplicable world.
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EVILDAN

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Reply with quote  #55 
Anthony!
Thank you.
That's the other thing I thought it was, but couldn't think of it....sleep paralysis.
I can still remember being on that couch in my grandparent's house, trying to scream...and nothing coming out. Not a breath.
And then I'd gasp for air as I was released.

Again, was this real? Imagined? Something else? I can explain it a million different ways but in my heart I don't know which is the truth.
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Mind Phantom

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Reply with quote  #56 
Thanks,

I will get the Carl Sagan book..looks interesting. I too in the past have had sleep paralysis so, I cant rule that out, but I couldn't move while this being had it's way with me. I don't know if I couldn't move because the being was pushing me into the bed or- if I was experiencing sleep paralysis, I believe at the time that I wasn't sleeping.

EVILDAN,

Art Bell called these beings " Shadowpeople " if I remember correctly. I saw a shadow being at my uncle's deathbed in the Hospital, I know, crazy. I haven't seen one since then.

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John Cowne

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Reply with quote  #57 
I think there is a healthy skepticism. What I would call the unhealthy variety is ‘cynicism’. Cynicism is when a mind has blocked off any ability to process new data that challenges an old presupposition. Scientists, however, need to be ‘skeptical’ when they evaluate their own conclusions. That’s what makes ‘good science’. A good experiment needs to be ‘falsifiable’; that is, what the scientist is trying to ‘prove’ should also be able to be disproven...if the facts lead in that direction! Good science requires humility; cynicism is not humble. That seems to be behind a trend for scientists to talk about ‘paradigms’, rather than theories; it accepts the possibility that a good idea can be built on, rather than just thrown away when a new idea surfaces. This post has made me think about how skepticism relates to the ‘magic’ that brought us to the Magician’s Forum to begin with. I want to encourage my audience to be as (playfully) skeptical of what they are watching as they like. But cynicism is a joy-killer. How do you deal with cynics in your shows?
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John Cowne

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Reply with quote  #58 
Quote:
Originally Posted by EVILDAN
When I was younger we used to live with my grandparents. The house was a railcar house.
Enter through the kitchen (bath and pantry to the left of the kitchen. Right side of house was a hallway. 2 rooms were off to the left of the hallway. House ended in a living room and the other door to the house.

Since it was so small, me or my older brother would sleep on the couch in the living room.
There used to be this black cloaked figure that hung out at the top of the ceiling near the corners. I used to see it looking, pointing and laughing at me. When I ducked under the covers it would get on top of me and try to smother me to death.

To this day, I don't know if it was real, overactive imagination, or if I was in a dream/trance state when this happened. I almost forgot about this until the movie Babadook came out. The Babadook looks like the thing that would be after me.

Makes me wonder if the Babadook is based on real experiences.
I found Babadook a really disturbing movie...I think it locked into a lot a people’s childhood memories. Did you see the alternate ending on the DVD? I think the milk ‘offering’ was somehow more chilling than the worms!
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Senor Fabuloso

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Reply with quote  #59 
Unless there are practitioners of REAL magic (no need for the k) here, with an understanding of metaphysics, I think the opinions being expressed are just that OPINIONS, and are of little to no value, for those seeking truth.

Of course that's just my opinion and who cares, what I think?

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Anthony Vinson

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Reply with quote  #60 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Senor Fabuloso
Unless there are practitioners of REAL magic (no need for the k) here, with an understanding of metaphysics, I think the opinions being expressed are just that OPINIONS, and are of little to no value, for those seeking truth.

Of course that's just my opinion and who cares, what I think?


Tautology much? 

Truths are subjective. Unless, that is, they are based on evidence obtained through rigorous testing, consistent duplication, and review. The process is exhaustive and never-ending.

Metaphysics, as philosophical study, are worthwhile pursuits as they often lead to greater understanding. As a substitute for science? Not so much. Anything beyond the realm of human perception is untestable and therefore incapable of being established as true or truthful. Once perceptible and testable, any such phenomena becomes natural, and subject to physical cause and effect. To those truly seeking truths, the scientific method cannot be beat as both map and compass. To those seeking confirmation...

Senor, I have little doubt that you believe what you profess, and I'm cool with that. Should you turn out to be correct, I would be tickled. How cool would it be to discover some new, previously only speculative, realm beyond normal human perception? Pretty cool. Until supported by evidence and sustained by rigorous testing, we should all remain skeptical.

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Deckster

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Reply with quote  #61 
Do you think being a magician affords one an interesting perspective in this world? It neither has to be that of skeptic nor believer to see how something can be presented to be what it is not.

The willingness of spectators to believe a magician has special powers tells you something right there.

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Anthony Vinson

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Reply with quote  #62 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deckster
Do you think being a magician affords one an interesting perspective in this world? It neither has to be that of skeptic nor believer to see how something can be presented to be what it is not.

The willingness of spectators to believe a magician has special powers tells you something right there.



Of course. Being ::anything:: offers interesting perspective. As magicians we are practiced at the art of deception - yep, that there's an intentional Rolling Stone's reference. That perspective, however, does not render us incapable of being duped or misled or conned or falling for pseudoscience. It can, and does, happen to us all.  

Skepticism is a philosophy by which beliefs are withheld in abeyance of sufficient evidence to support them. Without evidence, there's no good reason to believe a thing.

The willingness of spectators to suspend disbelief tells us a great many things. Are you referring to something specific?

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RayJ

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Reply with quote  #63 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deckster
Do you think being a magician affords one an interesting perspective in this world? It neither has to be that of skeptic nor believer to see how something can be presented to be what it is not.

The willingness of spectators to believe a magician has special powers tells you something right there.



I'll say this much. There are people that, through circumstances, WANT to believe in the supernatural. For example, it is a fact that people have spent their last dollar chasing cures for terminal medical conditions. The money often goes to faith healers of ill repute including those that practice "psychic surgery". These dishonest "surgeons" are charlatans and actually use magical principles to deceive. They drape a cloth over the person and purport to remove tumors, etc. when examined later the tumor turns out to be from a livestock animal of course. Comedian Andy Kaufman succumbed to this ruse. It didn't cure him nor has it cured anyone else.

Some are gullible, some are not. Skepticism is healthy. Blind faith can be deadly when that faith is misplaced.

History is replete with examples.
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John Cowne

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Reply with quote  #64 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Senor Fabuloso
Unless there are practitioners of REAL magic (no need for the k) here, with an understanding of metaphysics, I think the opinions being expressed are just that OPINIONS, and are of little to no value, for those seeking truth.

Of course that's just my opinion and who cares, what I think?
Fair call. Although, I think sharing (even unfounded) opinions can make us question our own assumptions. AND we get an insight into another human. I’m thinking of all the ‘opinions’ that people have of how we do our tricks. It adds to my fun.
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John Cowne

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Reply with quote  #65 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deckster
Do you think being a magician affords one an interesting perspective in this world? It neither has to be that of skeptic nor believer to see how something can be presented to be what it is not.

The willingness of spectators to believe a magician has special powers tells you something right there.

I think it definitely gives us an interesting perspective on people. So far, it’s only kids that I’ve had to reinforce that it’s not ‘supernatural’ powers that I use. My goal is to let them experience the ‘Wowfactor’ and let them play fantasy for a while. And you’re right that our magical moments don’t necessarily require anyone to make a choice between skeptic and believer. I would hope that both are able to enjoy magic
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