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Rudy Tinoco

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Reply with quote  #1 
Hi Fellas,

I found this cute little set of shot glasses at shop in Newberg, Oregon. They come in a little leather case. I felt like they could be used for a mini chop cup routine and recently purchased some "Perfect Peas" to work out a routine.

I was researching to see what routines are already out there. Pipo Villanueva has a routine but it requires a chop cup.
https://www.vanishingincmagic.com/magic-downloads/card-magic-downloads/minicup-balls/

Are you aware of any good mini cup routines?

Rudy



IMG_4049.jpg  IMG_1749.jpg  IMG_6509.jpg


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Anthony Vinson

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Someone out there does a routine using those small, shot glass-size Solo cups, but for the life of me I cannot recall where I saw or read about it. If it clicks, I'll let you know.

David Regal does a routine using the old magic kit plastic cups and fuzz balls. (Someone else did as well... John Carney? Hm. My memory is on vacation this afternoon.) At any rate, David's routine, which he calls Cups & Balls & Cups & Balls, begins with small cups and progresses to larger ones. Even so, you might pick up some tips from the part using smaller cups.

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RayJ

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Reply with quote  #3 
Rudy, when they are nested, how do they stack?  Is there any room in the attic?  I'm assuming putting even a soft ball, like a pompon would cause them to wobble or stack unevenly.  So that is a drawback.  At least they have dimpled tops.

I would say that a routine with olives would make sense as they are barware.  You can get rubber olives.  Then as a finish you can produce a shot.  Easy enough with a rubber cover.  Do a large load and then under cover of misdirection do a switch.
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RayJ

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Reply with quote  #4 
BTW, don't forget you can use a PK ring in order to effectively perform a chop cup routine with those cups.  
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RayJ

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Reply with quote  #5 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anthony Vinson
Someone out there does a routine using those small, shot glass-size Solo cups, but for the life of me I cannot recall where I saw or read about it. If it clicks, I'll let you know.

David Regal does a routine using the old magic kit plastic cups and fuzz balls. (Someone else did as well... John Carney? Hm. My memory is on vacation this afternoon.) At any rate, David's routine, which he calls Cups & Balls & Cups & Balls, begins with small cups and progresses to larger ones. Even so, you might pick up some tips from the part using smaller cups.

Av 


In addition, Mike Skinner was fond of doing the Rub-a-Dub-Dub Three Men in Three Tubs routine.  He used the plastic cups.  I learned it from Harry Monti.  It is great, not too long and the rhyming patter is cute and follows the actions perfectly.
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jim ferguson

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Reply with quote  #6 
Those are very nice, Rudy.

There is a nice routine using a squash ball (it might actually be called squash), although I can't remember who actually put it out.
It uses a clear shot glass, which is wrapped in paper, and two squash balls. At the end the glass vanishes from within the paper (or you could do the table top penetration bit).

You'd have to come up with a reason for wrapping the glass in paper though. In the original the reason is built in as the glass is see through.

You could add a magnet to one to give it a chop feature. This doesn't have to be complicated - I've seen a few routines where folk have gone to a lot of trouble to hide/disguise the magnet, yet never show the inside of the cup during performance.
In some cases a magnet simply glued to the bottom would suffice.


Jim

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Rudy Tinoco

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Reply with quote  #7 
Quote:
Originally Posted by RayJ
BTW, don't forget you can use a PK ring in order to effectively perform a chop cup routine with those cups.  


That is a great thought! Why didn't I think of that? 😉
I also like the idea of using olives.

I just tried nesting them with two small items... a button and a gem (picture below). The gem was too big and the button was fine. Even sounded like there was some room between it and the top of the cup.

Hopefully the "Perfect Peas" have enough give that they work. It also allows me to use some of the traditional "three shell" moves to my advantage.

Thanks for your input, Ray!

Rudy

IMG_9193.jpg 


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Rudy Tinoco

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Reply with quote  #8 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anthony Vinson
Someone out there does a routine using those small, shot glass-size Solo cups, but for the life of me I cannot recall where I saw or read about it. If it clicks, I'll let you know.

David Regal does a routine using the old magic kit plastic cups and fuzz balls. (Someone else did as well... John Carney? Hm. My memory is on vacation this afternoon.) At any rate, David's routine, which he calls Cups & Balls & Cups & Balls, begins with small cups and progresses to larger ones. Even so, you might pick up some tips from the part using smaller cups.

Av 


I remember seeing David Regal's cups and balls routine. Such a great presentation!
I'll check it out again.

Thanks Anthony!

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Axel

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Reply with quote  #9 
Hi Rudy!

What a nice finding, my friend!

How about small sponge balls? They are prefered by by (Chicago-)Bar-Magicians, no noise, some extra possibilities e.g. hiding one inside the cups by squeezing it into the inner rim etc...In Arcade Dreams by Jon Racherbaumer and Ed Marlo are some short and sweet routines (not especially with that small cups but I think they fit your needs...feel free to ask!)..and think there is a routine by Jim Ryan, don´t know where I have it, will look for it, perhaps it is also in Show-Time at Tom-Foolery, because I think this routine was passed from Jim Ryan to Tom Mullica, but not sure, have to look it up myself and let you know!

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Axel

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Reply with quote  #10 
..and there is a routine by R. Shane (Pentalogy, Automata, Tractare etc.) called The Sting, availlable through Lybrary.com , more a story-telling presentation that could perhaps inspire you...

All the best,

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Mbreggar

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Reply with quote  #11 
I’d suggest putting a small sponge ball in one cup and shots of Glenlivet in the other two cups. Drink the Glenlivet and ignore the cup with the sponge ball. Then refill the two Glenlivet cups, take the sponge ball out of the first cup. Drink the whiskey, Ernest the cups and walk away.

THAT’S magic!
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RayJ

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Reply with quote  #12 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mbreggar
I’d suggest putting a small sponge ball in one cup and shots of Glenlivet in the other two cups. Drink the Glenlivet and ignore the cup with the sponge ball. Then refill the two Glenlivet cups, take the sponge ball out of the first cup. Drink the whiskey, Ernest the cups and walk away.

THAT’S magic!


Yeah, but practicing that routine could lead to issues!
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SamtheNotasBadasIWas

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Reply with quote  #13 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rudy Tinoco


That is a great thought! Why didn't I think of that? 😉
I also like the idea of using olives.

I just tried nesting them with two small items... a button and a gem (picture below). The gem was too big and the button was fine. Even sounded like there was some room between it and the top of the cup.

Hopefully the "Perfect Peas" have enough give that they work. It also allows me to use some of the traditional "three shell" moves to my advantage.

Thanks for your input, Ray!

Rudy

IMG_9193.jpg 


The space could probably be increased somewhat by judiciously bending in the very edge of the rims. Rolling the edges would create even more space, but would be harder to do.

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RayJ

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Reply with quote  #14 
OK, since we're spitballing ideas here, I'll share a couple.  For many years stores such as Target and Bed Bath and Beyond have been selling really nice looking cups (tumblers) for bathroom use.

Alternate image 1 for NuSteel Chic Tumbler

Some are quite heavy and have a very substantial feel in the hand.  These can easily be chopped by gluing a magnet in the bottom and then camouflaging it.  Your arts and crafts skill can come into play here but a simple way would be to use an epoxy and cover over the magnet and let the epoxy build up until it covers the magnet.  Many epoxies have a relatively low viscosity and will "self level".  After the epoxy sets you have some options.  If you are lucky, you might be able to paint over it with a silver enamel paint and have it match the interior pretty close.  If that isn't practical, then use a flat black Krylon and spray the entire interior.  Obviously you want the interior clean, dry and free of oils.  Easy enough to mask the outside with paper and tape.  Instant chop cup.  You will have to experiment first in order to determine what strength of magnet to use.  Then you have to make sure that the magnet in the cup works smoothly with the magnet in the ball, olive, etc.

This process could be done with the extra cup from Rudy's set.  If you go the painted interior route, you'd have to paint them all for uniformity's sake. 

Some of these bathroom tumblers are non-ferrous and will not attract magnets (a good thing!).  I've seen several in pewter, for example.  Those would be ideal.  There is no reason that you couldn't do the same with plastic or wooden tumblers, but you might have to adjust the method of "camouflaging"  to suit.

OK, for the last idea, impossible-looking loads are always fun to experiment with.  These include liquids as we've already discussed, but they also could include loose items that would seemingly be impossible to introduce under the cup in the course of a routine.  Since there is an extra cup, there are great opportunities to have fun and try different things.  

Obviously whatever is produced has to "fit" the routine and the cup!  So while we're on the "arts and crafts" roll, I'll share a method I've used to facilitate "strange" loads into cups, both large and small.

The idea came to me after reading a wonderful manuscript on the pocket chop cup written by John Snider.  Mike Powers also has a copy of this, I believe.  It is full of interesting ideas and complete routines.

One load that is mentioned in the book is how to produce a stack of loose coins under the cup.  Think of it, you do your chop cup routine and then produce a large load followed by a stack of maybe 25 half dollars.  They are then toppled, proving they aren't somehow "fastened" together.  Instant seque to your Matrix or whatever.  I won't detail John's method as it is not my right, but I will give the alternative that I came up with.

We've all heard of papier mache, right?  Well you can build an insert for the cup that fits perfectly and fashion it out of papier mache.  If you are creative at all you don't need any further guidance, but just in case, here is the process.  Stack up as many coins as you want to use.  Then wrap some cardboard around the coins to create a cylinder or tube.  Make sure it is not too tight nor too loose.  You want it pretty stiff.  Maybe some old playing cards would be good here.  Use a generous amount of tape to maintain the shape.  If there is a loose flap on the inside of the tube, now is the time to address it.  Tape or glue it down.  Now you simply mix up some papier mache and pack it inside of the cup to take on the shape of the cup's interior.  When you get a decent amount in there, add the tube, centering it and making it level with the mouth of the cup or slightly less.  Fill in around the tube and make sure there are no voids.  Let it dry.  Remove the "insert" after it has dried and you now have an almost-perfect gimmick to help load a loose stack of coins into the cup.  What you will want to do now is consider painting the gimmick.  You can go the flat black route or possibly consider flesh color.  It would depend upon whether you will work standing or seated to some degree.  Chances are it will never be seen if you are seated because in order to load it, you merely dip the cup down into your lap and stack it onto the gimmick and return to the table.  As you begin to lift the cup your little finger extends under the cup, trapping the coins to prevent them from falling out prematurely.  After the reveal you slide the cup the to the edge of the table and let go.  But if standing you might have to "palm" it out and go to your pocket.  With those small cups it is not too intimidating.  In this instance it would be best to paint it flesh color.

If you don't wish to paint the gimmick you'll probably at least want to seal it with something like clear Krylon I think.  If the insert is too snug in the cup, you can sand it down a little so it doesn't get jammed up and not release.

You can take this basic idea and use it for all sorts of loads.  Loose rice?  Pennies?  A flash gimmick or fire gimmick of some sort?

If you are wondering about the loose rice and/or pennies and how they stay in the gimmick, that is another bit of arts and crafts, but basically you construct a "lid" for the gimmick that can be removed AFTER it is set on the table.  It is a bit complicated to explain but essentially it is a flat disc that slides into and under a "receiver" that resembles a half-circle.  the exact size and shape of the "lid" is determined by the results of these next steps.  You cut a "C" shaped piece of plastic the thickness of the cover or lid.  This is glued to the bottom of the gimmick, the mough side.  This piece should be approximately 1/4" wide.  You then construct a similar piece, but this time it is at least 1/2" wide.  You glue it directly on top of the first one.  What this does is create a "channel" for the lid to slide into.  If sized properly it will seal very nicely but still come off easily.  The lid needs to have a "tab" on it that will project beyond the cup after it is loaded so you can grab it.  

The color of the lid should match your close up pad.  Black is obviously going to be the best and easiest.  It isn't seen for very long but still needs camouflage.  Black art works.

So in practice, you do your first "big finish load" and while everyone is reacting, you load the cup, place on the table and remove the lid by sliding it out.  Sounds like a lot, but with practice you can do it just as fast as you read it.

When the cup is lifted, the spectators cannot comprehend what happened or how it happened.

Remember, the papier mache insert can be adjusted based upon whatever your load will be.  You con't need the tube insert if you are using pennies or rice.  You might want a different "shape" to the interior of the gimmick in those cases.

You could even fashion a sort of Long pour salt gimmick within an insert and when you raise the cup you get a stream of salt or perhaps glitter?  

Let your imagination wander.

P.S.  There are lots of other things you can use to build the gimmick other than papier mache.  Expanding foam is one that I always wanted to try but never did.  You'd have to line the cup with plastic wrap or foil first as the foam will adhere to the inside of the cup and you'd never get it out.  You'd then have to paint the foam probably.  Oil-based paints would likely melt the foam so you'd be better off with a latex enamel.  Something water-based is safe.

The idea is that whatever material you use to make the gimmick it should be soft enough that there is no "talking" as you perform the load.  The gimmick could be covered in felt, for example, but you'd have to allow for the extra thickness in advance.  I'm sure it is doable with proper care and planning.

Have fun!
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Rudy Tinoco

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Reply with quote  #15 
Wow! Thanks for all these ideas, Ray! Very creative thinking. I’ve never seen anyone use paper mache to create a gimmick. The last time I ever created made paper mache was in kindergarten, when they had us make piñatas :)

When you mentioned using a PK ring in order to create an impromptu chop cup, I immediately grabbed my ring and the magnetic, red ball from my larger chop cup set and it worked fantastic! I’m going to purchase a set of magnetic peas today. https://www.penguinmagic.com/p/S6471

I appreciate you taking some time to share your thoughts and ideas with us! I appreciate it!

Rudy

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Rudy Tinoco

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Reply with quote  #16 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mbreggar
I’d suggest putting a small sponge ball in one cup and shots of Glenlivet in the other two cups. Drink the Glenlivet and ignore the cup with the sponge ball. Then refill the two Glenlivet cups, take the sponge ball out of the first cup. Drink the whiskey, Ernest the cups and walk away.

THAT’S magic!


Hahaha!!!

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RayJ

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Reply with quote  #17 
I could lie and say that all of those ideas came to me after trying Mbreggar's version of the trick, but I won't. [wink]
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Jim Straight

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Reply with quote  #18 
Mike Powers has a routine with creamer cups in his book Top Secret Stuff.  It has a couple interesting moves in it.  

Buy me a cup of coffee and I'll share the book with you...[smile][smile]
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Rudy Tinoco

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Reply with quote  #19 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Straight
Mike Powers has a routine with creamer cups in his book Top Secret Stuff.  It has a couple interesting moves in it.  

Buy me a cup of coffee and I'll share the book with you...[smile][smile]


Thanks for the tip, @Jim Straight I have this book on my shelf and will check it out.

I'll still buy you that cup of coffee though!

Rudy

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John Cowne

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Reply with quote  #20 
Quote:
Originally Posted by RayJ


Yeah, but practicing that routine could lead to issues!
Tea looks like whiskey, I’m told😉
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krolik

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¤14

My craft skills are almost nil but I really like the suggestions here for improbable final loads.
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SamtheNotasBadasIWas

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Reply with quote  #22 
Quote:
Originally Posted by krolik
¤14

My craft skills are almost nil but I really like the suggestions here for improbable final loads.


Walnuts
Super Bounce Balls
Magnetic Glitter

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SamtheNotasBadasIWas

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Reply with quote  #23 
Quote:
Originally Posted by John Cowne
Tea looks like whiskey, I’m told😉


More importantly, whiskey looks like tea...

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John Cowne

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Reply with quote  #24 
Quote:
Originally Posted by SamtheNotsoMagnificent


More importantly, whiskey looks like tea...
All those years...my mother....now I know why she never took milk!
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Bob Farmer

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Reply with quote  #25 
My routine would be perfect for this set:

https://www.lybrary.com/cyclops-p-922121.html

At one time, Morrissey Magic sold a mini chop cup and balls set, consisting of a chop cup and two matching cups. 
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