Sign up Latest Topics Chat
 
 
 


Reply
  Author   Comment  
PressureFan

Member
Registered:
Posts: 24
Reply with quote  #1 

I’m curious how long it takes others to set up a shuffled deck into their memorized deck in-hands. I’m not talking about setting it up in view of anyone. Just out of sight without using a surface.

I'm just under two minutes if you're curious too.

Thanks,

PressureFan

0
Chi Han

Honored Member
Registered:
Posts: 1,041
Reply with quote  #2 
I used to do Sam the Bellhop in about 30 seconds to a minute.  Then again there are a lot of advantages of that, including that suit order doesn't matter except for the last 5 cards.
0
PressureFan

Member
Registered:
Posts: 24
Reply with quote  #3 

Here’s some more information if anyone is curious about getting a deck into a cyclical stack in-hands, which is extremely practical. If you need to set or reset a deck you can duck out of sight for a couple of minutes and assemble it. If I could hold my breath for two minutes I could do it in an outhouse.

With Bro. John Hamman’s Chinese Shuffle I can get a deck into new deck or a cyclical stack in (my best time) one minute and forty seconds.
See; “The Secrets of Brother John Hamman”, Kaufman.

With Card Setting I can get the deck into new deck order in just under two minutes
See; “Shoot Ogawa Busters 3
Shoot also teaches how to use Card Setting to put the deck into Si Stebbins with two additional Faro Shuffles.

Thanks for watching,

PressureFan

0
rouxnapse

Inner Circle
Registered:
Posts: 16
Reply with quote  #4 
Patrick Redford goes over the Chinese Shuffle (and two tricks to mask it) in his book Temporarily Out Of Order. It is a wonderful book and the Redford stack is my new primary stack (over the Tamariz stack). To each their own, but I feel the Redford stack suits me better.

Rouxnapse
0
Dave Campbell

Inner Circle
Registered:
Posts: 216
Reply with quote  #5 
Quote:
Originally Posted by rouxnapse
Patrick Redford goes over the Chinese Shuffle (and two tricks to mask it) in his book Temporarily Out Of Order. It is a wonderful book and the Redford stack is my new primary stack (over the Tamariz stack). To each their own, but I feel the Redford stack suits me better.

Rouxnapse


I'm a big Redford Stack fan myself. And if you have a good way to get into Si Stebbins -- you can go back and forth in seconds between Stebbins and RS.

Good stuff!

__________________

-=Dave
0
rouxnapse

Inner Circle
Registered:
Posts: 16
Reply with quote  #6 
Hi Dave,

At risk of sounding like a noob, do you have a faster way of getting into Si Stebbins without the Chinese shuffle? I never focused much on Si Stebbins when I was getting into stack and memdeck work.

I'm actually quite new to Redford's material. Does he have other stack work hidden in some of his other works?

Rouxnapse
0
Dave Campbell

Inner Circle
Registered:
Posts: 216
Reply with quote  #7 
no I don't … Patrick has some clocking techniques for getting into his stack, and they work, I've seen people post that they can do that do it in 1-1/2 minutes -- but you're not going to do that in front of people... sounds like you have the book, so you're aware of that -- are you also in the private FB page? People have posted lots of good stuff there.

I've used Bob Farmer's marking from the Tarodiction Toolbox and marked a deck or two for RS -- using those markings with info in Bob's book I can hit about 1-1/2 minutes Face down... not all that bad, but I would want to do that ahead of time, not in the middle of anything 😉

__________________

-=Dave
0
Dave Campbell

Inner Circle
Registered:
Posts: 216
Reply with quote  #8 
Quote:
Originally Posted by rouxnapse

At risk of sounding like a noob,
Rouxnapse


Forgot to say...

No questions are out of place!

__________________

-=Dave
0
Bob Farmer

Honored Member
Registered:
Posts: 222
Reply with quote  #9 
The Chinese Shuffle isn't very efficient as it is binary. Much more advanced techniques are explained in my book, The Bammo Tarodiction Toolbox--and my techniques can be used with any stack--and there is no memorization required, but you need a table. Under two minutes with any stack is easy.

Email Bammomagic@cogeco.ca for more information. 
0
Dave Campbell

Inner Circle
Registered:
Posts: 216
Reply with quote  #10 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Farmer
The Chinese Shuffle isn't very efficient as it is binary. Much more advanced techniques are explained in my book, The Bammo Tarodiction Toolbox--and my techniques can be used with any stack--and there is no memorization required, but you need a table. Under two minutes with any stack is easy.

Email Bammomagic@cogeco.ca for more information. 


Oops -- sorry, forgot the subject on this was "In-hands only"

__________________

-=Dave
0
rouxnapse

Inner Circle
Registered:
Posts: 16
Reply with quote  #11 
Quote:
no I don't … Patrick has some clocking techniques for getting into his stack, and they work, I've seen people post that they can do that do it in 1-1/2 minutes -- but you're not going to do that in front of people... sounds like you have the book, so you're aware of that -- are you also in the private FB page? People have posted lots of good stuff there.


Where does he teach the clocking techniques? I'm ashamed to say that TOOO is all I have of Patrick's and the only clocking I've seen is from Harry Lorayne's Classics Vol 1.

I completely forgot about the FB group. I'll check that out tonight, thanks!
0
Mike Powers

Avatar / Picture

Honored Member
Registered:
Posts: 1,716
Reply with quote  #12 
Stebbins from new deck order is quick. Redford details a method that's similar to Darwin O's method.


Mike
0
luvisi

Inner Circle
Registered:
Posts: 110
Reply with quote  #13 
FYI, most of the methods discussed here are variations on the radix sort. Anyone wanting to understand how these methods work, or design their own, should check out The Art of Computer Programming, volume 3, Sorting and Searching.

Andru
0
Steven Youell

Avatar / Picture

Honored Member
Registered:
Posts: 799
Reply with quote  #14 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Powers
Stebbins from new deck order is quick. Redford details a method that's similar to Darwin O's method.

I can use Darwin's method and have a memorized stack from NDO done in 30 seconds flat. It looks like an overhand shuffle.
Ed Marlo published a method similar to Darwin's method as well.

I believe I was the first one who published the idea of using the Si Stebbins set up as a memorized stack.

__________________
 
0
Dave Campbell

Inner Circle
Registered:
Posts: 216
Reply with quote  #15 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steven Youell

I can use Darwin's method and have a memorized stack from NDO done in 30 seconds flat. It looks like an overhand shuffle.
Ed Marlo published a method similar to Darwin's method as well.

I believe I was the first one who published the idea of using the Si Stebbins set up as a memorized stack.


ok -- I'm pulling "Strong Magic" off the shelf and heading to the other room!

- oops good reference, but not the right reference [frown]

__________________

-=Dave
0
Mike Powers

Avatar / Picture

Honored Member
Registered:
Posts: 1,716
Reply with quote  #16 
Darwin's method for getting into Stebbins from new deck is in "At the Card Table."

Mike
0
alicauchy

Avatar / Picture

Inner Circle
Registered:
Posts: 118
Reply with quote  #17 
Quote:
Originally Posted by luvisi
FYI, most of the methods discussed here are variations on the radix sort. Anyone wanting to understand how these methods work, or design their own, should check out The Art of Computer Programming, volume 3, Sorting and Searching.

Andru


Wow, I didn't  expect to see Prof Knuth's books cited in this thread.

In fact, the problem is a matter of fast sorting. The faster algorithms you know, the better.

__________________
So much to do, so little time !!
0
rouxnapse

Inner Circle
Registered:
Posts: 16
Reply with quote  #18 
Quote:
Originally Posted by alicauchy


Wow, I didn't  expect to see Prof Knuth's books cited in this thread.

In fact, the problem is a matter of fast sorting. The faster algorithms you know, the better.


Now this is starting to sound like speed cubing! Lol are the faster algorithms contained within Prof Knuth's books? Don't say new algs to a nerd and not expect to need to direct to them lol

Rouxnapse
0
Dave Campbell

Inner Circle
Registered:
Posts: 216
Reply with quote  #19 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Powers
Darwin's method for getting into Stebbins from new deck is in "At the Card Table."

Mike


I had figured that out and was about to buy the appropriate DVD when I got to thinking that when I go to stack my deck, the number of times I want to do that from FASDIU is WAY greater than NDO. I'm hardly ever in NDO.

So I'll stick with Bob Farmer's coding as I mentioned earlier in the thread.

__________________

-=Dave
0
rouxnapse

Inner Circle
Registered:
Posts: 16
Reply with quote  #20 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Campbell
I had figured that out and was about to buy the appropriate DVD when I got to thinking that when I go to stack my deck, the number of times I want to do that from FASDIU is WAY greater than NDO. I'm hardly ever in NDO.


I agree - I've only ever set Redford Stack up from a shuffled deck. Maybe one day we'll get decks being released in RS like some have come out in Mnemonica. Pretty sure my Knights deck was in mnemonica order (or I'm making that one up but some have definitely been released in a stack order)

Rouxnapse
0
Bob Farmer

Honored Member
Registered:
Posts: 222
Reply with quote  #21 
My favorite in-the-hands-only method for stacking a deck is to switch decks. This is much faster than any other method.
0
rouxnapse

Inner Circle
Registered:
Posts: 16
Reply with quote  #22 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Farmer
My favorite in-the-hands-only method for stacking a deck is to switch decks. This is much faster than any other method


Patrick Redford delivers a great trick with a deck switch (FASDIU to whatever you want) in his book! (disclaimer: i get no financial incentive for being a fanboy 😋 )


0
rouxnapse

Inner Circle
Registered:
Posts: 16
Reply with quote  #23 
Slightly different question, but is the fastest way to setup a half stack? - just stripping/culling cards out?
0
PressureFan

Member
Registered:
Posts: 24
Reply with quote  #24 

To be honest, I’m surprised at how little feedback I'm getting about second deals and mouth coils. Maybe I’m getting off topic. Doesn’t anyone here know how to replace the flint in a Funkenring?

0
Bobby Forbes

Member
Registered:
Posts: 11
Reply with quote  #25 
I think as far as in the hands only methods go, the one Shoot Ogawa teaches in "Busters" is pretty good.  It's fairly straight forward with no difficult algorithms to remember.  I'm also a fan of the chinese shuffle.  I use that to set up Si Stebbins quite a bit.  Shoots method is fastest when sorting a deck into new deck order IMO.  It gets a little more complicated when using a mem deck or cyclical stack. When i was starting out with mem deck stuff i would separate the deck into reds and blacks, then just quickly scan through the deck and slide each card in sequence to the face of the pack.  The separated colors helps me quickly determine which half of the pack to scan through for each card.  Usually took about a minute and a half.  Still not bad.  
0
PressureFan

Member
Registered:
Posts: 24
Reply with quote  #26 

Bobby, thanks for sharing.

The first time I saw Card Setting was a video of the four person contest posted by, I think, Wizards’ Inn. I was blown away. I don’t think the video is online anymore. A pity.
I had an eBay alert and Google search open for about six years before I found a copy of Busters 3 that wasn’t counterfeit. It features a video of Card Setting record holder Kunihiko Teradai. Shuffled deck to new deck order in 37 seconds. It’s beautiful to see.

I asked Shoot Ogawa about Card Setting at a lecture and he covered some of the thinking behind it, especially sorting two suits at once. I can sort the last two suits at the same time but it’s not pretty.

I’m surprised more people don’t favor an in-hands method for putting decks in order. Especially for new deck order.

0
pnielan

Inner Circle
Registered:
Posts: 114
Reply with quote  #27 
I've written before that this is a great test of how well you know your stack. Time yourself putting a shuffled deck into new deck order. Then time again putting a shuffled deck in to your stack. If those two times differ by much, then you have more work to do on your stack familiarity.  As an aside, I can memorize any random deck order in 3 to 8 minutes using mnemonics, but putting a shuffled deck into that random order takes much longer than putting it in to my stack.

(I used mnemonics to initialize memorize my go-to performance stack, but the card-number mnemonic relationships have mostly dropped away over the years. I still use the original card mnemonics to memorize a random deck order (or some portion thereof) as a stunt.)
0
Mike Powers

Avatar / Picture

Honored Member
Registered:
Posts: 1,716
Reply with quote  #28 
Pit Hartling fooled everyone at 4F one year with a mem deck that had been overhand shuffled by a spectator. A quick overhand shuffle keeps large chunks of cards in stack order. You just have to rearrange the blocks. He did it really quickly and no one noticed. At the end what happened seemed impossible. The deck had been shuffled! It couldn't be in mem order...

I realize that this discussion is about getting into mem order from a thoroughly shuffled deck but the story seemed worth mentioning.


Mike
0
Cardsharperimage

Member
Registered:
Posts: 2
Reply with quote  #29 
Asi's new Lecture notes detail a method for getting into stay stack from FASDIU which is based off of a Tamariz idea. Personally if I'm stacking in performance, I choose to do it in the context of a trick, a call to colors, which is in Mnemonica. I will cull the required cards (usually 10-26 of the stack) and then do the routine. This is the most nonchalant way I know of stacking under noses.

For those also interested in more of Pit's work on mem decks, "In Order to Amaze" is an incredible read. Specifically there is a routine called "Sherlock" that details how to get back into stack after the cards have been riffle shuffled by a spectator. Fascinating stuff.

Finally, and certainly not least, is "Roger's Thesaurus" by Justin Higham. Detailed within are ways to get into the stack you want within the context of a full routine. It's described to be able to get to a 4 mate deck, but you can apply those concepts to just about any stack, provided the grey matter is there 😋
0
Previous Topic | Next Topic
Print
Reply

Quick Navigation:

Easily create a Forum Website with Website Toolbox.